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Thread: Hamas attacks southern Israel

  1. #561
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    First deliveries

    Over 44,000 bottles of drinking water supplied by UNICEF – just enough for 22,000 people for 1 daywere driven through the Rafah Crossing today as part of a 20-truck convoy with the Egyptian Red Crescent, the World Health Organization and the World Food Programme.

    “With one million children in Gaza now facing a critical protection and humanitarian crisis, the delivery of water is a matter of life or death. Every minute counts,” said UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell. “This first, limited water will save lives, but the needs are immediate and immense – not just for water, but for food, fuel, medicine, and essential goods and services.
    According to the head of the U.N.’s World Food Program,
    The situation is catastrophic in Gaza… We need many, many, many more trucks and a continual flow of aid,” she said, adding that some 400 trucks were entering Gaza daily before the war.
    Guterres said on Wednesday that attacks by militant group Hamas on Israel did not justify the "collective punishment" of Palestinians and called for an immediate ceasefire.

    And now,UN chief urges ceasefire to end Gaza's 'godawful nightmare'
    Addressing a Cairo summit as the conflict raged into its third week, Guterres said the Palestinian enclave of 2.4 million people was living through "a humanitarian catastrophe" with thousands dead and more than a million displaced. "We meet in the heart of a region that is reeling in pain and one step from the precipice," he told the meeting that included the leaders of Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates as well as of Italy and Spain and Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas.
    Meanwhile, go figure, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, an Israeli military spokesman, said “the humanitarian situation in Gaza is under control". Military Says Israel Plans to Increase Strikes on Gaza

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  2. #562
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    I'm reading reports on the Hamas rocket failures after launch in the Gaza strip. It seems as many as 1 in 5 (20%) fail to clear the enclave and land back in the heavy populated civilian areas of Gaza. As many as 1/3rd of the civilian casualties in Gaza are a result of these failures. That would make over 1000 deaths now as a result of these failures in the current conflict.

    Not much reporting on this but it has to be a war crime.

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  3. #563
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    Not much reporting on this but it has to be a war crime.
    Firing those rockets in the first place is already a warcrime, even if they didn't fall inside gaza as often as they do.

  4. #564

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    I'm reading reports on the Hamas rocket failures after launch in the Gaza strip. It seems as many as 1 in 5 (20%) fail to clear the enclave and land back in the heavy populated civilian areas of Gaza. As many as 1/3rd of the civilian casualties in Gaza are a result of these failures. That would make over 1000 deaths now as a result of these failures in the current conflict.

    Not much reporting on this but it has to be a war crime.
    Sounds more like Israel's efforts to push blame away from its own bombing. The claim is so major that it would easily be noticeable. We hardly see anywhere near the claimed frequency in the many footages available to everyone.
    The Armenian Issue

  5. #565
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    The emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy," IDF official Daniel Hagari said, according to according to Haaretz, admitting what was already plainly obvious.

    State Dept. Official Josh Paul Resigns Over Arms to Israel-N.Y.Times

    Josh Paul spent more than 11 years as the director of congressional and public affairs at the bureau that oversees arms transfers to foreign nations.

    A State Department official in the bureau that oversees arms transfers resigned this week in protest of the Biden administration’s decision to continue sending weapons and ammunition to Israel as it lays siege to Gaza in its war with Hamas.
    In his resignation letter, Josh Paul, who has been the director of congressional and public affairs for the State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs for over 11 years, said the Biden administration’s “blind support for one side” was leading to policy decisions that were “shortsighted, destructive, unjust and contradictory to the very values we publicly espouse.”

    “The response Israel is taking, and with it the American support both for that response and for the status quo of the occupation, will only lead to more and deeper suffering for both the Israeli and the Palestinian people,” he wrote, adding, “I fear we are repeating the same mistakes we have made these past decades, and I decline to be a part of it for longer.”

    In an interview, Mr. Paul said that Israel’s cutting off of water, food, medical care and electricity to the Gaza Strip, a region of two million people, should prompt protections in a number of longstanding federal laws intended to keep American weapons out of the hands of human rights violators. But those legal guardrails are failing, he said.

    “The problem with all of those provisions is that it rests on the executive branch making a determination that human rights violations have occurred,” Mr. Paul said. “The decision to make a determination doesn’t rest with some nonpartisan academic entity, and there’s no incentive for the president to actually determine anything.”

    Mr. Paul said that he had seen the U.S. government approve numerous sales or shipments of matériel to other Middle Eastern countries, even when he believed federal law should have prevented them from going forward.

    “On all of them there’s a moment where you can say, OK, well, you know, it’s out of my hands, but I know Congress is going to push back,” he said, by issuing a hold on the transfer or grilling officials in hearings at the Capitol. “But in this instance, there isn’t any significant pushback likely from Congress, there isn’t any other oversight mechanism, there isn’t any other forum for debate, and that’s part of what got into my decision making.”
    Continuing to give Israel what he described as carte blanche to kill a generation of enemies, only to create a new one, does not ultimately serve the United States’ interests, Mr. Paul said.
    “What it leads to is this desire to sort of impose security at any cost, including in cost to the Palestinian civilian population,” he said. “And that doesn’t ultimately lead to security.”

    Since posting his resignation letter online Wednesday, Mr. Paul said he had received an outpouring of support from State Department colleagues and congressional staff members.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  6. #566

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by StarDreamer View Post
    Didn't know he was one. Thank you for the information.
    Isn't living in Germany anymore. Now Panama is his new Home:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    ----

    Israeli tank hit an Egyptian police station. Israel apologized and said it had launched an investigation
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  7. #567
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    The story of Ofer Calderon and her two young children, Sahar, 16, and Erez: 12 Taken captive: Three members of the Calderon family- The Times of Israel.

    Israelita refém do Hamas pede extrema
    na concessão de nacionalidade portuguesa


    For an exceptional case, exceptional measures. Naturalization is a process that usually takes more than three months. Whether or not it can save the lives of these three citizens, we'll see. The central registry office will certainly deal with the case as a matter of extreme urgency.
    ---
    Since 1974, all governments of Portugal, whether right-wing or left-wing, have consistently voted in favor of the condemnation of Israel in United Nations resolutions, in support of the Palestinian people. In 2011, a Portuguese minister from a right-wing government (Paulo Portas) stated, "Everything for Palestine, nothing against Israel." It's a beautiful sentiment, one can understand the conciliatory intention. Currently, neither he nor the Portuguese government expresses this sentiment anymore.
    Portugal's Costa urges Israel to respect Gaza civilians

    The double standard with Israel and Palestine leaves us in moral darkness -The Guardian.

    I always dread watching US news coverage of wars, and now is no exception. After Hamas’s deadly attacks in Israel and Israel’s hellish bombardment of Gaza, I checked in on MSNBC. Before long, I heard one of their reporters talk about “the violent history between these two nations” – as if Palestine were a country – and had to turn off the TV to get a break.
    Palestine is not a country. That’s the whole point.
    The reflexive identification with Israel, by both US media professionals and politicians, always obscures the fuller picture of what’s happening between Israel and the Palestinians.
    On 7 October, the national security council spokesperson Adrienne Watson stated that the US “unequivocally condemns the unprovoked attacks by Hamas terrorists against Israeli civilians”.
    Every one of us must stand up and denounce the killing of every civilian, Israeli or Palestinian or otherwise. But Watson’s use of the word “unprovoked” is doing a lot of work here.

    What exactly counts as a provocation?

    Not, apparently, the large number of settlers, more than 800 by one media account, who stormed the al-Aqsa mosque compound on 5 October. Not the 248 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces or settlers between 1 January and 4 October of this year. Not the denial of Palestinian human rights and national aspirations for decades.

    One can, in fact must, see such actions as provocations without endorsing further murderous violence against civilians. But if you watched only US news, you would be likely to presume that Palestinians always act while Israel only reacts.
    You might even think that Palestinians are the ones colonizing the land of Israel, no less. And you probably believe that Israel, which holds ultimate control over the lives of 5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and yet denies them the right to vote in Israeli elections, is a democracy.

    They’re not equal. One dominates while the other is dominated. One colonizes. The other is colonized.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  8. #568

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    I was surprised to learn recently how little Jewish presence left in Greece. Thessaloniki, especially, was basically Jewish under the Ottoman Empire. What makes it a beautiful town even today is owed largely to its Jewish heritage. It's a shame it could not regain its heritage after WWII. Interestingly, Central Macedonia province that Thessaloniki is situated in is roughly the same size of Israel.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; October 22, 2023 at 02:52 PM.
    The Armenian Issue

  9. #569

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Define "Always" please, because the relocation of the Armenians in ww1 had some ... issues at the state level, from the highest level to the lowest level. Same with the forceful expulsion of Greeks 1922-1923 before (and during) the population exchange.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Didn't even we got some Topics especially for you or from you in that case?



    Why not continue over there?

  10. #570
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I was surprised to learn recently how little Jewish presence left in Greece. Thessaloniki, especially, was basically Jewish under the Ottoman Empire. What makes it a beautiful town even today is owed largely to its Jewish heritage. It's a shame it could not regain its heritage after WWII. Interestingly, Central Macedonia province that Thessaloniki is situated in is roughly the same size of Israel.
    Jews if Greece fought against AXIS (something Turkey never did ) and gave their lives and honored the uniform of the Greek officer like Colonel Mardochaios Frizis that died on his horseback giving courage to his soldiers in an earial attack.
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  11. #571

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Jews if Greece fought against AXIS (something Turkey never did ) and gave their lives and honored the uniform of the Greek officer like Colonel Mardochaios Frizis that died on his horseback giving courage to his soldiers in an earial attack.
    Which would make their return to Thessaloniki even more deserving.
    The Armenian Issue

  12. #572
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Firing those rockets in the first place is already a warcrime, even if they didn't fall inside gaza as often as they do.
    I would agree with that. Hamas is not shooting those rockets to target military. They are targeting civilians in the first place. That some rockets land on their own civilians instead of Israeli civilians doesn't make it any more or any less of a warcrime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Why not continue over there?
    Because in this thread, not those threads, you said this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Human life has always been taken into consideration at the state level, from the highest level to the lowest level.
    which is clearly false, farcically so. Turkey's consideration of human life at the state level has in the near past been worse than what Israel displays in this war.
    If Israel decides to permanently push the people of the Northern part of Gaza to the Southern part, then we will have ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from parts of Gaza (forced displacement of civilians is ethnic cleansing).

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Which would make their return to Thessaloniki even more deserving.
    How? 90% of them have been killed. From the ones alive, just a few hundred wanted to return. There are a couple thousand Jews in Thessaloniki nowdays, but they are mostly new arrivals, not relatives of the Jews that were there in WW2.

    After the civil war, we have identified 1800 homes that should be given back to Jews that survived the Holocaust. Well, in many cases the Jews didn't want to return. As I said, the modern Jews of Thessaloniki are new arrivals.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 22, 2023 at 04:07 PM.
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  13. #573
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar my horse for a unicode
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Courtesy reminder to keep on topic, constructive and pay mind to the rules of the mudpit.
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    Spoiler for wait what dragons?



  14. #574

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Because in this thread, not those threads, you said this:
    Which was in the first place not a reply towards you and which you taken out of context as usual

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    which is clearly false, farcically so. Turkey's consideration of human life at the state level has in the near past been worse than what Israel displays in this war.
    We can easily track the last decade how Turkish Warfare looks like against and how worse it was - a simple example of it:



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    More Questionable is why Israel cannot provide such footages while having access to that certain Technology.

  15. #575

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    How? 90% of them have been killed. From the ones alive, just a few hundred wanted to return. There are a couple thousand Jews in Thessaloniki nowdays, but they are mostly new arrivals, not relatives of the Jews that were there in WW2.
    After the civil war, we have identified 1800 homes that should be given back to Jews that survived the Holocaust. Well, in many cases the Jews didn't want to return. As I said, the modern Jews of Thessaloniki are new arrivals.
    We're not talking about local Jews returning to Thessaloniki just like we're not talking about local Jews returning for Israel. You could start with giving Jewish homes that were taken over by Greek Nazi collaborators back to the Jewish communities in need of a home.
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #576

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    A massacre that spread to 500 Palestinian villages and caused more than 700,000 Palestinians to flee their land. Many of their descendants die today under Israeli bombs in Gaza and are threatened with further expulsion. Condemning the terrible and indiscriminate killing of civilians in the Hamas attack does not mean forgetting and erasing the systematic murder of Palestinians over the last 75 years.
    After the conversation I had with fkizz, about Portugal's citizenship law for the descendants of Sephardic Jews who were expelled from the country 500 years ago, I can't help but wonder: when will Israel be willing to enact a similar law for the Palestinians it expelled 75 years ago?
    To be fair, it took us 500 years.
    Is it fair to demand same result in just 75 years? We don't exactly have a good moral ground here.

    On the latest incident, imagine you are the leader of a nation. There is an enemy attack inside our borders that in 48 hours has killed portuguese civilians in the number of thousands. The number keeps growing up and may double or triple if very strong action isn't taken.
    What do you do?
    1) Do you allow even more portuguese civilians to be killed while contemplating history?
    2) Do you give order for a strong action to be taken against the hostile individuals who are out there killing civilians?
    Last edited by fkizz; October 22, 2023 at 07:00 PM.
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  17. #577
    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    To be fair, it took us 500 years.
    Is it fair to demand same result in just 75 years? We don't exactly have a good moral ground here.

    On the latest incident, imagine you are the leader of a nation. There is an enemy attack inside our borders that in 48 hours has killed portuguese civilians in the number of thousands. The number keeps growing up and may double or triple if very strong action isn't taken.
    What do you do?
    1) Do you allow even more Portuguese civilians to be killed while contemplating history?
    2) Do you give order for a strong action to be taken against the hostile individuals who are out there killing civilians?

    I cannot argue against the validity of such points.

    However, this is the 21st century.
    And Israel boasts being the only "modern" and "civilized" "democracy" in the Middle East.
    Is it unfair to expect them to discern between Hamas fanatics, dedicated to kill until themselves are killed (the stated goal of a fedayeen) and civilians?

    It seems to me that the problem with Israel is that secularism is little more than just facade.
    The actual premise of the state is that Jews are a holy people, their rights are holy rights and their state is a holy state on a holy land and the only good state in the world.

    Add to that several pinches of post modern identity politics:
    • Israel stands for Jews.
    • Jews have been the "victimhood Olympians" of human history (that is probably right).
    • Blaming Israel for anything is "blaming the victim".
    • The victim is generally sacrosanct.
    • When the victim is specifically Jewish blaming the victim is Nazism.
    • Nazis are the enemies of Jews and they are implacable.
    • There is no talking to Nazis.
    • Nazis have been the super villains of human history.
    • Anybody who pays any attention to what bona fide super villains have to say is the same as them.
    • There is no talking to Nazis.


    The word that comes to mind is "exculpation".
    Exculpation of chutzpah specifically.

  18. #578
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Which would make their return to Thessaloniki even more deserving.
    We get it, you don't think Jews should have a state and should perpetually be at the mercy of other people, just awaiting the next genocide.

    Turkey's Jewish population also decreased by over 80% compared to 1948. Perhaps a Jewish state should be established with its borders from Thesalloniki to Istanbul, with Istanbul as its capital? We can rename it to Jerusalem 2: Jews strike back. Make the Hagia Sophia into a synagogue.

  19. #579
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Now imagine that you are not a terrorist, but a fighter against the injustices of an overwhelming/invading state. the same thing that members of ETA, the IRA, or violent movements fighting against apartheid in South Africa have thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    We get it, you don't think Jews should have a state and should perpetually be at the mercy of other people, just awaiting the next genocide.

    Turkey's Jewish population also decreased by over 80% compared to 1948. Perhaps a Jewish state should be established with its borders from Thesalloniki to Istanbul, with Istanbul as its capital? We can rename it to Jerusalem 2: Jews strike back. Make the Hagia Sophia into a synagogue.
    I offer you Córdoba. (### Thesaloniki)
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    Last edited by mishkin; October 23, 2023 at 05:27 AM.

  20. #580
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Now imagine that you are not a terrorist, but a fighter against the injustices of an overwhelming/invading state. the same thing that members of ETA, the IRA, or violent movements fighting against apartheid in South Africa have thought.
    Did those go house to house, door to door, and slaughter every man, woman, and child they could find? Did they deliberately set babies on fire? Did they kidnap infants to trade them in for convicted murderers? Did they fire thousands upon thousands of rockets at civilian centres of population?
    Weak =/= righteous.

    I offer you Córdoba. (### Thesaloniki)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Yes, Jews have certainly never been mistreated in Spain, I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

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