David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles

[basics]

antaeus,

No, it is not identical to Biblical salvation at all. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came into this world to pay the price demanded for sin applicable only to those born again of the Spirit of God. He is the only Begotten Son of God because His birth was Supernatural, his life Supernatural and His death and resurrection Supernatural just as His coming to Judge the world will be Supernatural.

Mohammed however was just a man born naturally from a woman just as the rest of us were. He never saved any of his followers from their sin for all he offered them was of the basic of man's desires by which they all had to work for it in the hope that they have done enough to earn Allah's mercy and that after death.

So, Jesus's ministry was about love whereas Mohammed's is about butchery which is plain to see the world over.

[antaeus]

antaeus,

No, it is not identical to Biblical salvation at all. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came into this world to pay the price demanded for sin applicable only to those born again of the Spirit of God. He is the only Begotten Son of God because His birth was Supernatural, his life Supernatural and His death and resurrection Supernatural just as His coming to Judge the world will be Supernatural.

Mohammed however was just a man born naturally from a woman just as the rest of us were. He never saved any of his followers from their sin for all he offered them was of the basic of man's desires by which they all had to work for it in the hope that they have done enough to earn Allah's mercy and that after death.

So, Jesus's ministry was about love whereas Mohammed's is about butchery which is plain to see the world over.

You only know of Jesus' divinity, because of the words of very few, who were all part of the in-group. You trust their words, not Jesus'. Thus, the evidence you have, is the word of men. Who have earthly desires, vested interests, and all the jealousies and squabbles we all do - like you and I. No different to Mohammed and his followers.

[conon394]

antaeus,

No, it is not identical to Biblical salvation at all. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came into this world to pay the price demanded for sin applicable only to those born again of the Spirit of God. He is the only Begotten Son of God because His birth was Supernatural, his life Supernatural and His death and resurrection Supernatural just as His coming to Judge the world will be Supernatural.

Mohammed however was just a man born naturally from a woman just as the rest of us were. He never saved any of his followers from their sin for all he offered them was of the basic of man's desires by which they all had to work for it in the hope that they have done enough to earn Allah's mercy and that after death.

Again this only works because you choose to believe one unsubstantiated set of narratives - that about Jesus or course not written by him and disbelieve another the ones around Mohammad.

"His birth was Supernatural, his life Supernatural and His death and resurrection Supernatural "

Facts only attested to in the inconstant record that is the NT and lacking any real supporting evidence.

"came into this world to pay the price demanded for sin applicable only to those born again of the Spirit of God."

Ahh more of your Augustinian Manichaeism again.

So, Jesus's ministry was about love whereas Mohammed's is about butchery which is plain to see the world over.

That is a rather bigoted comment. If you want...

"Jesus's ministry was about love"

...You best start dropping the Bible you have for the Marcion of Sinope version since he was quite correct. If you want a Jesus with a ministry of love you really gotta ditch the OT, because OT god loves him some butchery

[basics]

You only know of Jesus' divinity, because of the words of very few, who were all part of the in-group. You trust their words, not Jesus'. Thus, the evidence you have, is the word of men. Who have earthly desires, vested interests, and all the jealousies and squabbles we all do - like you and I. No different to Mohammed and his followers.

antaeus,

No, I know of Jesus Christ because I was taken back in time to see Him utter His last words on the cross as He died. I was terrified and wakened up drenched in sweat not realising fully what I had been given to see so much so that when I went to the garage to get petrol the garage guy said I looked as though I had seen a ghost. That and more has remained with me for some forty years as a reminder to me of what Jesus Christ did for me on that cross. So, the evidence I have is experiential and fortified by the words of men. You see my Saviour lives unlike Mohammed.

[antaeus]

antaeus,

No, I know of Jesus Christ because I was taken back in time to see Him utter His last words on the cross as He died. I was terrified and wakened up drenched in sweat not realising fully what I had been given to see so much so that when I went to the garage to get petrol the garage guy said I looked as though I had seen a ghost. That and more has remained with me for some forty years as a reminder to me of what Jesus Christ did for me on that cross. So, the evidence I have is experiential and fortified by the words of men. You see my Saviour lives unlike Mohammed.

Ahhh... a dream. That explains it.

Your dream sounds more like a personal experience of interaction with the divine. That makes you the receiver of a personal message from God. Are you claiming to be a prophet?

[PointOfViewGun]

For the record, there is no original sin concept in Islam. Every man and woman is responsible for their own actions. Hence, Muhammad was not selected to save anyone from a sin that was done generations ago as there was and is no need to.

[conon394]

For the record, there is no original sin concept in Islam. Every man and woman is responsible for their own actions. Hence, Muhammad was not selected to save anyone from a sin that was done generations ago as there was and is no need to.

Without Augustine there would not likely be original sin in Christianity either (I admit the potential is in Paul but its certainly not the full Manichaeism of Augustine). Its too bad Pelagius was not the more politically astute and maybe also keeping Caelestius on a shorter leash. Although I think Pelagius was a bit too much of the astatic monk overall Julian of Eclanum really provided the best reply to Augustin's dualist interpretation of Paul. I realize the debates of the early church fathers are not really something most people ever learn but its unfortunate Julian was essentially a generation after Pelagius and Caelestius - neither of them had the required education to fight a battle of letters nor the connections in the church and lay politics to face Augustine. Julian did but was effectively fighting a rear guard action after Augustine had already won and poisoned Christianity with his original sin. That Augustine felt the need to spent most of his last 10 years and 4 works totaling 17 books to crush Julian after the battle was essentially over says much about how things might have been had not terse Pelagius and rather un diplomatic Caelestius been his first opponents and critics.




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@basics

You see my Saviour lives unlike Mohammed.

And no doubt I can find a people who's personal experience of the faith in Islam is as certain or in Tibetan Buddhism. But you dismiss it out of hand

Also not reply on the startling lack of love from Jesus at Jericho - no worries about casting the first stone there huh?

[basics]

For the record, there is no original sin concept in Islam. Every man and woman is responsible for their own actions. Hence, Muhammad was not selected to save anyone from a sin that was done generations ago as there was and is no need to.

PointOfViewGun,

Then why is it that it is Jesus Christ, not Mohammed, Who is coming back to Judge all things? To do that surely it must be clear that Jesus Christ is Almighty God and therefore what Islam teaches you is quite wrong?

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,

Then why is it that it is Jesus Christ, not Mohammed, Who is coming back to Judge all things? To do that surely it must be clear that Jesus Christ is Almighty God and therefore what Islam teaches you is quite wrong?

One doesn't have to be God to judge its creation. Are you questioning God's power to appoint someone to pass judgment? Your logic has no basis.

[conon394]

PointOfViewGun,

Then why is it that it is Jesus Christ, not Mohammed, Who is coming back to Judge all things? To do that surely it must be clear that Jesus Christ is Almighty God and therefore what Islam teaches you is quite wrong?

I will stand correction but as far as I know god is your judge in Islam not Mohamed. The latter being god's prophet. Your QED is wide of the mark I think.

Still no word on where Jesus loving ministry was a Jericho?

[basics]

Ahhh... a dream. That explains it.

Your dream sounds more like a personal experience of interaction with the divine. That makes you the receiver of a personal message from God. Are you claiming to be a prophet?

antaeus,

Sorry I missed answering this one but no, I am not a prophet nor do I claim to be. This event happened a couple of days after I was converted and perhaps God's reason was that I was still confused by it all so to lay that to rest He took me back to see Jesus' last moments on the cross simply because I knew nothing of the crucifixion other than what I had heard as a child. I mean I had seen pictures or paintings of it yet I never ever thought of the consequences behind it for that was the type of sinner I was. It was only after my experience that I poured over the Scriptures to see just how horrible it actually was and how out of touch these pictures and paintings are. That He went through that so that I could be saved from my sin is why I cannot stop telling on these threads the importance of knowing Jesus Christ to be your Saviour whilst the chance is still available.

[conon394]

@basics still missing an explanation for the lack of at Jericho.

[Murphy34]

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[conon394]

Oh banned - bummer - and man was I tempted to click a 1000% what could be not right with that everything like that is legit.

[basics]

One doesn't have to be God to judge its creation. Are you questioning God's power to appoint someone to pass judgment? Your logic has no basis.

PointOfViewGun,

As Jesus Christ is our Creator it is quite logical that He is coming to finalise all things. The living and the dead will see Him in all His Glory and every knee will bow down to acknowledge Him as God, some with joy but most with fear and trembling because of their unbelief. That people are sent to hell for all eternity whilst His people, born again of the Holy Spirit are to be given new heavenly bodies fit for the New Heaven and Earth which will replace the old creation now gone forever. That is what is written in God's Word. You should read it before it is too late.

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,

As Jesus Christ is our Creator it is quite logical that He is coming to finalise all things. The living and the dead will see Him in all His Glory and every knee will bow down to acknowledge Him as God, some with joy but most with fear and trembling because of their unbelief. That people are sent to hell for all eternity whilst His people, born again of the Holy Spirit are to be given new heavenly bodies fit for the New Heaven and Earth which will replace the old creation now gone forever. That is what is written in God's Word. You should read it before it is too late.

Are you trying to cover up a failed argument with preaching? Because it looks a lot like you're trying to cover up a failed argument with preaching. Taking Bible as the truth to pass judgment on what Islam says has no basis in logic. It's merely your preference. Yet, earlier you tried to make an argument of logic. That's not how any of it works. Are you going to actually address any of the questions I asked?

[basics]

Are you trying to cover up a failed argument with preaching? Because it looks a lot like you're trying to cover up a failed argument with preaching. Taking Bible as the truth to pass judgment on what Islam says has no basis in logic. It's merely your preference. Yet, earlier you tried to make an argument of logic. That's not how any of it works. Are you going to actually address any of the questions I asked?

PointOfViewGun,

Such as?

[conon394]

PointOfViewGun,

As Jesus Christ is our Creator it is quite logical that He is coming to finalise all things. The living and the dead will see Him in all His Glory and every knee will bow down to acknowledge Him as God, some with joy but most with fear and trembling because of their unbelief. That people are sent to hell for all eternity whilst His people, born again of the Holy Spirit are to be given new heavenly bodies fit for the New Heaven and Earth which will replace the old creation now gone forever. That is what is written in God's Word. You should read it before it is too late.

Well actually its not logical particular your complex 3 part deity which not in fact in the OT.


Also you have pondered the lack of Jesus having returned yet in light of

Mathew 24:34 "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." (all the signs of Jesus second coming and the event itself) The same verse to be found in Mark and Luke. Technically seeing a Mark is the earliest work I suppose I should have cited that verse in reality. Mathew 16:28 is again emphatic the coming of Jesus is going to happen imminently - in the lifetime of some of the people hearing the words. Admittedly 1 John and Paul in his letters are more vague but that seems again a contradiction in what is supposed to be by you the word of god.


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@MIketom

The statement "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" is considered profound by some as it is a religious belief that explains the origin of the universe and the world we live in

Your point? It no more or less profound than any other creation story/myth in any other religion in general and profound only if you have faith in said religion.

The statement suggests that a higher power, in this case God, is responsible for creating everything

Or rather I have no potential rational explanation for this so invisible powerful things did it who unsurprisingly seem to often and in most cases look like people. (re Xenophanes).

Many religious people believe in miracles and have seen or experienced them, but others may not believe in them because they have not personally witnessed them. Some individuals may be resistant to the idea of miracles because it could challenge their current beliefs and understanding of the world.

Or there is a sufficiently rational explanation that does not require recourse to a miracle to explain an event.

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,

Such as?

My post had 3 sentences. You show me that you're trying to deflect by asking such a question. Why is it that you can not produce any argument to back up the logic you presented here earlier?

[basics]

PointOfViewGun,

Point me to them and I will surely answer.