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Thread: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

  1. #1
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Battle Walkthrough

    This is a walk through of a battle I have just completed, Rohan vs. Gondor. It's out of the campaign I am playing where my 2nd Rohan army is attacking a Gondor army besieging one of my towns (my reinforcements never show up....). Although not a great battle it does show very clearly how to fight using Rohan cavalry.



    The Tactics
    Rohan tactics depend entirely on two things:
    • Manoeuverability
    • Fear of the Riddermark Spears


    Basically, no enemy army of infantry can catch your cavalry, yet your cavalry will get chewed up if they get into melee with his infantry (or worse, charge them head on). So, you need to manoeuvre, manoeuvre, manoeuvre....

    So, think matadors, they move around and draw the charge, but then dodge it, tiring out the bull until it is ready for the kill. With Rohan cavalry you can do exactly the same - pull his infantry around all over the place, get them charging at you but dodge out of the way, tire them out and then kill them.

    The setup
    So, to start with split your army into three:
    • Left flank
    • Right flank
    • Center


    Left and right flank do the damage so put into each the bulk of your heavy cavalry, especially the riddermark spears. The Center is just a holding unit which may not get involved in the battle. Put your General in here plus a couple of units to guard him (putting your general here attracts the enemy).

    First move is to throw forward your flanks and center (as per diagram below). Any horsearchers you have should be moved to the highest ground you can find and, preferably, behind the enemy.

    Key
    • Blue - Riddermark Spears
    • Green - Rohan Spears
    • Red - General
    • Yellow - Horsearchers




    Second Stage

    Now you should have your forces nicely surrounding him like this:


    Spearmen are in front of the riddermark spears as I want to use their javelin ability. Archers have moved up onto the high ground.

    The enemy are now marching backwards and forwards to try to counter this formation. This includes his archers who don't settle and therefore don't fire. Now my Archers and javelin men open fire selectively on his best troops (I concentrate on cavalry first, then spearmen then bowmen - unless his bowmen are doing me lots of damage in which case they move up the targeting list). Don't use your archers on his heavy cavalry, they won't do much damage (but they will massacre light cavalry ).

    How it develops
    In this battle the AI was so confused he did very little (as you can see below). Normally he will try to charge you with either cavalry or infantry.

    Cavalry
    Cavalry coming out is what you want (without his cavalry he is doomed). Immediately split the group he is charging into two so that he is forced to turn towards one and show his flank/rear to the other. The unit at the flank/rear then charge as do the unit he is chasing. End result is his cavalry wiped out. Ideally, the ones taking his charge head on should be your Rohan light spears - yes they will take large casualties but they are easily replaced as anywhere can train them. Riddermarks then hit the flank/rear.

    Infantry
    Again, withdraw your troops, splitting them into two units. If his infantry return to his main army then just return to your positions (he will be getting tired). Otherwise just keep manoeuvering your cavalry so that the charging units are always Riddermark spears and are attacking from the flank/rear. Rinse and repeat.

    Using the above technique you can destroy up to about 75% of his army for very few casualties (just always charge with the Riddermark spears leading, use the fear they generate).

    In this battle, however, he kept together and then tried to run......



    AI started by advancing his Kings Spearmen (81 of them) towards my general. My archers opened fire and eventually reduced them to 9 men. Meanwhile my Rohan Spears were looking for high value targets for their javelins and found the Kings Guard cavalry and the Men at Arms - killing 80% of each (see below).

    NB. The Riddermark Spears and the generals are sitting in support, if he had charged the Rohan Spears they would have withdrawn and left the countercharge to the Riddermarks.



    A little bit more manoeuvring took place; he charged his infantry towards the cavalry down the hill so they just moved out of the way (guys on the left of the picture below). When he did this I moved the 3 units into a 'U' shape, whichever one of the three he attacked the other two could attack his flanks/rear.

    But that was his only serious manoeuvring. Meanwhile my archers and javelin troops were causing huge casualties.

    At this point he decided to run and the whole army turned and headed for the borders. Cue mass charge from my cavalry with the troops at the rear and flanks charging first to ensure they hit first.



    His army then routed en mass on contact (which is the value of charging tired troops with Riddermark spears) and the massacre commenced.



    Summary
    You have to play to your strengths, the manoeuvrability of your troops and the fear factor of your Riddermarks. Keep manoeuvring and threatening his infantry but do not engage unless you can charge the rear/flank. Use your missile troops to pepper his army, concentrating on his high value troops especially his cavalry.

    If you do it right his army with be exhausted and totally out of formation when you attack, and you will be able to destroy it bit by bit with at least 2 cavalry units charging each infantry.

    Finally a quick note on your enemies:

    Gondor - they tend to hold together better and certainly keep their archers better protected. However, they are less likely to charge at your troops so you can move in much closer (which causes his archers set to skirmish to keep moving and so not fire). Never charge his better infantry from the front

    Dunland/Rhun - tend to be a lot less disciplined and aggressive. Fighting their armies will result in a battle spread over a huge area (lots of use of the pause button as your try to control 3-4 separate fights). Their cavalry will tend to chase after your horsearchers which is great - but make sure your horsearchers don't get trapped against the edge of the map). Their archers tend to be left at the back and are therefore very vulnerable to your cavalry, but if you don't go for them they will cause you casualties.

    Harad - sit somewhere between the above two. Their cavalry tend to be more aggressive but infantry less so. You will lose troops to their cavalry so ensure you always attack with 2:1 (at least) and one always from the flank/rear. For me I tend to use Rohan light spears in a frontal attack (accepting a lot will be killed - they are easily replaced) and the Riddermark spears attack from the flank/rear.

    Anyway, hope that helps, not the best battle as the Gondorians just huddled together

    For me the ideal army is:

    • Left Flank:
      • 4 Riddermark Spears
      • 2 Rohan Spears
    • Right Flank:
      • 4 Riddermark Spears
      • 2 Rohan Spears
    • Centre
      • General
      • 2 Riddermark spears
    • 4 Archers - deploy as a group.
    Last edited by Tacticalwithdrawal; February 19, 2007 at 06:11 AM.
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Nice!

    Very much similar to my strategy when playing as Rohan (whenever I'm not trying to recreate the charge at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields - which is quite often ).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    When fighting agains Dunland (and maybe Rhun, havn't fought against them yet) just charge em
    One General plus 6 or 8 Riddermark spears vs full stack dunland army -> chain rout 1 sec after the charge
    When RK just sends full stacks of cheap militia and swordsmens against you, just suround em and then charge, some seconds of melee and then chainrout (almost as fast as the dunlanders).
    I only use Riddermark spears (maybe some horse archers for fun) and only a half-stack of them. I killed everything the enemy threw at me without problem.
    Havn't fought against Harad yet.

  4. #4
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Quote Originally Posted by -apocalypsis- View Post
    Nice!

    Very much similar to my strategy when playing as Rohan (whenever I'm not trying to recreate the charge at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields - which is quite often ).
    I've got a set of 5 Riddermark spears, 1 General and 4 Mercenary cavalry protecting the city on Mordor's border just North of Minas Ithil. Rhun armies have to march up a huge steep hill where my cavalry are sitting in wedge formation.

    I wait 'till they have walked all the way up then do a Pelennor fields charge, very, very satisfying, all those mad cavalry pouring down the hill - the poor Rhun guys usually rout before contact

    Quote Originally Posted by Exekutor View Post
    When fighting agains Dunland (and maybe Rhun, havn't fought against them yet) just charge em
    One General plus 6 or 8 Riddermark spears vs full stack dunland army -> chain rout 1 sec after the charge
    When RK just sends full stacks of cheap militia and swordsmens against you, just suround em and then charge, some seconds of melee and then chainrout (almost as fast as the dunlanders).
    I only use Riddermark spears (maybe some horse archers for fun) and only a half-stack of them. I killed everything the enemy threw at me without problem.
    True, but then your losses gradually mount up and, if you are away from Rohan, replacing the Riddermark spears gets more and more difficult. I'm trying for minimum possible casualties whatever army I face (any more than 50 and I get irritated) as I'm campaigning far from home most of the time.

    Havn't fought against Harad yet.
    They tend to turn up with a lot more cavalry and Spearmen, plus their cavalry is a lot better so you have to be a bit more careful.
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
    ______________________________________________________________

    Ave Caesar, Morituri Nolumus Mori (in Glaswegian: gae **** yrsel big man)
    ______________________________________________________________
    Child of Seleukos, Patron of Rosacrux redux, Polemides, Marcus Scaurus, CaptainCernick, Spiff and Fatsheep

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    I'm only losing 5 to 15 men (large unit size) when killing a 3/4 stack of Gondor troops with one or two elites/cavalry. But reinforcements aren't the problem, you don't need them to get back, just send some fresh units for merging.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Any chance we can get a walkthrough for RK?

  7. #7
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    yeah, good possibility - I'm playing a campaign with them now, Rohan got a bit easy........

    Currently have captured Umbar and desparately trying to hold it, plus having huge city battles in the city just south of Minas Tirith and Minas Ithil - last one had 4800 dead on his side (49 escaped) and 700 dead on my side (and most of my dead was because I chased his routers too early and they rallied....). Took 3 hours to finish the battle.

    Rhun are starting to close in as well so have lots of opportunities for big battles against different foes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exekutor View Post
    I'm only losing 5 to 15 men (large unit size) when killing a 3/4 stack of Gondor troops with one or two elites/cavalry.
    That's about right for 2 cav vs. 4 infantry, but would be too high a rate for a full stack vs a full stack. Basically though, Rohan with Riddermark spearmen are just too lethal against the AI (though die horribly when the AI is running them against my RK armies).

    Quote Originally Posted by Exekutor View Post
    But reinforcements aren't the problem, you don't need them to get back, just send some fresh units for merging.
    True, but I'm trying to keep the casualties to a minimum so I don't have to constantly churn out reinforcements, and can concentrate on more long-term beneficial buildings.
    Last edited by Tacticalwithdrawal; February 26, 2007 at 04:07 AM.
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
    ______________________________________________________________

    Ave Caesar, Morituri Nolumus Mori (in Glaswegian: gae **** yrsel big man)
    ______________________________________________________________
    Child of Seleukos, Patron of Rosacrux redux, Polemides, Marcus Scaurus, CaptainCernick, Spiff and Fatsheep

  8. #8

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Yes, indeed very nice.

    +Rep (although you don't seem to need that :wink: )

    But what difficulty (battle) did you play this on?

  9. #9
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Quote Originally Posted by Arakorn-eir View Post
    Yes, indeed very nice.

    +Rep (although you don't seem to need that :wink: )
    thanks, glad you liked it.

    (always need rep - someone has to try to keep up with Ian & Garb )

    Quote Originally Posted by Arakorn-eir View Post
    But what difficulty (battle) did you play this on?
    Very Hard ('Shouting at dragons'?) - I always play my campaigns of Hard for campaign and very hard for the battles (unless the mod says not to, eg SPQR). I find it gives the most fun.
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
    ______________________________________________________________

    Ave Caesar, Morituri Nolumus Mori (in Glaswegian: gae **** yrsel big man)
    ______________________________________________________________
    Child of Seleukos, Patron of Rosacrux redux, Polemides, Marcus Scaurus, CaptainCernick, Spiff and Fatsheep

  10. #10

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal View Post
    (always need rep - someone has to try to keep up with Ian & Garb )
    Well, Ian has currently (as of yesterday at least) 0, ie less than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal View Post
    Very Hard ('Shouting at dragons'?) - I always play my campaigns of Hard for campaign and very hard for the battles (unless the mod says not to, eg SPQR). I find it gives the most fun.
    Laughing. :wink:

  11. #11
    CaptainCernick's Avatar Trouvère
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Rohan is my favorite faction, so this will help me a bit. I always stop the game when RK attacks me, though. It just feels so wrong slaughtering all these free men of Gondor.

    Siggy pic courtesy of the uncomparably artistic Atterdag.
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    is my patron.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Yeah, me too...

    Then again I usually restart any TW game when someone betrays me, so I don't have to fight a two-front-war. :wink:

  13. #13
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    two front war?!! I wish

    My last RK campaign drowned under the weight of a four-front war;
    • Rohan piling in from the NW
    • Rhun piling in from the NE and E
    • Harad from the South
    • Dunland heading due south from their lands and taking all my little towns


    Not only that, but they were all either allied or neutral with each other, the only faction at war with anyone was me.

    Got wiped out by that one, but have restarted and am doing a lot better now I know how RK should go.
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
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    Ave Caesar, Morituri Nolumus Mori (in Glaswegian: gae **** yrsel big man)
    ______________________________________________________________
    Child of Seleukos, Patron of Rosacrux redux, Polemides, Marcus Scaurus, CaptainCernick, Spiff and Fatsheep

  14. #14

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Any tips for fighting bridge battles with Rohan?

  15. #15
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Simple one is don't - their whole style of fighting is with their cavalry, bridges stop that happening and negate their benefit.

    That being said though they are pretty good at bridge battles. What you need to do is all the normal bridge battle tactics (ie. good solid infantry square at the end of the bridge, lots of archers firing flaming arrows etc) but instead of putting your infantry on the end of the bridge move them back a bit. Then put your riddermark spears off to one side of the infantry (the opposite side of the archers.

    What you want is for the enemy to cross the bridge and get stuck into your infantry. Because your infantry is back a bit from the bridge the riddermark cavalry can then charge into the flanks of the enemy. Charge and then disengage, rinse and repeat.
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
    ______________________________________________________________

    Ave Caesar, Morituri Nolumus Mori (in Glaswegian: gae **** yrsel big man)
    ______________________________________________________________
    Child of Seleukos, Patron of Rosacrux redux, Polemides, Marcus Scaurus, CaptainCernick, Spiff and Fatsheep

  16. #16

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Hey, Tac, going a bit OT here, but since when have you changed rank? I remember you being "blue"...

  17. #17
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Quote Originally Posted by Arakorn-eir View Post
    Hey, Tac, going a bit OT here, but since when have you changed rank? I remember you being "blue"...
    got bored of the Curia and not participating there so changed to show my modding rank (though I still have all the others)
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
    ______________________________________________________________

    Ave Caesar, Morituri Nolumus Mori (in Glaswegian: gae **** yrsel big man)
    ______________________________________________________________
    Child of Seleukos, Patron of Rosacrux redux, Polemides, Marcus Scaurus, CaptainCernick, Spiff and Fatsheep

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Hey, tacticalwithdrawal, just tried your stategy for fighting with Rohan. The haradrians had me stuck behind a bridge, and after i had practiced using your strategy a bit, I took the fight to them. I took the bridge and then killed about 15000 of their men on the other side(huge settings). In all of this, I only lost about 300 men. thanks for the great tip.

  19. #19
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal View Post
    got bored of the Curia and not participating there so changed to show my modding rank (though I still have all the others)
    It is "Tac of many colours" then...

    By the by bridge battles are so tempting when you play as RK (and you have the uber-unit of Elves to take out the enemy leader. I try to avoid but with the nice convenient bridge in the border with Harad...

    What I actually did was to boost all morale by 10% except for settlers. It is a bit unrealistic (if you can say that in a fantasy mod) but at least I don't have the insta-routes which are frankly boring from a point on.

  20. #20
    ljuboja's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Fighting with Rohan - the matador's dance

    when i play rohan, i get my worst troops in the centre, best troops on the flank, then i attack with centre, and flank them with my best troops!!!

    they tend to rout very quickly when you do it like that, and then since ur rohan, ur bound to have cavalry to masscre the fleeing enemy!

    so u practically rol up their army, it works!!! Alexander the great did it!
    Bad luck Jerry, third time lucky, eh?

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