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Thread: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

  1. #1

    Default Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    As mods become more and more complicated, the pressure grows on modders to join their efforts rather than individually develop comprehensive, mutually incompatible, modifications. This pressure is likely to lead to the development of several comprehensive mods over the next half-year or so. At the time being, however, players have a bewildering array of mods at their disposal with no clear indication how to combine their favourite ones.

    In UAI, for instance, v1.2 (and some earlier versions) introduced changes that do not necessarily change the AI. These are high quality changes that all strive to make the game more challenging, but they overlap with similar changes that other mods may have done in the past.

    For example, Lusted's Lands to Conquer introduces changes in building times, and so does the UAI. This was not a problem in the past because we could use just a portion of the UAI and thus keep using the LtC building times. Now, however, the UAI incorporates the Real Armour mod (which I find VERY interesting), but which Lusted himself said is completely incompatible with LtC.

    The result is complete confusion. At the time being, I have to use the old version of LtC, which does not have updated UAI nor the newest DarthMod changes, but has the building time adaptations that I find the most to my liking. I cannot make any changes to the LtC myself because I do not know what to change...

    May I therefore kindly ask for an overview of the changes in UAI files? Which files in the data folder modify what? Are there contingencies between files?

    Thank you very much for your help!
    Last edited by prase; February 10, 2007 at 09:24 AM. Reason: Put the question mark in the topic title to avoid confusion as to topic's topic.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Basically, the AI Diplomacy modifications are found in the following three files:

    descr_campaign_ai_db.xml - custom AI profiles
    descr_diplomacy.xml - settings for the human player interacting with the AI in the diplomacy screen
    descr_faction_standing.txt - trigger / event definitions that define the effects of a factions diplomatic actions

    These are compatible with every mod that does not include a diplomacy mod component (for example, the full DarthMod is therefore not compatible)

    The following three files have been modified by GrandViz to improve the performance of the AI but they are not included in every mod that uses his AI (or they use a modified version, such as the descr_character in LTC):

    descr_campaign_db.xml - some general campaign settings
    descr_character.txt - used to define some general settings for units on the campaign map, i use it to redefine the movement rates
    descr_sm_factions.txt - used to enable naval landings


    All other files are related to Grandviz's custom imperial campaign and are therefore not strictly necessary for enjoying the benefits of his AI enhancements. These files are the ones most likely to interfere with other mods and it would probably be best not to try to mix and match them.

    Please note the installation instructions here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76566

    If you are not using Grandviz's desc_strat file (and you should not if you are using other large mods such as LTC), then you need to make the manual changes listed.
    Last edited by Froggie5; February 10, 2007 at 05:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Arksa's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    IMO Grandviz should just stay in the path of diplomacy and A.I behaviour.
    As it is now, the mod has started to get more and more features that doesn't include AI improvements, thus being quite hard for some to use this mod with other mods.

  4. #4
    GrandViZ's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arksa View Post
    IMO Grandviz should just stay in the path of diplomacy and A.I behaviour.
    As it is now, the mod has started to get more and more features that doesn't include AI improvements, thus being quite hard for some to use this mod with other mods.
    Well, as this is my mod I decide what aspects I would like to change or not. AI behavior heavily relies on settlement mechanics, on recruitment modifiers in the building tree. Furthermore to initialize the mod properly you should copy the changes to the descr_strat.txt as well. These initialize AI relations and determine the further development in the campaign.

    Regards
    GrandViZ
    Creator of the Ultimate AI
    Co-Author of Broken Crescent

    Under the Patronage of Trajan

  5. #5
    Arksa's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    ok I'll do that. Like i said it's just my opinion do what you want to do with your mod I'll still use the A.I part of it.

  6. #6
    Queen Annes Revenge's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    i agree with arksa. i think the vanilla version is fine except for the poor performance of the AI, which is really all i want out of this mod. i request that you make a 'lite' version of UAI, removing the changes to settlement mechanics, building trees, objectives, and battle mechanics. i think this game is way too long as it is and i can't stand all the mods that make the game 1ypt and the slower combat.

    so, my question is, if i only install these files:
    descr_campaign_ai_db.xml - custom AI profiles
    descr_campaign_db.xml - some general campaign settings
    descr_diplomacy.xml - settings for the human player interacting with the AI in the diplomacy screen
    descr_faction_standing.txt - trigger / event definitions that define the effects of a factions diplomatic actions
    descr_sm_factions.txt - used to enable naval landings

    ...Is the AI still going to throw armies full of crap units at me?
    And for the love of god is there any way to make the AI lead its stacks with generals? this is the most annoying thing about the AI imo.
    Last edited by Queen Annes Revenge; February 10, 2007 at 03:03 PM.

  7. #7
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    ...Is the AI still going to throw armies full of crap units at me?
    Yes because changes in other files make the ai field better armies.

    And for those using LTC i recommend only using these files from UAI as other files GrandViz includes in his mod would interfere with changes i've made.

    descr_campaign_ai_db.xml
    descr_diplomacy.xml
    descr_faction_standing.txt
    Last edited by Lusted; February 11, 2007 at 10:11 AM.
    Creator of:
    Lands to Conquer Gold for Medieval II: Kingdoms
    Terrae Expugnandae Gold Open Beta for RTW 1.5
    Proud ex-Moderator and ex-Administrator of TWC from Jan 06 to June 07
    Awarded the Rank of Opifex for outstanding contributions to the TW mod community.
    Awarded the Rank of Divus for oustanding work during my times as Administrator.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusted View Post
    And for those using LTC i recommend only using these files from LTC
    I believe this sentence should rather read "and for those using LTC i recomment only using these files from UAI"?

    Thank you for everyone's assistance here. It was not my intention to criticize GrandViz, whose work I admire and, perhaps more importantly, greatly enjoy on a daily basis .

    It is just my opinion that perhaps it may be a wise move (in terms of amount of work) for the mods to start cooperating in harmonizing parts of each others' mods. I truly believe that in six months from now a smaller number of larger modifications will be the most prevalent modding projects. If this belief is true, then it makes no sense for GrandViz and Darth and Lusted and Point Blank to be working on mutually incompatible modifications: that would be a true waste of creativity, intellect and work. Rather, if they desire it so, they should work together when they broaden the original scope of their mods (eg. campaign AI for Grandviz, battle AI for Darth).

    I, of course, completely endorse that modders should do the kind of modifications they want. If they choose not to collaborate with someone else, it is their perfect right and I am still equally amazed and grateful for the work they are doing. May I just ask in that case to include in their installation instructions, as UAI had from the beginning, to specify which files modify what? I think that the community will be able to write guides on combining parts of popular mods with time if modders specify which files modify what.

    Thank you all

  9. #9
    GrandViZ's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusted View Post
    Yes because changes in other files make the ai field better armies.

    And for those using LTC i recommend only using these files from LTC as other files GrandViz includes in his mod would interfere with changes i've made.

    descr_campaign_ai_db.xml
    descr_diplomacy.xml
    descr_faction_standing.txt
    Don't forget the updated changes to the descr_strat.txt for AI faction initialization. These changes are very important to avoid passive behavior in the long run.

    Furthermore the new settlement mechanics are worth a try for those that enjoy realistic growth rates, and a more challenging campaign.

    Best regards
    GrandViZ
    Creator of the Ultimate AI
    Co-Author of Broken Crescent

    Under the Patronage of Trajan

  10. #10

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusted View Post
    Yes because changes in other files make the ai field better armies.

    And for those using LTC i recommend only using these files from LTC as other files GrandViz includes in his mod would interfere with changes i've made.

    descr_campaign_ai_db.xml
    descr_diplomacy.xml
    descr_faction_standing.txt
    What about the descr_sm_factions.txt file? Is it bad that Im GrandViz's descr_sm_factions.txt file?

    BTW lusted, you havent changed the AI profiles and diplomacy section in your newest version of LTC!
    It's probably because v2.1 LTC doesnt use v1.2 Ultimate AI, but I wanted to be sure. So, are you updating the descr_strat changes of Ultimate AI in every new version of your mod?
    Last edited by Commintern; February 11, 2007 at 01:41 AM.





  11. #11

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrandViZ View Post

    Furthermore the new settlement mechanics are worth a try for those that enjoy realistic growth rates, and a more challenging campaign.
    Yes, I am very interested in this, but how can I combine DarthMod with these changes? If it was possible to keep your movement rates on the campaign map and Darth's battle AI, I would walk away from the (now unfortunately) very obsolete LtC and combine just you and Darth.

    But there's no guide how to combine portions of UAI and Darth, and there are things with either UAI or Darth that I don't like when I use the entire combination, so I have to stick to LtC. Hope LtC gets updated soon.

    PS: I opened this topic here because so many modders use UAI. This topic could otherwise easily have been opened anywhere else (no particular problems with UAI as a mod).

  12. #12

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by prase View Post
    Yes, I am very interested in this, but how can I combine DarthMod with these changes? If it was possible to keep your movement rates on the campaign map and Darth's battle AI.
    This is quite easy - simply download the Dath Formations War Pack:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76132

    This download contains all the key files for Darth's Battle AI, none of which interfere with Ultimate AI. You might also want to include Darth's descr_projectile from either the full Ultimate AI or Darth's Open Source download (Same file).

    In general the key to avoiding conflict in combining mods is 1. read the readme/installation instructions. 2. Do a visual comparison of the files - when in doubt unzip mod files into a new folder and copy files by hand into the mod data folder.

    Don't be afraid to get under the hood and tinker with the files either (just always make a backup) - for example, I don't care for add/remove money scripts myself and just cut that portion out of the Ult AI campaign script.

    I will mention this on the 1.2 feedback thread as well, but it is really essential that anyone using the Real Combat files also uses Zxiang 1983's fix for the 2-handed bug. See the first page of the Real Combat thread:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82671
    Last edited by Froggie5; February 11, 2007 at 07:24 AM.

  13. #13
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    hat about the descr_sm_factions.txt file? Is it bad that Im GrandViz's descr_sm_factions.txt file?
    No its not bad i just dont recommend it.

    BTW lusted, you havent changed the AI profiles and diplomacy section in your newest version of LTC!
    It's probably because v2.1 LTC doesnt use v1.2 Ultimate AI, but I wanted to be sure. So, are you updating the descr_strat changes of Ultimate AI in every new version of your mod?
    I have changed the ai profiles, just check the descr_strat in my mod. I haven't changed the faction standings at the bottom of the file as im going to be making my own changes to it.

    Furthermore the new settlement mechanics are worth a try for those that enjoy realistic growth rates, and a more challenging campaign.
    My mod includes its own settlement mechanics as its a 1 year per turn campaign.

    It is just my opinion that perhaps it may be a wise move (in terms of amount of work) for the mods to start cooperating in harmonizing parts of each others' mods. I truly believe that in six months from now a smaller number of larger modifications will be the most prevalent modding projects. If this belief is true, then it makes no sense for GrandViz and Darth and Lusted and Point Blank to be working on mutually incompatible modifications: that would be a true waste of creativity, intellect and work. Rather, if they desire it so, they should work together when they broaden the original scope of their mods (eg. campaign AI for Grandviz, battle AI for Darth).
    Modders will work on what thay want to, and that generally means overlapping modifications.
    Creator of:
    Lands to Conquer Gold for Medieval II: Kingdoms
    Terrae Expugnandae Gold Open Beta for RTW 1.5
    Proud ex-Moderator and ex-Administrator of TWC from Jan 06 to June 07
    Awarded the Rank of Opifex for outstanding contributions to the TW mod community.
    Awarded the Rank of Divus for oustanding work during my times as Administrator.

  14. #14
    GrandViZ's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusted View Post
    I haven't changed the faction standings at the bottom of the file as im going to be making my own changes to it.
    You should know, that wrong initialization can lead to passive AI behavior. Please make sure, to test the effects of your changes, as I would like to prevent the "AI is totally dumb passive" posts.

    Regards
    GrandViZ
    Creator of the Ultimate AI
    Co-Author of Broken Crescent

    Under the Patronage of Trajan

  15. #15
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    You should know, that wrong initialization can lead to passive AI behavior. Please make sure, to test the effects of your changes, as I would like to prevent the "AI is totally dumb passive" posts.
    Don't worry im going to test it thoroughly.
    Creator of:
    Lands to Conquer Gold for Medieval II: Kingdoms
    Terrae Expugnandae Gold Open Beta for RTW 1.5
    Proud ex-Moderator and ex-Administrator of TWC from Jan 06 to June 07
    Awarded the Rank of Opifex for outstanding contributions to the TW mod community.
    Awarded the Rank of Divus for oustanding work during my times as Administrator.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Hi GrandViz!

    What if I want to combine other Mod with your Mod? how would I do that? Specificly I would like to use Med. Lite ver.1f with your mod. Is that possible?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    I have a question about combining this mod with the Medieval2 lite mod.

    In the M2Lite mod forums I read the following:

    Is this (M2Lite) mod compatible with other mods?
    This mod uses the mod switch protocol. So yes, as long as you install the other mods with the mod switch correctly, it's compatible. This mod will install itself as it's own mod subfolder and own start-up .bat.

    So how exactly do es this allow me to run both mods?

  18. #18

    Default Guide to combining UAI 1.3 and Darth War AI

    Thank you all for your help here. In return, I am offering a step-by-step guide to combining UAI 1.3 and Darth's War AI.

    What do you get when you follow this guide?
    - everything that comes with UAI 1.3
    - Darth's War AI
    - mercenaries that were unexpectedly omitted from 1.3
    - normal campaign map walking distances

    1. Download and install UAI 1.3
    - the file and the guide is located at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83074

    2. Download and install zxiang1983's fix for 2-handed combat. Make sure to backup your original files because you may need them for other mods!
    - the file and the guide is located at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74094

    3. Download and install the descr_mercenaries.txt file which Grand forgot in the 1.3 version
    - put the file in the folder M2TW/ultimateAI/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign
    - the file is located at
    http://www.file-upload.net/download-...aries.txt.html

    3. Download and install Darth's War AI
    - put the file in the folder M2TW/ultimateAI/data/
    - the file and the guide is located at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1026

    4. Download and install the file descr_character.txt that includes normal campaign map marching distances (the default by Darth is VERY long)
    - put the file in the M2TW/ultimateAI/data/ folder
    - the file is located at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...4&d=1169373103
    - generally, it is also possible to use the descr_character.txt file from other mods to suit your preferences. I am using the file from Lands to Conquer mod myself.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    Congrats,well done!
    You can also use the more recent Darth´s War Ai files from the last OS19:

    1-battle_config.xml
    2-config_ai_battle.xml
    3-descr_battle_movement_modifiers.txt
    4-descr_formations_ai.txt
    5-descr_pathfinding.txt

  20. #20

    Default Re: Guide to combining other mods with UAI?

    How do I make UAI run with Blood, Broads, & Bastards ??

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