DarthMod Beta Team Only thread

[DARTH VADER]

DARTHMOD Beta-Team Thread
Moderated by Headlock, continuing on the fine tradition of NoRbAk

This is a closed thread which contains the summarised reports of the regular betatesting, and a single list of the most current and relevant bugs for testing/elimination. Best results are currently achieved on VH/VH. Please comment on this!)

Darth Vader periodically checks this thread and responds by reporting the fixes or notes.
And he is watching you right now....

Current DarthMod_M2TW beta testers:
Russ Mitchell
NoRbAk
Coman
Havoc04
G3N3RAL GR13V0US
PeteSKtemplar
Marine hoplite
JaM
IZ-master
The Border Reiver
RTR fan - Unconfirmed, 16.02.07

Any Bug reported by a BetaTeam member will be automatically included in the Current BugList.

However, please make certain it is a Bug, ie an obvious graphical, physics engine or combat/strategy error, rather than a personal like/dislike, hardware problem or hardcoded vanilla issue. (A list of the latter will follow in a few days)


----I will write in red as my lightsaber to respond on the thread---- (DARTH VADER)

[DARTH VADER]

Initial DarthMod Beta Team Drill 16/2/2007

Primary Objective (Unter OS19)

-Check my latest OS19 and the breakthrough2 file I attach in the OS thread. Play as many battles as you can to verify my findings and find possible inconsistencies. I know I have found something very important and will explain is short to the community and you.
In breakthrough file the new base animation vectors are:

mounted horses
-0.9 0 0 -0.9 2.5 1.3

General mounted horses
-0.9 0 0 -0.9 2.5 0.5

unshielded infantry
-0.09 0 0 -0.65 1.2 1.0

shielded light infantry
-0.7 0 0 -0.65 1.2 1.0

shielded heavy infantry
-0.95 0.6 0.0 -0.65 1.2 1.0

polearm infantry
-0.15 0 0 -0.95 1.2 1.2

2handed sword/axe infantry
-0.75 0 0 -0.75 1.2 1.2

and for cavalry mount:

0 0 45 0 0 0 0 0 0

and for elephant mount

0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0

A little explanation of my intuition/fantasy of dark side of how it works here:

-0.95 0.6 0.0 -0.65 1.2 1.0 are my vectors for the shielded heavy infantry

-0.95 = min effective pitch for left hand (animation node)

0.6 = max effective pitch for left hand (animation node)

0.0 = max effective pitch for right hand (animation node)

-0.65 = min effective pitch for right hand (animation node)

1.2 = probably works as an attack modifier for the skeleton (The bigger the more)

1.0 = probably works as a defense modifier for the skeleton (The bigger the less).I suspect that this works indirectly by making the non-visual skeleton to become more shrinked so less probability
to get a hit. Pls tell if you see more merging in high armoured vectors...I will explain below.

Paradigm:

So it means that shield now has a pitch from -0.95 to 0.6 and the attack weapon an effective pitch of 0.0 to -0.65.
To make it simple if we change the value from -0.5 to 0.5, we will have an effective radius of the troops of approx. 100 degrees in front arc.
If we make it -1.0 to 0.0 we have a 100 degrees effective arc in the left (if we talk for the left side of the skeleton).

The CA shield effective pitch was -0.090000004 0 (approx 9 degrees) so this is why it could not be triggered at all or seldomly and shield value did not count. Imagine a troop carrying a shield which protects him for a narrow 9 degree radius. And as I sense it the shield mechanism works like an effective animation point dot which maneuvres in the effective pitch. If the dot has a big value and the skill of the troop makes it effective to block the attack animation dot node, it succeeds the defense. But imagine the dot to travel only 9 degrees...

The armour system I incorporated works like this:

I take again the same vectors:
-0.95 0.6 0.0 -0.65 1.2 1.0

armour ug1

-0.95 0.6 0.0 -0.65 1.2 0.8

armour ug2

-0.95 0.6 0.0 -0.65 1.2 0.6

armour ug3

-0.95 0.6 0.0 -0.65 1.2 0.4

From my tests there is no controversy that it actually works and makes each upgrade to count more for the unit. You do not see the stats change but see it in the game.

I would like to know any side effects of all these new things and maybe if you find a different explanation for my vector theory.

I write all this not only for my beta team but for all the modding community to read and in concept of the open source theme, to evolve it.

For horse/mount animation vector there is only 1 important factor which I made it 45. (The previous was -1)
I noticed that it works like this:
When the cavalry charges some time before or after the charge, there is triggered an animation which tells how many mtrs or steps should the mount of skeleton try to move and then when it finishes to re-orientate and re-move.
The -1 made the cavalry to step slightly backwards, then trace a node, then -1 backwards etc.
The 45 makes it to travel a lot ahead 45 mtrs or steps and then again and again etc.
So this makes the cavalry a lot more mobile and effective since this was the power of the horse whatsoever.
The 45 value is the same as the typical charge value of the cavalry in EDU so it is not symptomatic.
I tried very big values but noticed that cavalry becomes too suicidal and does not spread too much than try to penetrate the front.
I think this value is the best.

Secondary Objective

-Try to test campaigns and see if the traitor issue is improved.
-Try as many battles to see the new effective AI and general outcomes of battles if it is better than ever. (On OS 19)

[Headlock]

CURRENT BUG LIST 2
ref: OS.19
NOTE: Some of the below bugs have probably been fixed at time of writing. This is a confirmation list- if no-one says a bug is still there it will be greyed-out, then removed & considered fixed.

Field Battles:
1. AI too often advances too far ahead with it's missile troops, making it very easy to erase them with early cavalry charge.
2. Archers loosen their formations and become intermingled too easily. Same with Musketeers,who should never really loosen their formation.
3. AI artillary intermingles as well, which affects firing; also often too close to the infantry, preventing firing. (Perhaps setting back, and further towars the two wings mught work)
4. Ai reinforcements do not appear on the battlefield where they were on the campaign map(occasionally)

Sieges:
1. If Ram crew are attacked once Gate is broken, and have not moved the ram away they abandon it to fight, but do not pick it up again to clear the gateway. Neither does anyone else.
2. AI Infantry still sometimes passive on captured wallls, although much reduced.
3. No siege equipment takes any damage at all until they reach the wall (Rams & Towers).

Campaign:
1. AI is not building religious buildings in Europe (OS.19 unconfirmed)
2. AI still uses minimum garrisons- should be more aware of potential striking distance of enemy armies, especially Human. (Is it possible to script AI to ALWAYS have a minimum of say 3-4 garrison? & twice now i have seen AI cities completely empty, and yet with 120% pop.order..)
3. AI very rarely builds Merchant Guilds. Llinked to AI personality. But really most AI should build them...)
4. Too easy to get into Papal good books, rampage around and still remain 100% in favour. (Perhaps the pope is too fixed- if he doesnt like you, youre doomed. If he does, your in heaven for the rest of the game. 50-75% Favour should be achievable; 100% should be very rare...? Absolutely better than vanilla though!)
5. Ai overuses spies even if your their ally

Miscellaneous
1. Torches in field/seige battles float offset from the models. (This is definitely caused by the new model.db; if anyone has any ideas how to fix this please tell.)


Any & all feedback is very welcome!
Please PM me directly.

Cheers,
HDK

NOTE: In order to keep this thread clean I will store buglists as a winrar file, available in the downloads section.

[Headlock]

BETA TEAM REPORTS for
Beta Team Drill 12/2/2007

1.

3) Please test the Model.db FIRST; it seems quite interesting and possibly critical to next full version of DM.


French Voulgier's 1 on 1 vs Spanish Sword and Buckler Men

French units were not given orders, Spanish units charged each time

Armor 0 vs Armor 0 - Battles 1-3 / averaged total loss 60 lost vs 37 killed, my generals killed
Armor 1 vs Armor 0 - Battles 4-6 / averaged near loss 61 lost vs 45 killed, my generals killed
Armor 2 vs Armor 0 - Battles 7-9 / averaged clear victory 44 lost vs 54 killed, enemy routing, both generals died

French Dismounted Chivalric Knight vs. Spanish Dismounted Chivalric Knight with both units charging

Armor 1 vs Armor 0 - Battles 10-14 / averaged clear victory 14 losses vs 40 killed, enemy routed, sometimes lost general

Armor 1 vs Armor 1- Battles 15-16 / averaged draw 32 losses vs 37 losses

Sundried testing of three units of pike versus sword and buckler men showed victory possible when partial armor upgrades exist in units. Losses drop by 20% for each unit that upgrades. If one unit has armor 2 and other units have 0 or 1, enemy tended to beat hard on the upgraded armor unit and continue fighting until nearly wiped out. In one battle the armor 2 pike unit destroyed one of the armor 0 S&B units with 30 men remaining.

Testing continues.

With OS 17 I'm playing as the English and Scots and French and Flemish rebels are totally passive under my archer units to the last man.

coman

These tests should be tested again with voulgier AI in OS 18. You will notice now that the AI will reach you by swapping phalanx/unphalanx timely

2.

i tested the model bd looks good
some wird thing is that at night battles the torches float means there not holding it = means that wheen they swing thier body eg attack using sword the other hands holding the torch with the force swings around wildly

All reports are appreciated
Cheers,
HDK

Professional reports! My endless gratitudes!

[NoRbAk]

@Headlock...

Wow! I wish I had had the time to start detailed reports like that in my old time as lead tester!!!!

It is a great job you are doing, and it shows that the apprentice always surpasses the power of the master... Congrats my young padawan! hahhahah

I can verify siege bugs 1, 3 and 5, so you can put them in black again (playing in OS17).

About breakthrough... I have seen that units seem to wave their shields much more around... but have seen some weird things: mercenary spears rout enemy peasant crosbowmen. As I watch closely, the routing xbows stop, giving their backs to the spears. I am looking at a spearman attacking a xbowman from the back, and he waves his shield and hits with his spear like 20 times as the xbowman does nothing. Immortal xbowman? The xbowman finally turns around and kills the spearman with a single dagger blow. OMG!!!

Apart from this weird thing... melee looks extremely cool, I was hipnotised watching it. Darth Vader is making M2TW what it should have been from the beggining...

POWER TO THE DARK SIDE!!!!

PD- did I say you are doing great, headlock? you are doing great. THANKS!

Heheh sneaky use of these spanky new moderator powers to say- Cheers! -HDK

[DARTH VADER]

Any beta testing report can from now on apply only to 1.3D .
Should anyone from the beta testing team, be idle for a long time and with no reason, must be removed from the list.

[DARTH VADER]

Projectile Research Post By Russ Mitchell(Will Update)

Not all composite bows are the same. There are three general types.
E1. Heavy composite bows that fire relatively slowly. These are often good against armor up to at least light mail, as they have specialized arrowheads for the task.
E2. Lighter composite bows known to not be good against heavy mail but with very rapid fire and relatively large quivers.
E3. Composite bows used with navak arrow guides, that shoot darts rather than arrows. These are not good against armor much at all, but they have a ridiculously long range, and the owner can carry a very large number of arrows/darts.

Similarly western bows have a couple categories:
W1. A heavy stickbow suitable for war.
W2. The ridiculously heavy longbow we think of when we think of the Hundred Years' War and the Venta among the Welsh.

And, of course, the crossbow, which is where western europe gets dangerous.

Units using E1: Hungary, Cumans, Venetian, Balkan, Bosnian, Moors, all Steppe archers. Higher AP bonuses to Moors, Magyars, Cumans, Siculo-Norman archers, Tatars, due to the survival of specific chronicle references in which individuals are killed through armor and/or shields.
Units using E2: Byzantines, Rus, "Persians"
Units using E3: Desert Arabs, Turkish archers and horse-archers, including Akinjis, but not including any of the late Ottoman Turkish Yeniceri-type or other archers (these shoot E1), nor heavier Turkish archers meant for close-combat (these are in E1 like the Moors).

Lithuanians are not known to me on a professional basis. Probably like the Rus.

Units using W1: All western types unless specifically noted.
Units using W2: Sherwoods, Yeoman archers, Welsh Mercs (this should represent the Venta tribe of ultra-heavy archers plying its wares), and Nubian archers. Yes, the Nubians: they were known to shoot extremely powerful stickbows, and were highly sought-after in Egypt for that reason.
========================================
How you represent this is something you know better than me. It can be by approving the EDU #s or by playing with models.

Random notes --
Mongols are not ethnically homogenous, therefore we cannot say that their archery is better than some other steppe peoples' archery. The differences are actually very small, and it is other factors that make the Mongols dangerous.

Bulgarian Brigands should be template for standard light infantry for Hungary, Wallachia, and Bulgaria.

Other discoveries would have to run inside beta testing... that would take time.