Page 35 of 126 FirstFirst ... 102526272829303132333435363738394041424344456085 ... LastLast
Results 681 to 700 of 2518

Thread: Hamas attacks southern Israel

  1. #681
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    15,969
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Siblesz, You have not mentioned the Jewish terrorist groups obviously prior to the creation of the state of Israel and the violent actions carried out by the state of Israel outside the country and its support/sale of weapons to dictatorial or racist regimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    People are automatically eligible for Israeli citizenship if they are Jewish or have at least one Jewish grandparent (or are the spouse, child, or stepchild of anyone who is eligible). Israel rescued tens of thousands of Ethiopians who met that requirement. These were people who for the most part had no skills for the modern job market since they were illiterate subsistence farmers, and many had permanent mental deficits due to severe malnutrition, so have required state financial assistance for decades.

    Does your country rescue people by the tens of thousands from war zones and care for them indefinitely? The conditions are terrible in Ethiopia right now, so why has no other country gone to Ethiopia to airlift all the rest of the Ethiopians to their country if it’s supposedly “disgusting” not to do so?

    Before it was easy and inexpensive to test blood samples for HIV, the US had the same rule, but I see you have decided that we Jews are as uncivilized as you have claimed Koreans are. At least we are in good company.
    You continue to ignore the proven existence of discrimination against Ethiopian Jews (Arabs and Africans in general) in Israeli society. Has any other group of Jews had as much trouble being accepted in the country as the last batch of Ethiopians? Would a white Jew from Hamburg have as much trouble being recognized as an Israeli as them? At this point I am sure that when it was decided to welcome all the Jews of the world, a good group of Israeli politicians were racking their brains to leave Arabs and Africans on the sidelines.

    (If anyone here has ever said that Israel is not a Jewish state, try asking for citizenship.)
    Last edited by mishkin; October 28, 2023 at 03:33 AM.

  2. #682

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    You continue to ignore the proven existence of discrimination against Ethiopian Jews (Arabs and Africans in general) in Israeli society.
    Nonsense, all societies have issues with discrimination. It's just that not all societies are constantly put under the microscope by the world at large and regularly subjected to libelous exaggerations and nonsensical allegations of nefarious intent.

    Quoting the aforementioned article:

    For centuries, stateless Jews played the role of a lightning rod for ill will among the majority population. They were a symbol of things that were wrong. Did you want to make the point that greed was bad? Jews were greedy. Cowardice? Jews were cowardly. Were you a Communist? Jews were capitalists. Were you a capitalist? In that case, Jews were Communists. Moral failure was the essential trait of the Jew. It was their role in Christian tradition—the only reason European society knew or cared about them in the first place.

    Like many Jews who grew up late in the 20th century in friendly Western cities, I dismissed such ideas as the feverish memories of my grandparents. One thing I have learned—and I’m not alone this summer—is that I was foolish to have done so. Today, people in the West tend to believe the ills of the age are racism, colonialism, and militarism. The world’s only Jewish country has done less harm than most countries on earth, and more good—and yet when people went looking for a country that would symbolize the sins of our new post-colonial, post-militaristic, post-ethnic dream-world, the country they chose was this one.

    When the people responsible for explaining the world to the world, journalists, cover the Jews’ war as more worthy of attention than any other, when they portray the Jews of Israel as the party obviously in the wrong, when they omit all possible justifications for the Jews’ actions and obscure the true face of their enemies, what they are saying to their readers—whether they intend to or not—is that Jews are the worst people on earth. The Jews are a symbol of the evils that civilized people are taught from an early age to abhor. International press coverage has become a morality play starring a familiar villain.

    Some readers might remember that Britain participated in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the fallout from which has now killed more than three times the number of people ever killed in the Israel-Arab conflict; yet in Britain, protesters furiously condemn Jewish militarism. White people in London and Paris whose parents not long ago had themselves been fanned by dark people in the sitting rooms of Rangoon or Algiers condemn Jewish “colonialism.” Americans who live in places called “Manhattan” or “Seattle” condemn Jews for displacing the native people of Palestine. Russian reporters condemn Israel’s brutal military tactics. Belgian reporters condemn Israel’s treatment of Africans. When Israel opened a transportation service for Palestinian workers in the occupied West Bank a few years ago, American news consumers could read about Israel “segregating buses.” And there are a lot of people in Europe, and not just in Germany, who enjoy hearing the Jews accused of genocide.

    You don’t need to be a history professor, or a psychiatrist, to understand what’s going on. Having rehabilitated themselves against considerable odds in a minute corner of the earth, the descendants of powerless people who were pushed out of Europe and the Islamic Middle East have become what their grandparents were—the pool into which the world spits. The Jews of Israel are the screen onto which it has become socially acceptable to project the things you hate about yourself and your own country. The tool through which this psychological projection is executed is the international press.
    Right now, there is a brutal civil war going on in Sudan. Over 10,000 people have died just in the last few months, with well over 4 million displaced. Nobody cares, but here, we're 35 pages in already and there have been massive kill the Jews demonstrations in almost every major Western city and on university campuses. The frequency of anti-Semitic attacks are up all around the world and mainstream Western media outlets accepted Hamas claims uncritically, further inflaming anti-Israel and anti-Jewish sentiments.

    Obviously, if Israel just let Hamas kill, rape, and torture over a thousand of its civilians without responding, there would be no problem. Except that, the pro-Palestinian solidarity marches seemed to have started before Israel even took the fight to Gaza, for some reason. I guess they were celebrations.

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Has any other group of Jews had as much trouble being accepted in the country as the last batch of Ethiopians?
    The Falash Mura aren't Jews. The Israeli government is just accommodating some of them because of their great desire to be Israeli, and because some actual Ethiopian Jews support this. Although, other Ethiopian Jews oppose it. There is suspicion that some of them might only want to come to Israel for the financial benefits. The same suspicion is directed at people from former Soviet countries who claim without proof that they are Jewish or have Jewish ancestry. I have all the proof necessary, but they wouldn't allow me to stay long-term in the country without applying for dual citizenship. I had to prove that I had enough money in my account to support myself for at least 3 months, so the requirement was more stringent for me than it was for Ethiopian Jews, and I certainly didn't receive long-term financial benefits like they did.

    People project Western racial ideas onto Israeli society that are foreign to most Israelis. For example, some Orthodox or Ultra-Orthodox people wouldn't want their son or daughter to marry an Ethiopian Jew, but it's not because of race, it's because the traditional Judaism in Ethiopia is not Orthodox, so it's more like the reason they wouldn't want their child to marry an irreligious Jew. Also, most Jews consider Arabs to be our cousins. The general negativity some Jews feel towards Arabs is a product of Arab antisemitism, which is often violent.

    And it's not our imagination that most Arabs hate us:

    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; October 29, 2023 at 05:20 AM. Reason: Personal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #683
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    16,803

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Right now, there is a brutal civil war going on in Sudan. Over 10,000 people have died just in the last few months, with well over 4 million displaced. Nobody cares
    Word on this. Its impact is reverberating all across the sahel and into south Sudan. More over there is some talk the House of Saud is pushing Egypt to get involved. Its OT but if any one does want to notice wat's happening in Sudan this a good site:

    https://sudanwarmonitor.com/
    Last edited by conon394; October 28, 2023 at 03:55 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #684
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    15,969
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Mandatory conversions, fights to prove that you and/or your ancestors were of a certain religion... it seems that we are once again talking about the expulsion of the Jews from Spain. But no, its Israel in the year of our lord 2023.

  5. #685
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    2,198

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    You continue to ignore the proven existence of discrimination against Ethiopian Jews (Arabs and Africans in general) in Israeli society.
    Yeah, it must be the worst thing to be an African Jew in Israel.
    Meanwhile in some "other" country in the neighborhood:



    IIRC a black slave costs about $500.
    Now, back to the horrific life of blacks in Israel.

  6. #686

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Mandatory conversions, fights to prove that you and/or your ancestors were of a certain religion...
    Nothing is mandatory. No one is forced to apply for Israeli citizenship. Everyone who applies for Israeli citizenship under the law of return is simply required to prove that they legally qualify, regardless of their ethnicity.

    Ironically, Spain in 2023 requires Jews to prove Sephardic ancestry in order to be granted Spanish citizenship, but has evidently been rejecting Mexicans and Mexican-Americans with Jewish ancestry, among others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #687
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,063

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    I still haven't seen an answer to my observations.
    1) Did or didn't Israel and Palestine agreed years ago that the fortified Israely settlements known as kibuch (if i am wtiting their name corectly) that were established INSIDE Palestine teritory would withdrwan ?
    2) Is it true that the previus agreement stoped when that crazy Trump encouraged Israel to take his signatures back and start new colonisations?
    3) Is it true that the the Israeli fanatics assasinated their most decorative general that became their President because he wanted tio end the war?
    4) Is it true that we still do not know who poisoned Jaser Arafat THAT also wanted peace at last?
    I wrote it before and i write it again. Fanatism is created by fanatism. Thousands of Jews in Greece saved by Christians like the example of Archbishop Damaskinos and Archbishop of Zakynthos.
    https://youtu.be/aXPJNDVfBgU?si=IdMZmhW2-mg2x5c1
    Watch after 11:42 Isreal people must think twice their actions to avoid being the new menace of humanity after the German Nazis. They own that to their selvs and to those that risked their loves to save them.
    @sumskilz
    I believe there is a stone with all europeans cities that Jewish communities desimated. Can you find a picture of it for me. There is a reason why I ask for it.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  8. #688
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    13,095

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Siblesz View Post


    (...) And until the ignoble and unhappy regime
    That hold our brothers in Angola
    In Mozambique
    South Africa
    Sub-human bondage
    Have been toppled
    Utterly destroyed
    Well, everywhere is war (...)

    Rep +
    In fact, in 1975 an agreement providing for accession of Angola to Independence was signed between our government and the three movements of Independence.One of them was the UPA/FLNA , which committed even more horrific massacres than HAMAS, which I call the Palestinian UPA.And, I have to say, UPA was backed/financed by the USA.
    Edit: we mustn't forget that Hamas is not just an armed organization: it is a movement born out of actions in support of the population, with an armed wing and a political wing, and with a presence in the society. If elections were held in the West Bank today, Hamas would win.

    ----
    The Guardian describes in an article titled "Israel’s siege throws life in Gaza back decades" the devastation that Gaza has been subjected to until two or three days ago and warns that "some viewers may find the photographs in this article distressing."
    Israel's siege throws life in Gaza back decades

    What does the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations say?

    He flatly denies the existence of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza and declares that reports stating otherwise are as if they were written by the Islamic Jihad.
    I presume he is referring to reports from UNRWA, the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees. 57 UN staff members have already died in Israeli bombings in the occupied territory.

    The Israeli ambassador to Portugal tweeted yesterday insulting Guterres: "The Secretary-General of @UN@antonioguterres has proven that this organization has lost its credibility by betraying the free world."
    He then posted another fiercely attacking the Portuguese government: "I regret, but when you vote like Iran, Syria, Russia, and North Korea and not like the US, the UK, Japan, and Germany, something is wrong with your position."

    What is wrong is Ambassador Dor Shapira lying when he says that Germany and Japan voted against the motion that was approved by a huge majority. In Europe, Austria, the Czech Republic, Croatia, and Hungary voted against. Japan and Germany abstained.

    Israel has the highest number of condemnations by the Human Rights Council. Even before Guterres was elected Secretary-General of the United Nations, Obama gave him advice: do not mess with Israel. A few days later, the Obama administration almost caused chaos at the UN by abstaining in a resolution condemning Israel for "flagrant violation of international law" in the "occupied territories." If it were today, the US would have voted against.

    Guterres did not betray his conscience. Neither now, by recalling that Palestinians have been living under suffocating occupation for many decades, nor when years ago he used Holocaust Remembrance Day to acknowledge the Jewish origin of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, earning him criticism from the Arab world.

    Nor when, as the Prime Minister of Portugal, he visited the Portuguese Synagogue in Amsterdam; nor when his government recalled in Parliament the 500th anniversary of the expulsion of the Jews and investigated suspicions that Portugal had imported Nazi gold.

    As President of the Socialist International, Guterres led an organization that included Shimon Peres' party and Fatah, even proposing that the region could take a step towards integration, following the model of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.His position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has not changed. He has always advocated the two-state solution.
    More recently, in 2020, he was honored by the World Jewish Congress as "a true friend of the State of Israel" and received the Theodor Herzl Award "for his efforts to end anti-Israel prejudice since taking office as Secretary-General of the United Nations nearly four years ago."

    SG Guterres recebe Prémio Theodor Herzl

    Before spouting nonsense without thinking, the two Israeli ambassadors (Gilad Erdan at the UN and Dor Shapira in Lisbon) should have remembered that none of the other 192 member states of the United Nations endorsed Gilad Erdan's reading when he called for Guterres' resignation.
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 28, 2023 at 12:33 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  9. #689
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Has the ground operation in Gaza officially started? I see Israeli troops are operating in Northern Gaza. Just wondering if this is the actual start or another raid into the territory.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  10. #690

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Has the ground operation in Gaza officially started? I see Israeli troops are operating in Northern Gaza. Just wondering if this is the actual start or another raid into the territory.
    It’s about 10:00 PM here right now. Merkava IVs, engineers in Puma APCs, and armored bulldozers entered northern Gaza last night, and as far as I can tell they’ve been there all day clearing paths, at least north of Beit Hanoun and along the beach, but maybe more than that. No new IDF casualties have been reported.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #691
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    15,969
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    Yeah, it must be the worst thing to be an African Jew in Israel.
    Meanwhile in some "other" country in the neighborhood:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    IIRC a black slave costs about $500.
    Now, back to the horrific life of blacks in Israel.
    You don't even remember how much your "black slave" cost you? what the hell dude, show some respect at least for your money.


    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Nothing is mandatory. No one is forced to apply for Israeli citizenship. Everyone who applies for Israeli citizenship under the law of return is simply required to prove that they legally qualify, regardless of their ethnicity.
    Many ethiopians are asked to perform a conversion ceremony to Judaism to prove that they are not "fakes".

    Ironically, Spain in 2023 requires Jews to prove Sephardic ancestry in order to be granted Spanish citizenship, but has evidently been rejecting Mexicans and Mexican-Americans with Jewish ancestry, among others.
    I admit that I read that article quite quickly, but I have not seen a single word that refers to discrimination against mexicans compared to other groups/nationalities. If you wanted to prove that Spain is a racist country, that was not a good argument (if you want, I can give you many valid arguments). If you wanted to point out that Spain is a quite ridiculous country, a bureaucratic disaster, you are completely right. And I don't know why you are talking about Spain (before you also wanted to talk to me about Korea?).

    Info for you, really interested in spain, and for the other guy who constantly quotes what I said about racism in Spain. From dislike (if anything) to total hate: Jews > Argentinians > white Americans > Portuguese > Americans with indigenous features > chinese population > Peruvians >black americans > Pakistanis > sub-Saharans > Moroccans . Approximately. You are welcome. And in the north we despise the Andalusians (try saying that it is because of their Semitic background : ) )

    ----------------------------

    meanwhile, total darkness in gaza. neither press nor internet nor anything. Total freedom for the Israeli army. "No new IDF casualties have been reported". And gazaties casualties? Are they considered casualties?
    Last edited by mishkin; October 28, 2023 at 02:14 PM.

  12. #692

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    I admit that I read that article quite quickly, but I have not seen a single word that refers to discrimination against mexicans compared to other groups/nationalities. If you wanted to prove that Spain is a racist country, that was not a good argument (if you want, I can give you many valid arguments).
    My point was only that Spain likewise asks for proof of ancestry for that path to citizenship, which is perfectly reasonable as far as I'm concerned. Some Sephardi Jews suspect Spain is mostly interested in new immigrants with capital rather than setting right any sort of historical wrong, but I don’t know if that’s true, and I don’t care. Spain can make its own immigration rules however it wants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  13. #693
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    15,969
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    My god, we finally agree on something. Spain is interested in wealthy Arabs and Russians and doesn't give a ### about their religion.

  14. #694
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    2,198

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    You don't even remember how much your "black slave" cost you? what the hell dude, show some respect at least for your money.
    1) Should those Ethiopian Jews stay in Palestine and keep occupying and stealing the land from the Palestinians,

    2) or should those blacks go back to Africa where they are from?
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; October 29, 2023 at 05:22 AM. Reason: Personal.

  15. #695
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    12,647

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    How did this discussion even start lol. What have Ethiopian Jews got to do with the price of tea in China?

    Meanwhile in the real world, the offensive has started. One BBC journalist reckons that rather than the anticipated full-scale all guns blazing invasion, the strategy might actually be to clear Gaza City block by block in a slow and methodical way. That's interesting - it may have the advantage of not providing a 'Look guys we're invading!!!! (Attack now, Hezbollah and Assad!)' moment. It also might be a more effective strategy than shock and awe, as it may lead to less IDF casualties from carelessness. It would however be a cautious and slow strategy which would lead to more uncertainty for Palestinians and more space for international pressure against Israel to mount. What do you guys think, will there be an all-out invasion or just a continuation of the present incremental strat?
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  16. #696
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    16,803

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Rep +
    In fact, in 1975 an agreement providing for accession of Angola to Independence was signed between our government and the three movements of Independence.One of them was the UPA/FLNA , which committed even more horrific massacres than HAMAS, which I call the Palestinian UPA.And, I have to say, UPA was backed/financed by the USA.
    Edit: we mustn't forget that Hamas is not just an armed organization: it is a movement born out of actions in support of the population, with an armed wing and a political wing, and with a presence in the society. If elections were held in the West Bank today, Hamas would win.

    ----
    The Guardian describes in an article titled "Israel’s siege throws life in Gaza back decades" the devastation that Gaza has been subjected to until two or three days ago and warns that "some viewers may find the photographs in this article distressing."
    Israel's siege throws life in Gaza back decades

    What does the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations say?

    He flatly denies the existence of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza and declares that reports stating otherwise are as if they were written by the Islamic Jihad.
    I presume he is referring to reports from UNRWA, the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees. 57 UN staff members have already died in Israeli bombings in the occupied territory.

    The Israeli ambassador to Portugal tweeted yesterday insulting Guterres: "The Secretary-General of @UN@antonioguterres has proven that this organization has lost its credibility by betraying the free world."
    He then posted another fiercely attacking the Portuguese government: "I regret, but when you vote like Iran, Syria, Russia, and North Korea and not like the US, the UK, Japan, and Germany, something is wrong with your position."

    What is wrong is Ambassador Dor Shapira lying when he says that Germany and Japan voted against the motion that was approved by a huge majority. In Europe, Austria, the Czech Republic, Croatia, and Hungary voted against. Japan and Germany abstained.

    Israel has the highest number of condemnations by the Human Rights Council. Even before Guterres was elected Secretary-General of the United Nations, Obama gave him advice: do not mess with Israel. A few days later, the Obama administration almost caused chaos at the UN by abstaining in a resolution condemning Israel for "flagrant violation of international law" in the "occupied territories." If it were today, the US would have voted against.

    Guterres did not betray his conscience. Neither now, by recalling that Palestinians have been living under suffocating occupation for many decades, nor when years ago he used Holocaust Remembrance Day to acknowledge the Jewish origin of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, earning him criticism from the Arab world.

    Nor when, as the Prime Minister of Portugal, he visited the Portuguese Synagogue in Amsterdam; nor when his government recalled in Parliament the 500th anniversary of the expulsion of the Jews and investigated suspicions that Portugal had imported Nazi gold.

    As President of the Socialist International, Guterres led an organization that included Shimon Peres' party and Fatah, even proposing that the region could take a step towards integration, following the model of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.His position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has not changed. He has always advocated the two-state solution.
    More recently, in 2020, he was honored by the World Jewish Congress as "a true friend of the State of Israel" and received the Theodor Herzl Award "for his efforts to end anti-Israel prejudice since taking office as Secretary-General of the United Nations nearly four years ago."

    SG Guterres recebe Prémio Theodor Herzl

    Before spouting nonsense without thinking, the two Israeli ambassadors (Gilad Erdan at the UN and Dor Shapira in Lisbon) should have remembered that none of the other 192 member states of the United Nations endorsed Gilad Erdan's reading when he called for Guterres' resignation.
    Just curious Ludicus has Guterres been bravely defying China well on it repression of Tibet, Hong Kong, the Uyghurs, the Falun Gong?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  17. #697
    Hobbes's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Hobs Crk
    Posts
    10,732

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10...els_collective

    Based Butler doing her thing.

    Well, it seems to me that one can be opposed, and should be opposed, to the killing of civilians. And that’s a basic ethical precept of war. And so it’s only logical to say that one objects to the killing of civilians on both sides. I think that what is problematic is how often many people who understand themselves as Zionists have said that the Hamas attacks justify the present response on the part of the Israeli military. But as we see, the military powers are radically asymmetrical. And this is not a conflict where, oh, both sides are at fault in some equal way. We have to understand the history of the violence that has been inflicted against Palestine, including Gaza, and I would include as part of that violence the deprivation of the people of drinking water, of healthcare, of basic foods and electricity, that, in other words, the very conditions of life itself have been attacked systematically. So, I think that I can’t speak for all of the people who signed that letter. But as Jews, we do say, “Not in our name.” This is the — what the Israeli state is doing, what the Israeli military forces are doing does not represent us. It doesn’t represent our values. And because, as I’ve said, I think what we’re seeing is the implementation of a genocidal plan, according to international legal definitions of genocide, as Jews, it is imperative, ethically, politically, to speak out against genocide, just as it is to speak out against the production of a new class of refugees or the intensification of refugee status for so many Palestinians, who have, in some cases, been refugees since 1948. Their families have. So, that’s, I think, the basic thinking behind that petition.
    NERMEEN SHAIKH: Professor Butler, I’d like to ask about your own work. You’ve written extensively on the question of why certain lives are valued more than others. If you could speak specifically about how this is reflected not only in the comments we just heard from John Kirby, but also in media coverage, mainstream media coverage, of the war here in the U.S. I’ll just quote from your 2009 work, Frames of War: When Is Life Grievable? In the book, you write, quote, “When we take our moral horror to be a sign of our humanity, we fail to note that the humanity in question is, in fact, implicitly divided between those for whom we feel urgent and unreasoned concern and those whose lives and deaths simply do not touch us, or do not appear as lives at all.” So, if you could, Professor Butler, speak about this and how it’s manifest, in particular, as you were talking about earlier in The New York Times, in the U.S. media? And you’re in Paris at the moment, so you could perhaps also address this as it’s reflected in the European media.
    JUDITH BUTLER: Well, first of all, let’s just state what I take to be obvious and true, which is that the settler colonial framework of Israel’s occupation of Palestine is a racist one, and Palestinians are figured as less than human. They’re among the non-Europeans. There are obviously Jewish non-Europeans, as well. But they are racialized, and they are treated as less than human. So the loss of those lives is not marked and acknowledged as a loss. Of course, it is within Palestine. I mean, there are always ways of gathering and mourning and carrying the dead and honoring the dead. So, we’re talking only from the point of view of those who believe that the elimination of Palestinian lives or the constant damaging of Palestinian lives is somehow justified. They’re not seeing those lives as human lives, according to the idea of the human they have.
    It’s not antisemitic to criticize the state of Israel if the state of Israel is a settler colonial state that’s doing violence of an extraordinary kind. One objects to violence. One objects to settler colonial arrangements. One objects to injustice. Indeed, as a Jew, you’re obligated to object to injustice. You would not be a good Jew if you were not objecting to injustice. So, to be called antisemitic — and I have been called that for years by those who oppose me — because I stand for values that are also Jewish values, shared values, but Jewish values, too, is simply appalling.

    BLM - ANTIFA - A.C.A.B. - ANARCHY - ANTI-NATIONALISM

  18. #698
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    12,647

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    On a similar note, here's Ezra Yachin, the oldest reservist in the Israeli armed forces who's still going strong. On one hand he's obviously a legend of the Israeli army and nation - though born in Jerusalem he's old enough to have fought for Israel's independence alongside the Holocaust survivors of Eastern Europe, and he's been fighting for Israel's place in the Middle East ever since.



    Yeah... when the British and Americans and others say that 'Israel has the right to defend themselves' I'm not sure that's exactly what they mean. He doesn't mention the word 'Hamas' once - for him, the enemy are 'Arab beasts' who should not be in the 'Holy Land', by which I suspect he means the entire joint territory of Israel-Palestine. He is rumoured to have participated in the Deir Yassin Massacre and it seems he's still fighting the same war 75 years on, and encouraging other IDF soldiers to do the same.

    That, to me, is yet another item to add to the list of reasons for a ceasefire, until Israel can give a clear answer to what exactly its plan is to exact justice for the Hamas attacks in a way that will actually contribute to deescalating conflict, rather than playing into Hamas' gameplan aimed at massively provoking it.
    Last edited by Copperknickers II; October 28, 2023 at 07:06 PM.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  19. #699

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    What do you guys think, will there be an all-out invasion or just a continuation of the present incremental strat?
    It’s now clear that the IDF has entered the northern end of Gaza and in the center of the region east of Bureij, close to where the Wadi Gaza enters the Palestinian territory on its way to the sea. Civilians have been repeatedly warned to move south of the Wadi Gaza. Yesterday, flyers were again dropped with the same warning. Most of Hamas’s military assets are said to be north of the Wadi Gaza. IDF engineers are building a road from the north that moves south along the beach.

    The most logical conclusion (based on the current evidence) is that Israel intends to siege the entirety of Gaza north of the Wadi Gaza. As long as they continue to allow civilians to escape to the south and let some aid cross into the south, this plan will likely be acceptable to the US and thus reduce the time pressure. Although, Israel’s economic activity is greatly reduced with over 300,000 reservists called up and most non-essential businesses closed and others operating at very reduced hours, which creates another time constraint. That said, the Israeli population seems willing to suffer the economic consequences due to what happened on October 7th.

    EDIT: As the rocket threat subsides, economic activity in the center of the country will gradually resume, but this depends on how likely an escalation of the fighting with Hezbollah is deemed to be. Current home front directives suggest that it is still considered reasonably possible.

    EDIT2: A map of the situation:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by sumskilz; October 29, 2023 at 01:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  20. #700
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    15,969
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    1) Should those Ethiopian Jews stay in Palestine and keep occupying and stealing the land from the Palestinians,

    2) or should those blacks go back to Africa where they are from?
    1- I will pray a lot so that all the conflicts in the world are resolved: Ethiopia, Sudan, Palestine, Syria...

    2- I believe that there is plenty of room in Israel to accommodate its entire population, I do not believe, like you apparently, that more expansion is necessary to accommodate the Jewish Ethiopians.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; October 29, 2023 at 05:22 AM. Reason: Continuity.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •