TLR v1.9 Beta - Map / Faction Start Discussion

[Lopus]

I think it's because Lubeck is simply the closest to their cities, even putting a general next to Oslo or Uppsala doesn't work, then just march down and go for Lubeck anyway. We can't remove Lubeck, because it was just about the most important town in Northern Europe for the entire Middle Ages, being the capital of the Hanseatic League and fought over by the Danes and the Saxons and the HRE when it was still pagan and even threatened during the later Teutonic Order/Polish-Lithuanian wars.

Might try giving Oslo to the Danes and thus moving their center of gravity further north. They might still take Lubeck first, but might focus attention on Stockholm and Uppsala afterwards, instead of working their way along the Baltic coast.

So they would be the "nordic peoples" Coalition instead of Denmark?

[Averroës]

Well that period was pretty much in flux as far as who controlled what in Scandinavia. Cnut II was King of Denmark from 1018-1035, but was also King of Norway from 1028-1035 and England from 1016-1025. And Magnus the Good of Norway was King of Norway from 1035-1046 but also King of Denmark from 1042-1046. And for various periods, Denmark controlled much of the Oslofjord regions like Vestfold directly across the Skagerak, while Norway consisted at times of only the Trondelag and Halogaland and the SW fjords of Rogaland and Sogn and such.

[Lopus]

I was just kidding, technically I suppose we could do that, since the Kings of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden did trade back and forth (Hardeknut lay claim to Denmark and Norway and England).

[Averroës]

It's more work for poor Tornnight though. I feel bad already.

[tornnight]

I'm going to remove the land bridge near copenhagen. That may do it.

[Lopus]

tornnight, I tried giving Hamburg to the independents and the Danes seem (I'm not certain, only 1 attempt) to head north after taking it. I will try other test runs later to make certain.

[tornnight]

Ohh I found a great website
http://www.crwflags.com/

[Lopus]

Torn, maybe we need to put back the land bridge between Iberia = North Africa and England = France and England = Ireland. In 10 games all basically end-turn so I am not doing anything for 100 turns (50 years), England will always go to war with France and Scotland. They will (normally 8/10) win against Scotland but lose against France (because most of the English army is stuck on England doing nothing). Likewise the Portuguese/Spanish Alliance will kick the Moors out of Iberia, then will either fight each other (3/10) or invade France (5/10) or sit there trying to be pretty (2/10).

Also, the army of Robert Guiscard should be moved closer to Durazzo (which most probably be given to Byzantium) to force a fight. As it is (9/10), Robert Guiscard takes a boat over to invade Brindisi while the rest of the Italo-Normans go after Naples and Spoleto. The remaining time (1/10), Guiscard goes after Venetian territory while the rest of his kin go after Naples, Spoleto, and Brindisi.

[tornnight]

Nope. Land Bridges gotta go.

I'm going to reduce costs of ships to help the AI.

Sicily and Byzantium start out at war, that should be enough. We can't customize every single battle the AI is going to make.
We don't want to recreate history exactly anyway.

What is important is that the factions are able to survive.

[Irishmafia2020]

The 1.1 patch had a change that increased naval invasions, has that been implemented in TLR?

[tornnight]

Yes. Actually it has been added to every faction. Most mods don't do that.

The AI uses it quite well. If anything they are limited right now by their economy.

[DimondLight]

The French and Milanese have come all the way to Iberia, Milan took Barcelona, and France took Pamplona and one more city I can't remember now.... everything seems pretty good right now.

[tornnight]

Whew..

Tentative Final List of Provinces.

Shiraz_Province
Shiraz
Basra_Province
Basra
Rasht_Province
Rasht
Rhages_Province
Rhages
Sari_Province
Sari
Konjikala_Province
Konjikala
Isfahan_Province
Isfahan
Yazd_Province
Yazd
Sakakah_Province
Sakakah
Amman_Province
Amman
Aqtobe_Province
Aqtobe
Bilar_Province
Bilar
Sarai_Province
Sarai
Beligrad_Province
Beligrad
Kalmar_Province
Kalmar
Coimbra_Province
Coimbra
Inverness_Province
Inverness
Aberdeen_Province
Aberdeen
Dumfries_Province
Dumfries
Oslo_Province
Oslo
Copenhagen_Province
Copenhagen
Uppsala_Province
Uppsala
Helsinki_Province
Helsinki
Novgorod_Province
Novgorod
Pskov_Province
Pskov
Moscow_Province
Moscow
Belo-Ozero_Province
Belo-Ozero
Volga-Bulgar_Province
Bulgar
Urganj_Province
Urganj
Viatka_Province
Viatka
Atil_Province
Atil
Riga_Province
Riga
Arhus_Province
Arhus
Edinburgh_Province
Edinburgh
Vilnius_Province
Vilnius
Smolensk_Province
Smolensk
Dublin_Province
Dublin
Wexford_Province
Wexford
Cork_Province
Cork
Donegal_Province
Donegal
York_Province
York
Ryazan_Province
Ryazan
Caernarvon_Province
Caernarvon
Thorn_Province
Thorn
Nottingham_Province
Nottingham
Stettin_Province
Stettin
Hamburg_Province
Hamburg
Lubeck_Province
Lubeck
Sarkel_Province
Sarkel
Azov_Province
Azov
Tmutarakan_Province
Tmutarakan
Samandar_Province
Samandar
Antwerp_Province
Antwerp
Magdeburg_Province
Magdeburg
Halych_Province
Halych
Peremyshl_Province
Peremyshl
Cracow_Province
Cracow
London_Province
London
Exeter_Province
Exeter
Southampton_Province
Southampton
Breslau_Province
Breslau
Kiev_Province
Kiev
Pereslawl_Province
Pereslawl
Tzernigov_Province
Tzernigov
Kozelsk_Province
Kozelsk
Turov_Province
Turov
Pinsk_Province
Pinsk
Jitomir_Province
Jitomir
Minsk_Province
Minsk
Bruges_Province
Bruges
Frankfurt_Province
Frankfurt
Metz_Province
Metz
Caen_Province
Caen
Prague_Province
Prague
Rheims_Province
Rheims
Nuremburg_Province
Nuremburg
Rennes_Province
Rennes
Paris_Province
Paris
Hohenstauffen_Province
Hohenstauffen
Iasi_Province
Iasi
Akkerman_Province
Akkerman
Buda_Province
Buda
Pest_Province
Pest
Pratis_Province
Pratis
Angers_Province
Angers
Bran_Province
Bran
Vienna_Province
Vienna
Caffa_Province
Caffa
Cherson_Province
Cherson
Bern_Province
Bern
Dijon_Province
Dijon
Innsbruck_Province
Innsbruck
Bordeaux_Province
Bordeaux
Poitiers_Province
Poitiers
Tbilisi_Province
Tbilisi
Kutais_Province
Kutais
Bucharest_Province
Bucharest
Venice_Province
Venice
Sofia_Province
Sofia
Preslav_Province
Preslav
Toulouse_Province
Toulouse
Barcelona_Province
Barcelona
Milan_Province
Milan
Leon_Province
Leon
Lugo_Province
Lugo
Salamanca_Province
Salamanca
Madrid_Province
Madrid
Zagreb_Province
Zagreb
Ragusa_Province
Ragusa
Zara_Province
Zara
Toledo_Province
Toledo
Pamplona_Province
Pamplona
Genoa_Province
Genoa
Bologna_Province
Bologna
Trebizond_Province
Trebizond
Sinope_Province
Sinope
Marseille_Province
Marseille
Florence_Province
Florence
Yerevan_Province
Yerevan
Kars_Province
Kars
Mokks_Province
Mokks
Tabriz_Province
Tabriz
Zaragoza_Province
Zaragoza
Lisbon_Province
Lisbon
Oporto_Province
Oporto
Constantinople_Province
Constantinople
Thessalonica_Province
Thessalonica
Ajaccio_Province
Ajaccio
Nicaea_Province
Nicaea
Athens_Province
Athens
Adrianople_Province
Adrianople
Abydus_Province
Abydus
Roman_Province
Rome
Spoleto_Province
Spoleto
Naples_Province
Naples
Bari_Province
Bari
Brindisi_Province
Brindisi
Reggio_Province
Reggio
Caesarea_Province
Caesarea
Angora_Province
Angora
Baghdad_Province
Baghdad
Cordoba_Province
Cordoba
Sevilla_Province
Sevilla
Durazzo_Province
Durazzo
Arta_Province
Arta
Valencia_Province
Valencia
Palma_Province
Palma
Iconium_Province
Iconium
Attalia_Province
Attalia
Adana_Province
Adana
Mosul_Province
Mosul
Cagliari_Province
Cagliari
Edessa_Province
Edessa
Smyrna_Province
Smyrna
Antioch_Province
Antioch
Granada_Province
Granada
Aleppo_Province
Aleppo
Jedda_Province
Jedda
Ayla_Province
Ayla
Qulzum_Province
Qulzum
Mekka_Province
Mekka
Medina_Province
Medina
Buraidah_Province
Buraidah
Palermo_Province
Palermo
Malta_Province
Malta
Corinth_Province
Corinth
Marrakesh_Province
Marrakesh
Fez_Province
Fez
Sijilmasa_Province
Sijilmasa
Isle_of_Cyprus
Nicosia
Isle_of_Cyprus2
Famagusta
Damascus_Province
Damascus
Algiers_Province
Algiers
Tunis_Province
Tunis
Oujda_Province
Oujda
Ouahran_Province
Ouahran
Acre_Province
Acre
Isle_of_Rhodes
Rhodes
Isle_of_Crete
Iraklion
Jerusalem_Province
Jerusalem
Tyrus_Province
Tyrus
Gaza_Province
Gaza
Tripoli_Province
Tripoli
Touggourt_Province
Touggourt
El-Aghouat_Province
El-Aghouat
Al-Mansurya_Province
Al-Mansurya
Benghazi_Province
Benghazi
Alexandria_Province
Alexandria
Damietta_Province
Damietta
Agadir_Province
Agadir
Timbuktu_Province
Timbuktu
Cairo_Province
Cairo
Beni_Suef_Province
Beni_Suef
Asyut_Province
Asyut
Siouah_Province
Siouah
Assouan_Province
Assouan
Dongola_Province
Dongola



New ones that I can remember.

Shiraz_Province
Shiraz
Basra_Province
Basra
Rasht_Province
Rasht
Rhages_Province
Rhages
Sari_Province
Sari
Konjikala_Province
Konjikala
Isfahan_Province
Isfahan
Yazd_Province
Yazd

Sakakah_Province
Sakakah
Amman_Province
Amman

Aqtobe_Province
Aqtobe
Bilar_Province
Bilar
Sarai_Province
Sarai

Beligrad_Province
Beligrad

Kalmar_Province
Kalmar

Akkerman_Province
Akkerman
Urganj_Province
Urganj
Pskov_Province
Pskov

Removed:

Stockholm

Passing out. Gnite

[Lopus]

So Uppsala takes the place of Stockholm and Kalmar takes the place of Uppsala?

[Averroës]

Thanks, Tornnight!

Wow, lots of intriguing information just from that list. Urganj! Does that mean we'll see the Khwarezmids? And lots of southern Kiev Rus' provinces and Bilar for the Volga Bulgars? It's a good thing I'm going to be out of touch most of next week, the suspense would be killing me!

[Lopus]

Torn, if you are doing such an extended map change, wouldn't it make sense to just rebuild the entire title system?

BBB is beautiful, but we can trade in the titles and customize it for TLR (of course with due credit to dearmad, Pnutmaster, Tokus*Maximus, and RepMan). We could ask for permission to use the title .tga (the ones that acegogo can't find replacements for ... if any fit better) and change it to something like:

French based (including England/Sicily) - Comte
HRE based - Graf
Polish - Herzog?
Christian Iberia - Conde
Italian - Conti
Muslim - Emir

These are all more or less approximates of the same word and I think I figured out how to code it all in anyway. (Thanks to BBB's creators Pnutmaster and dearmad).

[Tominokar]

Will the extended map be for 1.9 or perhaps 2.0?

[Lopus]

I do believe its for testing in the various 1.9 betas before being incorporated in TLR 2.0

[Crackler]

Herzog is a german name. The best polish equivalent name is "Książę".

[Lopus]

Ah, sorry about that, Averroës did mention that ... I must have gotten the Hungarians and Polish terminologies mixed up.