casuals vs fans

[sabaku_no_gaara]

First of all, I don't know where this really belongs, It has to do with sports but also with Morals so... I decided to put it in thema devia wich is for all topics.

my atual topic:

For years, I allways looked up but never joined casuals, if you don't know what casuals are, it's the football suporters who go the games without any recognisable team clothing or other recognisable stuff, but instead go in casual clothing, tough often they wear the same brands of clothing, I don't know about your country, here it's usually Lacoste and burberry, it's a something that came to us from England IIRC.

annyway to me the Casuals where the ultimate suporters because they loved the team so much they where prepared to put someone else in the hospital for it, or end up in the hospital themselves, they had the tattoo's, the reputation, the stadium bans, they made the news etc...

For years (and this started when I was a 15 year old) I worshipped casuals.

But now... I'm not to sure about them anymore, and here is why.

In my class are some guys of whom I found out they suported the same team as I do, and what's more they went to all the big games and actually where casuals. So we obviously talked football a lot and their stories of fighting Italians, brits, dutch, turks etc... in european games. Untill I asked, but I never saw you in the stadium, where do you guys sit? To wich they replied: we don't go to the stadium we go to a pub outside the stadium. I came to visit that pub once, and all those guys there all those casuals of whom I allways asumed where the best/ fiercest/ most loyal suporters turned out not to give a damn about football or the game itself. To use the exact words: "I don't care about the game, as long as I can bash someone's head in I'm happy" I was so dissapointed and disgusted, how can you tattoo the initials of a tem on your boddy, how can you know the songs, how can you call yourself a suporter when you don't even care about the game or how they play or if they win or not?

So what do you think? who is the best suporter, the guy in the stade with the shirt and the scarf clapping and singing, but running away as soon as an incident occurs, or the Casual who tattoos the teams initials on his body, goes to the games (but not allways to the stade) doesn't sing or wear any team stuff, but doesn't run away when incidents occur and stands his ground?

example: casuals


our fans, at a game against our biggest rivals

[TheEmperorsPointyStick]

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying, but your description of "casuals" sounds awfully much like "hooligans" to me... If that's the case, I have to disagree with your initial take on them. IMHO, hooligans are not the 'ultimate supporters' of a team, but the lowest pieces of scum imaginable in sports. How on earth does putting someone else in hospital (or even killing them - see Catania) do anything for the team they "support" or the sport as a whole? True supporters are those fans who go to the pitch for the sake of the game, for cheering their team, and representing their team well, not for the sake of fighting other morons or bystanders or police officers. Such people should truly be ashamed of themselves. They not only hurt their victims, but also the reputation of 'their' team. Oftentimes, teams who have some of these dumba$$es in their fanbase have to pay heavy fines and play before empty ranks, sacrificing millions of dollars (as seen in Italy). Is this how they support their team?

[Libertine]

Football Casuals are wastes of ****ing space, they onlu like the game because they want to get into a fight, Millwall fans especially.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

well that's what I'm thinking now too.

Casuals is a another word for hooligan, as hooligan has such a bad tone to it even tough intially it didn't,

I agree It's wrong to claim to be a loyal suporter of a team when in fact you don't care about the game at all. But my initial atraction was the fanaticism they seemed to show, and all the media coverage and atmosphere around them, they talk, breathe, think live football allmost 100% of the time they are awake, voicing their love for our teama nd their hatered for the rivals, especially the hatred. I was attracted to the feeling of unity against the common enemy and the unity through love for our team, untill I found out about the "we don't really care about the game mentality"


I'd like to point out that belitteling these individuals or stereotyping them is not a good idea tough, as they range from all layers of society, I know of at at least one police man who is a casual when he's off duty, and didn't a judge get arrested in the Netherlands a few years ago for being a hooligan?

Even tough I learned they aren't the great amazing fans they seemed to be, the atraction they have especially on younger people is not to be underestimated.


EDIT:
weird, my last post doesn't show in the thingy at the right, where it sais how many posts a thread has and who posted last, it says grimsta posted last, is this a problem with the site? and did my last post get posted or not? I can see it when I open the thread but can others?

[Habelo]

Well the casual clothing fashion seems to be everywhere, here in sweden theres really alot of that. But from the start i knew that casualds aint fighting for their team but for the fighting alone!
However i have one opinion about this:
If you fight for the fun of fighting it should be ok.
If you fight for respect ore to be "though guy" it just ruins it all(these guys are psycho belive me).
Whats more fun, fighting ore watching guys chase after a ball?

[sabaku_no_gaara]

well, I personally prefer watching the game and cheering the team on to victory

[Evariste]

I believe that this belongs in the Sports forum. If a moderator disagrees, feel free to move it back.

[RZZZA]

I think people who take sports too seriously are mentally unbalanced.

[JP226]

hey now i take sports seriously! I get really upset when the noles or the bucs lose major games. It's rough. Granted I don't stay in a state of depression, but the fact of really being disheartened isn't mentally unbalanced. What's the point if you don't care or just enjoy it as much as say a night at the movies?

[RZZZA]

I dont know, I'd think most people would appreciate sport for the competition, for the art of it. I never understood why people would get all emotional and too into it when their team lost of something. Like my brother, hell start screaming and hitting things and just acting like a douche whenever one of his teams loses. He acts like hes the owner of the team or something, y'know? its just ridiculous.

It all goes into my fanatic like adherence to the idea of stoicism, and my devotion to the idea of men having to control their emotions at all times. Real men that is, mature and wise men, should strive to be in control of themselves at all or most times. Not flip out over something relatively petty, we're supposed to be cooler and more responsible than that.

Unless of course you have stock in the team or you placed a big bet or something, then youre entitled to be pissed off because it does affect you directly.

[JP226]

What's so bad about letting your emotions release when you win or lose? I understand if that carries over into work and family/ friend relations, but just before during and just after it's healthy to get passionate about such things.

It all goes into my fanatic like adherence to the idea of stoicism, and my devotion to the idea of men having to control their emotions at all times.

What fun is that? I'd much rather be upset over a losing team versus being a dud.

[RZZZA]

Some people take their emotions too far, they cant control themselves.

Maybe I just dont understand team sports. I like boxing for instance, and I do have favorite boxers, but I dont yell and scream and beat the %$^& out of people if my boxer wins or loses. It'd be a bit ridiculous if I did...

see my point?

[Habelo]

Some people take their emotions too far, they cant control themselves.

Maybe I just dont understand team sports. I like boxing for instance, and I do have favorite boxers, but I dont yell and scream and beat the %$^& out of people if my boxer wins or loses. It'd be a bit ridiculous if I did...

see my point?

Well as long as you can control yourself so you dont hurt you ore others right?
Otherwise i feel that it can be nice to be angry so you get some of the **** out of you. And i also remember that in my younger days it was nice to cry alittle over a painfull thing.

I think if you show some emotions while watching a game you will get more in common with those others that are cheering on the same team no?

[sabaku_no_gaara]

I don't know man, Getting emotional is the beauty of football and being a fan

the Happyness when you win the league or when you defeat your biggest rivals, the pride when you win or draw against one of europe's finest in the Champions league (we are a dwarf on european level)

The sadness, I say the emotion is what makes it great. I've seen big tough men cry of happyness without fear of being called gay when we won the league in the final match last year, That is the beauty, also the feeling of being part of something is wonderfull.

Look at this don't tell me you don't get the chills from this? And the Urge to stand between those men singing and cheering expressing your happyness and disgust for the others



I can't look at this or clips from fener, besiktas or galatasaray (I think turkey has the best fans) without getting chills and goosebumbs and a verry special feeling, better then the feeling of being in love wich is the second best feeling in the world

Look at these guys


small team HSV not many fans there and after the game, but still great how they create a wonderfull atmosphere


This one brings a tear to my eyes every time I see it, It's perfectly true and it's about the team I love so it really relates to me

[RZZZA]

I dunno, I think its nutty, I cant understand it. Im just not much of a fan of team sports.

I remember back in 96 when the bulls won their championship I was living in chicago and we went out on the street and people were going nuts. Honking their horns, screaming, I heard even a little bit of rioting broke out. These people act like they have some stake in the game, but most of them dont. Nothing but an emotional stake anyway, which is all in their mind. I think its just an excuse to act out, people just need any excuse to act out of the norm.

Thats also why I think holidays exist. It isnt for history, or reverence, its for acting out and letting loose.

[Habelo]

I dunno, I think its nutty, I cant understand it. Im just not much of a fan of team sports.

I remember back in 96 when the bulls won their championship I was living in chicago and we went out on the street and people were going nuts. Honking their horns, screaming, I heard even a little bit of rioting broke out. These people act like they have some stake in the game, but most of them dont. Nothing but an emotional stake anyway, which is all in their mind. I think its just an excuse to act out, people just need any excuse to act out of the norm.

Thats also why I think holidays exist. It isnt for history, or reverence, its for acting out and letting loose.

But dont you think its good for people to be able to act out of the norm sometimes?

[JP226]

What fun are sports if you don't get excited? What fun is anything if you have no emotion? What about movies, do you display any emotion when it comes to those rzzza? What about Music?

[RZZZA]

Theres certain lines that shouldn't be crossed, as soon as caring for a team turns to rioting, looting and beating the $%%& out of people....as it all too often does....I tend to look at it as mental instability at that point.

[JP226]

you have a point there but really getting upset and elated isn't over the top

[RZZZA]

I got upset when james toney lost against sam peter, but I didnt scream. I didnt stomp my leg. I didnt punch the wall. doing so would be infantile, dont you agree?



"RRRRRAAAAWWWWRRRR! How could my guy lose?! HULK MAAAAD"