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Thread: strategy againt the mongols?

  1. #1

    Default strategy againt the mongols?

    Right now I am the Byzantine empire. I have conquered all of The Turks and 1/2 of Egypt. The problem is the Mongols have just invaded and have 5 stacks near the Antioch region. They have already a couple of units outside of the city with about 1/2 a stack. They pretty much slaughtered me. Half of their units were calvary. I was wondering do you guys have any strategy's
    against the Mongols in a siege battle? Open battle? I spent a bunch of money on stuff like ballista (spelling?) towers and recruiting units.

    Thanks for all your help.

  2. #2

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    The best thing to remember against the Mongols is also a simple thing: never engage them in the open field unless you can outshoot them and hopefully outnumber them as well. Considering how many stacks of troops they come bringing, that's not likely to be the case. Siege defense is your best option, so sit tight inside cities with good walls and hopefully some upgraded towers and wait them out. Keep high quality infantry on the walls to repulse the limited number of foot soldiers they throw at you. After that, let your archers take them out from the relative safety of the walls. It still won't be easy.

  3. #3

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    If you want to avoid fighting, give them a crappy settlement and that way no more hordes will come because they have a new home. If possible, once you do that, try to form an alliance as they can be powerful allies. This comes in very handy because it's not as likely they'll be travelling in groups.
    You could also try assassinating all the leaders and the hordes will disband, but later more hordes will come, at least that's what happened to me.

    Now if you want battle help, you want to pick rough terrains with trees and hills/mountains. Place archers and infantry in wooded areas and mountainous ones (especially archers) and they'll prove much more effective against Mongol cavalry.
    Last edited by General Danilius; February 15, 2007 at 07:08 PM.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    The best stratagy is numbers....have tons of soilders even peasents fighting against them and they will crumble cause quantity WILL beat them if u go for quality eg.byzantine infantry and byzantine archers you will suffer alot in your treasury..
    I'm really too lazy to add a pic (for now) so just settle on this you swine And if you find my posts helpful or funny add +rep

  5. #5
    Trajan's Avatar Capodecina
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    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    Moved to Battle Planning.

  6. #6

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    So is money an issue? If not, I'd suggest you forgo any infantry army if you want to fight them out in the field. Instead, make large armies of Vardarotai and Kataphractoi and engage them that way. Your heavy cavalry is on par with theirs and the same goes for your horse archers. Try and have a good general with your army and when engaging theirs, always attack and try and kill their general first. This may prove very tricky, but place your horse archers on the flanks and try to draw away their horse archers and heavy cavalry. Use your own heavy cavalry to break through their infantry forces (kill the foot archers especially) and try and to surround his general. If you can kill off that general, the resulting morale loss will help you win the battle. This is a very messy affair and there is a fair chance that you will lose the battle, and it's definitely costly to retrain your units, but this is probably your best bet if you want to fight the Mongols out in the open. For sieges, well, that's just another story.

    Defending sieges is pretty easy against the Mongols seeing as how they have really bad infantry. The key is to let them break through your gates and crowd the area close by with spearmen to kill their cavalry as they rush through. Oftentimes, the AI will send his general unit through the gates first, and if you can kill him fast, you will start a chain rout. I'd say, place some Byzantine Spearmen near the gates supported by your best heavy infantry (Dismounted Latinkons if you have them). You can hold the walls with some Byzantine Guard Archers/Heavy Infantry as well to defeat their forces. Line up your forces at the gate in a "V" pattern such as...

    GGG
    \ /

    If the Mongols have siege units, simply pull back and defend the town square in the same manner.

  7. #7

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    Greetings General

    I have one main rule when I play the campaign-always uphold honor and never run, or hide from the enemy. In order to really test yourself, be sure to face the Mongols in an open field and never retreat (just like Spartans!!!). FIght to the last. I can assure you that 1 stack lead by a skilled commander (yourself hopefully), can reduce 3-4 stacks of mongols, to a minor force. YOu will need an additional army to engage them again. Alternatively bring 2 armies to the field, hold the line and pound the mongols. Remember to truly test yourself, do not use chokepoints i.e. bridhes, ambushes etc. Open field is the way!

  8. #8

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    First of all thanks for all the help

    1. I have another problem..lol
    I have no time limit on battles. The Mongols only bring 1 ram and then i burn it. After that they just fall back a bit and stay there. It forces me to attack them. On top of that their catapults which are surrounding me on all 4 sides just sit there.

    How can i force them to attack me?

    2. Gunpowder just got discovered. This is the 1st time in a campaign i got to gunpowder (I usually play short and beat it by then). Is gunpowder any good against the Mongols?

    3. Tips how to use gunpowder units?

  9. #9

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    The most effective thing I've found against the Mongols is having a couple of trebuchets parked in cities that they like to besiege (I hold Gaza as the English and I've just fought off the 11th siege). It has enough range that it can batter them when they're sitting out of arrow range, and the rotting cattle soften them up for you to sally out (though usually the trebuchets alone will make them flee).

  10. #10

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    When playing has England I`ve oput some longbowmen almost right in front of the gate and them put Stakes in the ground so when the Mongols had breached my gates they stormed in and BOOM in the stakes with my longbows pouring arrows on them
    TIME TO DIE!!!! Proud Son of Viking Prince

  11. #11

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlam987 View Post
    First of all thanks for all the help

    1. I have another problem..lol
    I have no time limit on battles. The Mongols only bring 1 ram and then i burn it. After that they just fall back a bit and stay there. It forces me to attack them. On top of that their catapults which are surrounding me on all 4 sides just sit there.

    How can i force them to attack me?

    2. Gunpowder just got discovered. This is the 1st time in a campaign i got to gunpowder (I usually play short and beat it by then). Is gunpowder any good against the Mongols?

    3. Tips how to use gunpowder units?

    Some answers...

    1) It's weird that the Mongols have catapults and aren't using them. They might be "bugged" in some way. Try sending out a suicidal unit (whatever is the worst) to provoke them to attack. Are you sure they are on the battlemap itself and not standing right outside of it? In any case, next time try and not burn their rams (assuming that you targeted it with your archers in the first place). If it happens again, simply open your gates by having a unit stand right "on" it and they should come attack you.

    2) Gunpowder makes the Mongol armies obsolete...if you have the right units. Unfortunately, since you're playing as the Byzantines, you're in the same boat as the Mongols! Your army is becoming more and more outdated. For all intents and purposes, I don't think you can use gunpowder to any real advantages as you don't get higher-level gunpowder artillery (cannons/basilisks) or musketeers. Stick with your horse archer/heavy cavalry combination in the field or wait the Mongols out in your cities.

    3) Well for artillery, simply point them at approximately the middle of the enemy formation and have them shoot there. Do not using flaming shot as it makes things too inaccurate. Regular shot is the way to go, especially over time. For regular gunpowder units like musketeers, simply have them stand in the front ranks (gunpowder units must have line of sight or else they won't be able to fire at all...flat trajectory as opposed to angled ones with crossbows/archers) and fire at will or target them specifically against Mongol Heavy Cavalry/Horse Archer units. The musket fire will do a fair amount of damage, in addition, they will hurt the morale of the enemy troops significantly. Make sure you stop your gunpowder units from firing into the backs of your own troops though as that will cause them morale penalties as well. After the initial contact, simply use your musketeers to target either the very back ranks of the enemy or use them as a last ditch effort to hold the line while you make flanking manuvers.

  12. #12
    StickShift's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    in my Venetian campaign, i simply filled the streets with 8 or so Italian Spear Militia and lined the walls with 6 units of Venetian archers. the remaining slots were filled with a general, mortars/trebuchets to shoot over the walls, and maybe a few knights to help on the walls. the spearmen stop the cavalry at the gates while the archers rain flaming arrows onto their troops and siege engines. the nice thing about the venetian archers is that they can fight it out surprisingly well in melee too.

    while your spearmen aren't as good as my Italian troops, they will still serve the function of slaughtering the Mongol cavalry. as the byzantines you also have good archers (especially the byzantine guard archers) so you should be able to inflict massive casualties before they breach the walls.

    if the mongols bring siege engines, move your archers off the walls directly in front of them and have them shoot from a distance. plug the holes with your spearmen and watch the slaughter. get upgraded towers as soon as possible to increase the carnage.

    finally, if you keep the settlement on cyprus a castle you can use it to ship a constant stream of reinforcements to your cities in the Holy Land.
    Last edited by StickShift; February 17, 2007 at 06:44 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    time to take notes!

  14. #14

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    Cannon/ Balista towers are great, just sit back and watch the mongols being rained with lead and flaming arrows. And listen to stick shift he gave good advice.

  15. #15

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    I myself am having a wee bit of trouble keeping these hordes at bay.

    For the last 50 years my clan of scots have controlled the entire known world with the exception of the Egyptian south east corner. Then these hordes show up and take three territories from me just north of Jerusalem. For years now I have been trying to hold them back ((with the ENTIRE wealth and power of all Europe/easter Europe and north Africa at my disposal)).

    For every horde I destroy two seem to take its place, but I am finally starting to see their stacks weaken by brutal attrition.

    1) to respond to the bugged siege Mongols I have definitely run into that issue.
    I defended a citadel with 5 groups of half-dead highland archers and 2 nearly dead light calvary mercs and 3 half dead heavy inf (nobles) (from my successful siege taking a mongol settlement a few turn before). Two complete stacks assaulted me, one on each side of the castle. The main assaulters had 4 rams, 2 ladders and 2 towers. I destroyed one ram with a suicide unit of archers at the first gate and the other 3 rams as they neared the inner wall with massed archers and as they took the outerwalls with the towers so the outer gate remained intact. After that I managed to shoot/slaughter the main assaulters and caused a full chain route. As I followed them out I destroyed all their ladders and siege towers with the nobles.
    Soooo...what did the other stack do? Well, its had its 2 rocket groups hit my outer walls which damaged them - but they held. Then...they sat there. With no siege equipment ammo left and all the towers/ladders ruined they COULD NOT take my castle. But...they sat there...and sat...and since I had unlimited time on battles my patience lost before they moved. I sallied out and killed their general and about 1/2 their army but the rest did not move...although archers would fire back as I came in range. By then I had hardly any men left alive so I returned to my castle and sat until my patience gave out. I exited the battle (thus loosing) but I really should have won and would have if I had a time limit on.

    They need to fix the mongols AI and armies with NO way to enter a wall should RETREAT and continue the siege until a new turn. ((ie. fix unlimited battle stalemates))

  16. #16

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    The best way I've found to defeat the Mongols is to play to their weaknesses. Their main weakness is their cavalry-heavy composition. The best way to exploit this is to force them into sieging you.

    Cavalry can't operate siege engines nor can they scale walls. If you can reliably disable their rams, trebuchets and catapults, then you don't even need to fight their cavalry, and you only have to face their infantry. Their Foot Archers are laughable in melee, and even their capable Mongol Infantry are no match for a good unit of dismounted knights.

    Cannon towers can make this even easier and will often disable a ram right off the bat. If you don't have them in your border settlements, then you can send a suicide unit out to engage the soldiers who are operating the ram. By the time your suicide unit is dead, a siege tower or ladders will be at your walls and the Mongols will forget about their ram.

    If you can't take out the ram or if they have trebuchets, catapults or a lucky rocket artillery and you can't sally with cavalry to take them out, then you'll need to rely on a chokepoint defense. Once the breach is made, block it with spearmen. Lots of spearmen. If you have pikemen, you're in great shape and two units should do fine. If you are using armoured sergeants or the like, you'll want four units. If you have spear militia then six or more are probably best. In any event, you'll be surprised how relatively few spear units can battle off an entire Mongol stack.

    To defend a settlement against the mongols I'd ideally like to have four archer units, two dismounted knight or other heavy infantry units, two to four cavalry units for trebuchet/catapult/rocket elimination, and four to eight spear units. Settlements can be defended with fewer units than this, but this is a nice, secure set-up.

  17. #17

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    so whats better for defending the gateway; heavy infantry or spear/pike men?

  18. #18

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiringtheEnemyeh? View Post
    so whats better for defending the gateway; heavy infantry or spear/pike men?

    I would go with Pikemen but if you are the English put the stakes of the longbowmen in front right after the door in your walls
    TIME TO DIE!!!! Proud Son of Viking Prince

  19. #19

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    Thats a sneaky idea, seems a bit unfair for the AI though.

  20. #20

    Default Re: strategy againt the mongols?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiringtheEnemyeh? View Post
    Thats a sneaky idea, seems a bit unfair for the AI though.

    But the important thing is that it works very well and it`s a tactic that not much players I know tried
    TIME TO DIE!!!! Proud Son of Viking Prince

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