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Thread: PORTUGUESE Character Names

  1. #41
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Hello riquinhO:

    All this to say that it could have happened the same with Marcos (coming from Marcus), Márcio (coming from Marcius)...
    Martio it is an early portuguese name - 1192 -
    http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/earlyportuguese
    we have for example Sócrates but more as a surname
    Unless he´s the Prime Minister*coughs*

  2. #42

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    heheheh
    A bunch of Portuguese speakers trying to discuss Portuguese names in English…. Hehehe, sorry, out of topic….
    Um dia destes vou mudar a minha assinatura.

  3. #43
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulius Hostilius View Post
    heheheh
    A bunch of Portuguese speakers trying to discuss Portuguese names in English…. Hehehe, sorry, out of topic….

    By the way,Marco it is an Italien,Spanish and Portuguese name.
    Marcos it is a Spanish and Portuguese name.
    http://genealogia.netopia.pt/pessoas/index.php
    (Genea Portuguesa)

  4. #44

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    heheheh
    A bunch of Portuguese speakers trying to discuss Portuguese names in English…. Hehehe, sorry, out of topic….
    And another bunch watching and commenting also in English. I came here by accident and thought about contributing. But...

    parece que há por aqui muita gente sem nível e de qualquer forma poderiamos estar aqui a discutir nomes até às calendas de Março.

    Acontece também que não há critério. Português antigo vs português moderno. Formas arcaicas de português vs forma moderna de escrever. Aquilo que é comum vs o que é raro e invulgar. Português de Portugal vs Português do Brasil. Com tantos nomes que existem porquê encravar? Há dúvidas? Passa-se a outro e pronto. Essa seria a minha forma de actuar se eu mandasse alguma coisa.

    Já dei a minha colher de chá. Façam o que quiserem com ela.

    Roger and Out.

  5. #45

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Riquinh0,

    Relax, just don't pay attention to comments that you don't like...
    Anyhow, hang around and maybe you could find other stuff where you could contribute. For instance, some time ago I translated into Portuguese all the campaign and battle maps texts for the xenophonia mod. There still the battle speeches to translate and I have not touch them for a long time... Would you like to take a look at the translations, which, after some comments from Manji on Brazilian Portuguese vs. Portuguese from Portugal, I decided to dub Brazilian Portuguese translations? I am sure they could be improved and also used for a translation better suited to our Portuguese people!

    cheers,

    Cururu

  6. #46

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Quote Originally Posted by riquinh0 View Post
    And another bunch watching and commenting also in English. I came here by accident and thought about contributing. But...
    Yep,
    I am in the second bunch, the one that is on the bench!
    And, by the way, I was only introducing a “lighter” commentary…

    We speak English here because this is one of the “house rules”, we have some more “freedom” here:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=34048&page=49
    sometimes the themes aren’t so interesting… but we can make some comments in our mother language.

    About Portuguese names:
    It is not easy to establish consensual criteria when we are talking about a timeline from the XI century to the XVI.
    When I saw this tread for the first time it seemed to me that the work was done and it was an (almost) dead issue, but now I am here…
    I must say that I agree with some of the Riquinho remarks, some Latin names, used commonly today in Brazil, don’t seem Portuguese medieval to me. I confess that I didn’t investigate now the matter, I didn’t made a specific research about this, but I don’t recall the issued names in the medieval documents that I reed and neither in the books.

    On the other way, Angelina could stay…
    (I am joking again, Riquinho)


    Só mais uma achega:

    Quote Originally Posted by riquinh0 View Post
    parece que há por aqui muita gente sem nível
    Essa do muita gente “sem nível” foi “sem nível” e escusada, não percebi para quem foi, nem quero, mas não vale a pena incendiar o edifício.
    Um dia destes vou mudar a minha assinatura.

  7. #47

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Cururu View Post
    Would you like to take a look at the translations, which, after some comments from Manji on Brazilian Portuguese vs. Portuguese from Portugal, I decided to dub Brazilian Portuguese translations? I am sure they could be improved and also used for a translation better suited to our Portuguese people!
    Sure. E-mail or post a link to the file and I'll have a look.

  8. #48
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Essa seria a minha forma de actuar se eu mandasse alguma coisa
    Um termo infeliz,mandar.Mas não manda.Quanto muito, pode dar (como todos) opiniões.Dar,não mandar.Discutir civilizadamente.Sugerir.Argumentar.Percebe?
    parece que há por aqui muita gente sem nível
    Já dei a minha colher de chá....
    Hehe.
    A começar e a acabar em si,óbviamente.Be civilized.

    Tulius wrote:
    Essa do muita gente “sem nível” foi “sem nível” e escusada, não percebi para quem foi, nem quero, mas não vale a pena incendiar o edifício.
    Oh,he didn´t understood your innocent joke,it´s a question of - gray matter + impulsivity = rude and innappropriate comments.
    Last edited by Ludicus; June 29, 2007 at 01:12 PM.

  9. #49

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Oh,he didn´t understood your innocent joke,it´s a question of - gray matter + impulsivity = rude and innappropriate comments.

    Or maybe the formula is:

    joke + bad timing = no joke

    or

    rude inappropriate joke => rude inappropriate response.

    or even

    One saying something funny + One or more understanding it as funny = Joke

    Anyway: I recognize my
    “sem nível”
    was inappropriate and impulsive and for that I apologize.

  10. #50
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    "sem nível”
    was inappropriate and impulsive and for that I apologize
    No hard feelings.That´s ok.
    Riquinho,Tulius joke was very innocent and also directed to me (to us) and without any malice.That was the reason of my answer to him with this
    Feel free to join us at the link in the Tulius post.

  11. #51

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    After all these posts… I think we can all move on and talk about Portuguese names…

    Btw, Riquinho, welcome to the TW Center community, is always good to have more Portuguese native speakers here.
    Um dia destes vou mudar a minha assinatura.

  12. #52

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Well, i've been away for awhile (or, to be more precise, I'm not a very active member of TWC anymore) but it's nice too see such discussions.

    Some notes I feel like adding:

    Mateus, Marcos, Lucas, etc, are fairly common nowadays as first names but weren't so in the past where they were mainly surnames (and still are today).
    A Jorge Lucas or Carlos Mateus is much more common, even today, than a Mateus Silva or Lucas Pereira. This is because names which end in "s" have a history of patronymical usage (Lucas meaning "Son of Luca" and not the biblical Lucas, Mateus meaning the "Son of Matos" in portuguese and not the biblical correspondent, etc). The same applies in other common patronyms like Gonçalves (son of Gonçalo), Mendes (son of Mendo), etc.

    Names, just because they have a latin origin, weren't necessarily common in the Portuguese vocabulary during the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Some names like Márcio, Flávio, Fábio, Marcos, were fairly uncommon and mostly of Italian origin and hence more common in Lisbon and even there very few and far between. I've already posted some historical data from library sources, search the first posts for it.

    Like i've already said, naming conventions in Brazillian Portuguese and Portuguese Proper are further apart than even between Portuguese and Spanish, this because Brazillian Portuguese received much more input from germanic/italian sources then we ever did.

    Just as a final note, my own name is a good example of this:

    Bruno Flávio Silva Pereira

    Bruno from the germanic "braun" meaning "brown haired" and "bear", later transliterated to Italian "Bruno" or "Brunno".

    Flávio from the italian "Flavio" which in turn comes from the latin "Flavius" meaning "of blonde hair".

    Silva, which is entirely portuguese and comes from the latin "silvus, silva" which means "of the wood" or "of the forest" and was used to indicate someone who hailed from a woodland area.

    Pereira, which is a local patronym indicating farmers, and became popular in Portugal because D.Nuno Álvares, the Santo Condestável of Portugal, used it as a surname.
    浪人 - 二天一

  13. #53

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Tulius and Ludicus:
    Quite some Latin nicknames you have chosen, maybe there are in Brazil some Túlios and Lúdicos (this was a joke...). I'll drop by the place you told me one of this days.

    Manji:
    I agree fully with you. So... the Flávio you have in the second name is probably modern, because I only used to find Flávios in Brazil or of Brazilian origins. In Portugal name giving is changing his frontiers fast recently. I have a niece with 2 years old called Ariana, imagine that!

    Taken from what I already said, my proposal (if you want to have a more "polished" version fast) is that you give us a new list (3.01?) including the names on the late version and some new names "on the bench" and leave that for appreciation for some time (1 or 2 weeks?). And maybe Ludicus, Tulius, Cururu and more would like to add some more names to the "on the bench"?
    Thankfully there are lots of names so if there are doubts we just take that name out and move to one "on the bench"?

    Now that I think about it I'm not that sure about some of the names I gave you. For example Iolanda could well be coming from the french Yolande and Ermengarda (now that is ugly isn't it?) from the german Hermengard (or something). Dinis, Brites, Dulce and Alcoforado have a nice medieval sound though .

    Pleased to meet you.

  14. #54

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Manji,
    It’s nice to “see” you around.

    Quote Originally Posted by riquinh0 View Post
    Tulius and Ludicus:
    Quite some Latin nicknames you have chosen,
    Two notes, and a question, to make this (more) clear:

    1. I didn’t choose anything. I didn’t work in this project. All the credits and suggestions should be given to the ones that made the research. When I made my return to TW Center the “PORTUGUESE Character Names” project seemed in an advanced status or even almost finished.

    2. As I said it in the post #46, I agree with you, about the issued Latin names. And I will repeat myself saying that, in the medieval documents and partial transcriptions that I reed over the years, I don’t remember to see none of this Latin names, now commonly used in Brazil. In other words, I never disagreed on this particular issue with you.

    3. It seemed to me that you quoted me when you say twice “on the bench”. Again, just to clarify, in my post #46, I was playing with the words “bunch” and “bench”. It seems that you didn’t understood that. Am I right?

    If, in any ways, I say something that can cause some problems to our communication fell free to ask me to clarify the meaning of it. Sometimes, when we write in a foreign language, clear communication can be more difficult. Just let’s not be inflamed by simple, innocent words, and polite comments.

    Carpe Diem!
    Um dia destes vou mudar a minha assinatura.

  15. #55

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Tulius,

    Maybe now it's your turn to think I was being malicious. I assure you I wasn't. Just it seemed funny that we were talking about names of latin origin being adopted in Brazil and the coincidence of both of you having latin nicknames. Just that.

    I'm not sure now this is a safe place for posting a joke, lolololol.

    Ok, let me try to make a joke to Manji now: do you have blonde or brown hair? Do your family comes from the woods or from the farms? Because after seeing the explanation of your names I got confused.

    (I am now praying Manji is not offended....)

  16. #56

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Oh, and about the "on the bench" - I just saw it as a nice expression to what I wanted to say. I could call it "substitute", "on hold", "on stand-by", etc. "On the bench" sounded more graphical, just that.

  17. #57

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    Quote Originally Posted by riquinh0 View Post
    Ok, let me try to make a joke to Manji now: do you have blonde or brown hair? Do your family comes from the woods or from the farms? Because after seeing the explanation of your names I got confused.

    (I am now praying Manji is not offended....)
    Of course I would never get offended with that.

    Actually, my explanation was about name meanings, something that patronymical names had in the past, specifically the age TW is set into, and are today lost for "trendy" and "uncommon" names.
    Actually I do have brown hair with gray strokes, so Flavius and Bräun are rather on spot and my family has always been from inland regions with woods... no farmers though.

    Now, if we use the "Mendonça" example, which is a patronym for "Son of Mendo", in the Middle Ages it was quite common to name your son Mendonça, as a first name, and subsequently he would name his own son either Mendo, like the grandfather or another name plus Mendonça as surname; that's how some common first patronym names became surnames.

    For example.

    Grandfather: Mendo Gonçalves (Mendo, son of Gonçalo)
    Son: Mendonça da Costa (Son of Mendo, inhabitant of a coastal region or possible a fisherman)
    Grandson: Carlos Mendonça (son of Mendo or son of Mendonça)

    This is just a very simplistic example but the core of how name changes occurred in the past.
    Also, cultural pressures made a great difference when it came to naming conventions, even today though in the past those pressures were religious and today are more about "modern trend" and "beauty". I, for example, have the first name "Bruno" because I was born in the month of Saint Bruno, something that could might as well have happened in the Medieval Ages but not so common anymore today when people call their sons "Gerson" and "Marcos" just because it's "fashionable".
    浪人 - 二天一

  18. #58

    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names


    Well, I suppose that many of us have Latin nicknames because we made our registration under the influence of Rome Total War.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Manji View Post
    Grandfather: Mendo Gonçalves (Mendo, son of Gonçalo)
    Son: Mendonça da Costa (Son of Mendo, inhabitant of a coastal region or possible a fisherman)
    Grandson: Carlos Mendonça (son of Mendo or son of Mendonça)
    And nice sample Manji.
    Last edited by Tulius Hostilius; June 30, 2007 at 12:00 PM.
    Um dia destes vou mudar a minha assinatura.

  19. #59
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    maybe there are in Brazil some Túlios and Lúdicos (this was a joke...)

    Oh,no Brasil há de tudo;em se plantando dá,como escrevia Caminha.Túlios, Ludicos e também Riquinhos.
    (another joke )

    Now,more seriously:
    Ermengarda (now that is ugly isn't it?) from the german Hermengard
    Yep,Hermengard is a visigothic name,like Brunhilda,for instance.Just remember "Eurico o Presbístero" from Herculano....(Hermengarda,Eurico,"spanish" form of the visigothic name Euric....)
    Last edited by Ludicus; June 30, 2007 at 03:06 PM.

  20. #60
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: PORTUGUESE Character Names

    What's the conclusion here then?

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