If a person can be transgendered, shouldn't that mean people can also be "transracial" or "transage"?

[Muizer]

A better definition would reference the outwardly visible primary sex characteristics themselves. To say 'assigned at birth' leaves the option open that gender dysphoria could be the result of a clerical error or computer glitch.

[mishkin]

There have been errors and bad practices in the case of intersex people (a very small number of the population, I know). Better to talk about visible genitals after childbirth?

[NorthernXY]

Maybe you want to rephrase this sentence? You say that "you can't change your sex" (in your driver license)?

I'm sorry but I'm not going to watch a YouTube video, much less one from a group called RebelNews*. Do you have any link to a minimally credible medium that describes the ease with which you can exchange man/woman on your driver's license?

Rebel News (also known as The Rebel Media and The Rebel) is a Canadian far right[2] political and social commentary media website operated by Rebel News Network Ltd. It has been described as a "global platform" for the anti-Muslim ideology known as counter-jihad.[3][4] It was founded in February 2015 by former Sun News Network personalities Ezra Levant and Brian Lilley.

Rebel News broadcasts its content only on the internet and has been compared to Breitbart News of the US.[5][6][7][8] Rebel News has been described as being part of the alt-right movement.[9][10][11]

Former Sun News reporter Faith Goldy joined Rebel News after its launch,[12] but was fired for her coverage of the 2017 Charlottesville rally and for conducting an interview with The Daily Stormer.[13] A co-founder and two freelancers resigned in protest of the coverage.[14] Gavin McInnes, founder of the far-right neo-fascist[15][16][17] organization Proud Boys, was a contributor. McInnes departed in 2017, then temporarily rejoined the site for a period in 2019.[18][19] In the midst of the 2021 Canadian federal election, Justin Trudeau accused Rebel News of spreading misinformation, especially with regards to COVID-19 vaccines.[20][21][22] Rebel News has promoted climate change denial and oil sands extraction in Alberta.[23]


Do you have a definition of gender that is not very similar to this one?

- the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex (Merriam-Webster)

A driver's license list sex, M or F. Yet a person who changes genders can have their sex on their DL changed. You can't change your sex.

*Yisus. Pleased to meet you, NorthernXY:

Huh?

Everybody on the left thinks everything to the right of them is the "far-right" and "fascist", which still has a lower body count than the Left's communism. The video is a hidden camera of Lauren Southern going to a doctor, telling him, while wearing a baseball cap because that's what all guys do, that she identifies as a man for the last year. The doctor prints off a paper stating she is in fact a he. LS goes to the Canadian DMV and gets an ID card that designates her has a male. Out of curiosity, were you one of the many millions that believe the main stream news' wasn't lying when they reported some MAGA kids were scream racial epithets? Just because the news reports something you agree with doesn't make it true.

Is somebody here saying that a woman (sex), who recognizes herself as such, who does not behave and have the attitudes usually associated with women in today's Western society, is not a woman?

Straw man much?

For making any changes to your driver’s license, you’ll need the DMV basics: Social Security Card (more on that below) and proof of your identity using a current government issued photo ID...

According to the Sylvia Rivera Law Project, one of the most important things you might need to change your gender marker is a doctor’s letter affirming or attesting to your gender transition. This letter should have as clear and direct language as possible about what your gender marker should say. What’s more, once you acquire this letter, the law project recommends making physical copies: Some governmental agencies may take and keep your letter for their records.

https://lifehacker.com/how-to-change...nse-1850547620

Which is demonstrated exactly in the video you refuse to watch. Sounds like it'll just take a day or two.

[Cyclops]

Is it possible to become tran-stupid? I feel this debate sapping what little intelligence I have.

The politics around this issue defy belief. In my country some idiots are trying to import this, yeah, nah, please keep it in the US with the Second Amendment.

There's people who have beliefs and feeling about themselves, they have a high rate of suicide, its lower if they get help. We give them the help.

Its not perfect but I gotta say hysterical ranting about it doesn't help anyone. "All left wingers" no thanks, that's exactly as stupid as saying "all right wingers", and the whattaboutism leads to ethical paralysis and business as usual.

I support our ally the US to be itself, bless your cotton socks, but don't fall prey to stupid infighting. That just helps our enemies.

[mishkin]

Just because the news reports something you agree with doesn't make it true.

you have used a far-right news channel as a source. These are the people who inform you.

Straw man much?

A simple question to know your position regarding gender roles.
"Is somebody here saying that a woman (sex), who recognizes herself as such, who does not behave and have the attitudes usually associated with women in today's Western society, is not a woman?"
You may think it's a trap or you don't want to reveal what you really think about the roles that men and women can play, thats ok

A driver's license list sex, M or F. Yet a person who changes genders can have their sex on their DL changed. You can't change your sex.


https://lifehacker.com/how-to-change...nse-1850547620

Which is demonstrated exactly in the video you refuse to watch. Sounds like it'll just take a day or two.

You think "a doctor’s letter affirming or attesting to your gender transition" takes a day or two? Don't you think there is a prior process behind that letter? Can we agree that it is not something that can be done on a whim instantly? That no one can say "tomorrow I will put on my driver's license that I am a man, next week that I am a woman and in two weeks I will change it again"?

Is it possible to become tran-stupid? I feel this debate sapping what little intelligence I have.

The politics around this issue defy belief. In my country some idiots are trying to import this, yeah, nah, please keep it in the US with the Second Amendment.

There's people who have beliefs and feeling about themselves, they have a high rate of suicide, its lower if they get help. We give them the help.

Its not perfect but I gotta say hysterical ranting about it doesn't help anyone. "All left wingers" no thanks, that's exactly as stupid as saying "all right wingers", and the whattaboutism leads to ethical paralysis and business as usual.

I support our ally the US to be itself, bless your cotton socks, but don't fall prey to stupid infighting. That just helps our enemies.

Yes, this topic should be debated by informed people (I am minimally informed) within the framework of some honest discussion.

You talk about enemies. Yesterday I was searching and thinking about who is interested in brainless people like many of us spending time arguing about these things, misinforming and creating fear. I don't have any answers, I could only confirm my belief in the relationship between the extreme right and transphobia. And these mother###ers are targeting and killing people for being trans

[Muizer]

There have been errors and bad practices in the case of intersex people (a very small number of the population, I know). Better to talk about visible genitals after childbirth?

I think throughout the ages that has universally been the way people's sex has been recognized initially. It would then be reinforced with cultural mores throughout the rest of their lives.

If ever there was doubt about someone's sex they'd be asked to strip. That would be the ultimate arbitrator.

While scientifically we could argue that sex is an expression of our genes, culturally speaking the identification of sex has always started with outward appearance.

How could it be different. Genetics wasn't around until less than a century ago. It is therefore a logical fallacy to tie cultural norms to genetic make up.

Whether or not a society accepts that the genitals present at birth determine their sex, culturally, for the rest of their lives has absolutely nothing to do with science or biology. It is purely cultural: do we accept that the sex apparent at birth will define it for life. It's just that up until recently we didn't have to ask ourselves that question.

[mishkin]

nothing to object

If ever there was doubt about someone's sex they'd be asked to strip. That would be the ultimate arbitrator.

I am remembering now that since they discovered that a Pope was a woman, a genital examination prior to the appointment became mandatory. This could be a legend but it fits "my agenda" very well so...

Edit: Pope Joan (It is a legend, but an interesting story anyway).

[NorthernXY]

Is it possible to become tran-stupid? I feel this debate sapping what little intelligence I have.

The politics around this issue defy belief. In my country some idiots are trying to import this, yeah, nah, please keep it in the US with the Second Amendment.

There's people who have beliefs and feeling about themselves, they have a high rate of suicide, its lower if they get help. We give them the help.

Its not perfect but I gotta say hysterical ranting about it doesn't help anyone. "All left wingers" no thanks, that's exactly as stupid as saying "all right wingers", and the whattaboutism leads to ethical paralysis and business as usual.

I support our ally the US to be itself, bless your cotton socks, but don't fall prey to stupid infighting. That just helps our enemies.

I was trying to have an actual conversation, but things get political and nearly everybody has an opinion. I was stating that gender dysmorphia is true, so does age dysphoria and race dysmorphia exist as well.


A person from a country that lost a war to emus should remain quiet on the subject of guns.

[Muizer]

I was trying to have an actual conversation, but things get political and nearly everybody has an opinion. I was stating that gender dysmorphia is true, so does age dysphoria and race dysmorphia exist as well.

Why do you use the word "so"? Why does it seem a valid hypothesis to you that if one exists, so must the others? Why not assume that the question of the existence of all three can (and therefore should) be tested independently? That has to happen, with all answers affirmative, before you can test there is any dependency between them (which is what you are asking after).

[NorthernXY]

Why do you use the word "so"? Why does it seem a valid hypothesis to you that if one exists, so must the others? Why not assume that the question of the existence of all three can (and therefore should) be tested independently? That has to happen, with all answers affirmative, before you can test there is any dependency between them (which is what you are asking after).

I mistakenly didn't use a question mark. All three are a dysmorphias; the outer self not representing the inner self. Somatoparaphrenia (though I may be confusing it with a body dysmorphia disorder), where one rejects a limb to be theirs and will make up fantastical reasons as to why a limb is attached to them but not theirs is thought to be because of a lack of grey matter in that portion in the brain.

If the reason for gender dysmorphia is a brain functioning more closely to the opposite gender, then why can't a person whose brain matches that of a younger or older person be assigned that age?

[Cyclops]

I was trying to have an actual conversation, but things get political and nearly everybody has an opinion. I was stating that gender dysmorphia is true, so does age dysphoria and race dysmorphia exist as well.


A person from a country that lost a war to emus should remain quiet on the subject of guns.

Yep I feel even dumber now. Its just a feeling and my feelings are important.

Maybe you can understand all this better if you undergo multiple gender reassignment surgeries? Please report back your findings.

[Laser101]

While scientifically we could argue that sex is an expression of our genes, culturally speaking the identification of sex has always started with outward appearance.

How could it be different. Genetics wasn't around until less than a century ago. It is therefore a logical fallacy to tie cultural norms to genetic make up.

Whether or not a society accepts that the genitals present at birth determine their sex, culturally, for the rest of their lives has absolutely nothing to do with science or biology. It is purely cultural: do we accept that the sex apparent at birth will define it for life. It's just that up until recently we didn't have to ask ourselves that question.

Those things are connected, though. Absent some very unusual circumstances, a person's external sexual traits will match their genetics, because genetics are primarily responsible for determining how a person's body develops in the first place. Presumably, gender dysphoria occurs when the development of the brain doesn't match the development of the body.

[Muizer]

I mistakenly didn't use a question mark. All three are a dysmorphias; the outer self not representing the inner self. Somatoparaphrenia (though I may be confusing it with a body dysmorphia disorder), where one rejects a limb to be theirs and will make up fantastical reasons as to why a limb is attached to them but not theirs is thought to be because of a lack of grey matter in that portion in the brain.

But "the outer self not representing the inner self" is a descriptive definition, not a biological cause. "Dogs are not cats" and "1 + 1 = 2" can both be described as "true", but the statement "dogs are not cats so 1+1=2" is false.

If the reason for gender dysmorphia is a brain functioning more closely to the opposite gender, then why can't a person whose brain matches that of a younger or older person be assigned that age?

Yes that is another example of the dangers of conflating scientific fact with cultural/administrative norms/rules. administrative age is used as a proxy for many things: when you can fist buy alcohol, when you can first vote, when you can retire from work. It would be an administrative nightmare if that age were the biological age. Exactly for how long would your drivers' licence be valid if e.g. 10 years is measured in biological age? But none of that means biological age is not real.

Those things are connected, though. Absent some very unusual circumstances, a person's external sexual traits will match their genetics, because genetics are primarily responsible for determining how a person's body develops in the first place. Presumably, gender dysphoria occurs when the development of the brain doesn't match the development of the body.

Of course they are connected, but it can hardly be argued that homo sapiens has for 200k years or more used outward appearance as a proxy for genetics, when genetics was an entirely unknown concept. So there is no compelling argument to substitute genetics for outward appearance now. That would btw lead to bizarre situations like needing proof of having a Y chromosome to gain access to the men's room.

[Kyriakos]

I think I understand what you are saying but what about more or less masculine/feminine people? I would say it is a continuum with countless variations. million possibilities between the typical macho man and the typical princess.

Personally, I think that in a hundred years when they hear about genres they will freak out. "What the hell was that and what was it for?"

I don't know. Cronenberg's Spider isn't in the same genre as American Pie.

[mishkin]

I don't know. Cronenberg's Spider isn't in the same genre as American Pie.

People usually make these corrections via private message or reputation comment. This is how I have gotten all this bling.

Thank you, and, since you are here, any comments to make about the topic of the discussion? If a person can be transgender, does that mean we should also be able to be transatlantic? what do you think?

[alhoon]

Do you have a definition of gender that is not very similar to this one?

- the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex (Merriam-Webster)

I would go with 1 and 2. Not with 3.

[mishkin]

Do you want to open a grammar discussion about how in a sentence the gender of the subject should agree with the rest of the sentence?

[Laser101]

Do you want to open a grammar discussion about how in a sentence the gender of the subject should agree with the rest of the sentence?

I think it's reasonable to assume that gender in the linguistic context has a different meaning to what is being discussed here.

[mishkin]

Thanks

[alhoon]

Do you want to open a grammar discussion about how in a sentence the gender of the subject should agree with the rest of the sentence?

I said I do agree with 1, Mishkin. I said I don't agree with 2c.