6.0 bad release

**sftonix** · February 08, 2007, 02:46 PM

i'm sorry, but this mod is too hard to play. even with WRE or ERE this game is absolutely UNPLAYABLE. too barbarians, too rebellious cities, too high cost of troups, too high level of unrest ( in my opinion this is a bug of the game ), and finally 30000 denarii at turn of debt ( for WRE ) are very frustrating to managing.

i really hope in 6.1 release.......

**Pompeius Magnus** · February 10, 2007, 06:27 AM

Another User who saw the light

I mean the high unit costs are realistic. The late antique army was very expensive. This should stay in the new build.
But I agree with all other points of view.

You have some a-historic solutions in the game:
1) agressive expansion with all your troops (and you have a lot from the beginning). Means: you conquer one province by another and your income increases.
My question now is: Had the west-romans the possibility to to that in the year 410???? The answer is: NO, they hadn´t!!
Most of the troops fought in the so called barbarian style. The majority were barbarians. Thanx to the general Stilicho who lived some years ago. He tried to fix the frontier-problems with these kind of troops. But this is another story. But according my sources (and I have a lot!) most of the legions in the time of Aetius had only 300-600 men. More and more cavallery was used. His coalition against Atilla was formed of Germans. Only few thousands were "real" romans. The exactly number is not known, but it is very possible that there weren´t more than 8000-10000 romans. On the other side the German allied-tribes formed the core of his coalition. 4-5 times more than romans. This amount is realistic.

Solution number2 for your money problem is to erase/delete most of your troops when you start the game. The question in this moment is: This is that what a roman general (or emperor) does when the enemy (in this case the goths) stands in front of Rome?? Of course not.

That makes the game unplayable for the west-romans!!!

**Soulghast** · February 10, 2007, 06:35 AM

There is a 6.5 quickfix out, and if you want my opinion, I really enjoy this mod. And it isn't very nice to start threads like "bad release". Total Conversion mods are very hard to create and extremely time consuming. It takes a huge amount of energy from you. Seeing threads like "bad release" really disheartens the modders. If you wanted to say that there are some bugs, you could start a thread like "I had a bug", "annoying bug" ETC.

**Pompeius Magnus** · February 10, 2007, 06:47 AM

Yes you are right. Maybe next time we can use another topic/thread name! The name "bad release" is not very intelligent. IBFD6.X is the best BI based mod.

But back to the facts:
With the quick fix 6.5 nothing is fixed according the bad gameplay for the west-romans!!!
Read carefully the other posts, also that what I wrote. When a user is playing the east-romans or the sasanids maybe you don´t feel that. But most of the user who are playing the west-romans are frustrated. There are a lot of historical discrepancies. The unrest situation is terrible due to the extremly growing of the population. There are too much romanized troops and so on... and so on...
Also Ramon recognized that!!! He included (acc. his build list) some new fixes in his new build.

**Mylae** · February 10, 2007, 07:49 AM

what makes romans problematic is the manteinance of he army and the bad military situation. however, they should have more money and less buildable stuff, 410 was not time of engineering and edification of roman acqueducts. this will be fixed next ver.

also, if you have suggestion to improve the game, tell us.

**Pompeius Magnus** · February 10, 2007, 08:13 AM

Yes. I have a lot of suggestions. I can prepare a list and after that I can open an own thread or I can send the list via private message to you.

But maybe it is better to wait with this list. A lot of people will be very happy when the new patch is coming out.
Maybe after the release it makes more sense to talk about new items.

Up to you

**Mylae** · February 10, 2007, 10:43 AM

maybe not. open a "suggestion thread", we could include something in our patch.

**sftonix** · February 10, 2007, 10:55 AM

excuse me guys, but if you say that WRE in "condamned" by his historical events starting from 410, so i have to realize that the mod, whit WRE, is unplayable cause of the previous matters.

so my question is: if the WRE is condamned "a priori" by history, what does his presence mean within the mod as a playable faction? according to your opinions playing WRE is a lost case....

**cherryfunk** · February 10, 2007, 12:02 PM

Changing the start date to 400AD would give the WRE more of a fighting chance...

**Mylae** · February 10, 2007, 12:21 PM

nope. WRE is intended playable, as well as the mod is intended in 410. only so we could have such a particular timeframe, with Alaric, Honorius, Constantinus III, ans the mithical Siegfrid.
there are other playable factions. if you don't enjoy WRE, try ERE or the most desperate imperium constantini, really doomed to be wiped out in few turns according to history. HOWEVER, is up to the player get the challenge and change history

**Elrond** · February 12, 2007, 04:59 PM

I have won as the WRE on M/M after going into 297k of debt - as long as you have made the right preparations, choose were to attack carefully and have enough troops then you can win.

**Edvinsen** · February 12, 2007, 05:11 PM

Plyaing as WRE now. I have turned all my Provinces into pagan. And I left all my provinces expect the one's in italy

I crushed the Horde that was on the doorstep of Rome.

Here's a pciture

BTW, Why do only get christian generals?

**Mylae** · February 12, 2007, 07:36 PM

because christiandom was dominant religion

you have imposed paganesim in the cities, but you have not imposed it as state religion. the state religion is that of your faction leader.

and if you see the percentage of christians and pagans, you will see that get pagans dominant will just increase disorder.

**Pompeius Magnus** · February 13, 2007, 11:00 AM

Well,
the idea with your suggestion thread is very good. I will do that.
First of all I will make a complete list according all discrepancies. For all provinces. I recongnized that some problems are known, also for the military things.
So my list will not be very long. I think there are only minor items left.

By the way:
I think there are some little misunderstandings according the west-roman faction.
I don´t think that this faction is too hard to play. It is possible of course!!
That what I mean is the way how to play the west-roman faction.
I can fix my money problems with little tricks like deleting the most expensive army-units and/or an early agressive expansion and so on and so on.
And that's what I mean: Sometimes I don't have the feeling that I play a falling nation.
I can only speak for myself. I like it to play in a historic way. But the goths are moving in italy from north to south and back to the north and than again to south. They don't attacked my cities. Where are the exciting moments??
In some cases they moved to france and I helped them (with my diplomates) to found the Tolossian Empire. But this happened very rare. In the most cases I was forced to kill all west-goths in italy. Pitty
The other thing is that the vandals are always moving north. I gave them some cities but the AI is not able to hold the cities. Some turns later there is a loyalist-rebellion. The damaged city is mine again and the vandals are my enemys again.
Is it not possible to script the vandal moving? With a scripting the vandals are forced to attack my spanish cities and after this they can move to north africa.
I can give a lot of other examples.
I know that the creative assembly AI is sometimes very stupid in general. Most of my examples are AI problems! I know that.
Is it possible to "help" the stupid AI? This could be the key for a better gameplay for the west-romans!

**Artaserse** · February 13, 2007, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by sftonix

i'm sorry, but this mod is too hard to play. even with WRE or ERE this game is absolutely UNPLAYABLE. too barbarians, too rebellious cities, too high cost of troups, too high level of unrest ( in my opinion this is a bug of the game ), and finally 30000 denarii at turn of debt ( for WRE ) are very frustrating to managing.

i really hope in 6.1 release.......

vanilla BI, had the same difficulty with the WRE, so i dont think the modders should make the game easier than vanilla. It is really fun to survive with the WRE.
Regarding the unit costs, that could be im used to EB, so i dont find the upkeep costs too hight. Dont even speak of Barbarians that have almost 0 upkeep costs.

So i see no point.

**Naughteous Maximus** · February 25, 2007, 04:11 PM

:hmmm: I'm playing WRE at the hardest settings and rebuilding the empire.
It took alot of trial and error before I stumbled upon the best method of saving the WRE. It is hard to play but not impossible. I try to only use the Roman units when possible, the Foderates don't have the stamina for a long engagement. I also stick to infantry over cavalry to keep expenses down. Stick with Italy, forget everything else, rebuild your trade / economy in just Italy and I disbanded all the Foderates I had, most of the navy, all units in Iberia and Africa and withdrew my good units into Italy.On the first turn, I destroyed all buildings I could in rebellious cities,and used this income to build ports / trade facilities in Italy. Destroy the Visigoths is very important because once they are gone, you can disband your cavalry, and reduce your army till You have enough just to hold onto Italy. It took me about 15 turns before I started turning a profit.