After a successfull crusade?

**Andy P** · February 05, 2007, 10:58 AM

Do you try and hang onto your conquest or simply give it back up to the original owners without too much of a fight?

I am playing LTC 2.1 on VH/H settings, my gallant Spaniards conquered Antioch as the successfull culmination of a Holy Crusdade in the year 1192. It is now 1212 and I am still being battered by relentless attacks from the previous owners the Turks. I have had to buy them off with a huge bribe for a ceasefire, to give my beleagured garrison a chance to retrain and patch up the city walls, but I am under no illusion as to this ceasefire lasting.

In between attacks I have spent a fair bit of money developing the place and have managed to convert the majority of the population to the Holy Mother Church, and I will be dammed if I am going to give my hard fought for prize up.

Problem is that my whole campaign seems to have become bogged down, and focused almost solely on keeping Antioch, while my armies at home are doing nothing more than keeping my frontiers secure from the French & Germans who are sniffing about for a weakness in my defences.

Should I swallow my pride and allow my punch drunk garrison to beat an hounorable retreat, or do I fight to the bitter end for my toehold in the middle east?

**mr.blonde** · February 05, 2007, 11:03 AM

Fight, dont give Antioch back, if i was in your place i would gathered a reasonable sum of troops from the Antioch garisson and i would go for Acre or Aleppo

. Anyway it seems to me that you have a challenging campaign.Enjoy it

**dutch81** · February 05, 2007, 11:06 AM

Give up the holy land to those heathens? This is not even a serious question ... it is your duty to hold on to the holy lands no matter the consequences no matter if it means the demise of your 'home country'. After all even if the HRE or France occupy those lands of yours they are still keeping it in the safe hands of the only true faith. Spain will simply have become a crusader state in the true sense of the word ... and it will give you the means to expand from antioch and recapture the rest of the holy land. Perhaps you should give your lands away for safe keeping to some faction of your choosing to focus on precisely this!

**ZaPPPa** · February 05, 2007, 12:19 PM

Depending on how much troops I need back home I either hold on or let it rebel. Sack the city, put the most decimated unit in the garrison (1 single spearman can keep the enemy out for a full turn), destroy all buildings, put taxes on very high and let the fun begin.
It generally takes a very long time for the neighbouring factions to retake the city and when they do, there's nothing there. While they concentrate on retaking the city, I got one less enemy to worry about.

So far in my campaigns, I've never held on to a far away city. It is a complete waste of resources. Unless I am a neighboring faction, I will let it rebel. Strategically it is a much better option. Besides, when the enemy finally retakes the city, I can always ask the pope to declare another crusade to a different city of the same faction... Heh, lots of money, lots of fame!

**Sonny WiFiHr** · February 05, 2007, 12:20 PM

Expand around Antioh.There is plenty of castles.Attack attack attack.The best defense is good old offense.

**Viper_tempest** · February 05, 2007, 12:52 PM

Well, if you want to play you game on a roleplay style, you fight to keep it, no matter the cost. However i find this very expensive and tiresom in the long run as, as you pointed out almost all you do is concentrate on that settlement.

If you dont want to roleplay it, then give it up. First reason, is the huge amount of money it most likely is costing you. 2th, if you mongols didnt appear yet, they WILL take that settlement from you. no chance in hell can you defend a settlement that far away from home from the devastating forces the mongols appear with, and they will most likely run over all obstickles and take antioch from you =)

Just my 2 cents.

**Papal_Knight** · February 05, 2007, 01:08 PM

I try to stick it out depending upon what the target of the Crusade was. if it's a "high profile" holyland spot, I'll try to hold it. but, as the guys said above, it's financially draining to do so. and any building up you do there is subject to waste, as you probably can't hold it forever if it's far away from your main provinces.

sometimes, the best asnswer is to "torch & run" as I call it (and someone mentioned above). after holding it for a respectable amount of time (if possible), torch the place and head back home on some boats. leave one unit in there and see what happens (like someone said above).

the strategic withdrawal approach is even more called for if you have a heavy presence of veteran units and perhaps a worthy general or 2 that deserve saving!! let them live to fight another day. this torch & sail away withdrawal is easiest in provinces like Alexandria, Acre and Jerusalem. it's much harder even if you are in-land just a bit more (Cairo, and some of the Turkish provinces around the holy land(s)).

man, I love this game.

**Azog 150** · February 05, 2007, 02:50 PM

I had a simular problem with the spaniards, today in fact. I had just taken Jerusulum from the mighty egyptions with a army made up mostly of merceneries, so the up keep costs became high.

I took it around 1156 and kept it till about 1170 where my galliant general and his men died defending it. I had disbanded most of my men then ans many of them became difficult to keep on limited ammount of cash, plus most of my units had been severly depleted due to the 6 seiges i had previously defended.

Now i wish i had abandoned the city and returned home to the moors who have recently declared war, but it did make for some fun, atmospherical battles. My advice is return home if your situation on the peninsular is looking bad, but if not stay. If anything it makes for some decent battles.

**Papal_Knight** · February 05, 2007, 03:00 PM

I forgot to add that my advice above changes slightly with the advent of gun powder. if you can get cannon towers built in your city before you get sieged, you can hold on forever almost.

the cannons have a range, such that when you are sieged, you just sally out the next chance you get. make sure all your front-facing towers are "manned" by placing guys at the right spots on the wall. when the battle starts, the cannons immediately engage the seiging guys.

the AI on the cannons is smart, and it goes for the enemy seige towers, catapults, and trebuchets first. it a thing of beauty. also, keep a crappy unit at the gate to zip in and out to lure the seigers closer if they back off.

you can then destroy the seiging army. works like a charm.

**Opellulo** · February 06, 2007, 04:36 AM

I got a very funny roleplay situation in my campaign: i took jerusalem winning a crusade but i was driven off by religius unrest only two turns after. So i got a huge, veteran, "runaway army" that continued to "torch and go" other settlements (Antioch, Aleppo, and Acre). After 5-6 years they were no more than surrounded, hiding brigands but...

...a friendly Pope called another crusade against Jerusalem: they were Crusaders once more!

I think a Crusade must be properly prepared with priests, spies, assassins and alliances... Otherways it can turns in a money drying, enemy enraging, cities uresting, alliance breaking failure: History teaches!

**Tom Servo** · February 06, 2007, 06:49 AM

I usually just destroy everything, abandon it and attack a city in the south and try to keep that one. This way i sandwiched egypt with the moors attacking from the left so they are almost gone.

**Andy P** · February 06, 2007, 10:28 AM

Hmm, interesting and mixed bag of opinions.

My garrison although it has been wittled down are now all tear yer throat out, battle hardened maniacs, three silver or gold chevron experienced the lot of them. Even the couple of units of spear militia I have are ripping the inexperienced elites of the Turkish forces a new one. It is fun to see the dismounted lancers of the Turks being ripped apart by my pressganged militia.

It is getting to to stage now that my army is just about invincible against even numbered or even very much larger armies, however as the Mongols have just arrived at Baghdad, I feel it may be time to take my vets home for a well earned rest and refit before unleashing them on my unsuspecting European neighbours.

Even such an effective fighting force as my crusading army will not be able to stand up to the overwhelming numbers of the horde.

I wish I knew how to do the screnshot thingy so as to be able to show my army's unit cards. They are the hardest bunch of muthas it has ever been my pleasure to command in many years of Total Warring.

**Papal_Knight** · February 06, 2007, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Andy P

I wish I knew how to do the screnshot thingy so as to be able to show my army's unit cards. They are the hardest bunch of muthas it has ever been my pleasure to command in many years of Total Warring.

use the "print screen" button on your keyboard. then open an app like MS Paint. paste to that, save it. voila!

**Douchebag** · February 06, 2007, 03:18 PM

Hmm. Samething happened to me. Except, it was Constantinople, and the Muslims declared Jihad. They had about 4 armies, fully stacked, waiting to attack. I had a full stack which consists of, Forlorn Hope, one of my family members, Armored spearsmen, dismounted gothic knights, dismounted imperial knights, trebuchet, and a town militia. I beat the living **** out of them. Now half my buildings are ****ed up, and I only have 4 units defending the city. Thankly, their Jihad failed - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Bastards....