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Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
antaeus,Originally Posted by antaeus
Oh Jesis was/is a Prophet and funnily enough is the One Who is going to Judge Mohammed just as He will everyone else alive or dead, why? Because not only is He the Prophet but is also God as only God can Judge all things. Now, what's the difference between the two? Well, Jesus offers you eternal life whilst you still live on this planet whilst Mohammed offers nothing in this life but perhaps the mercy of Allah once your dead.
Cool and normal
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
You didn't answer the question you're quoting.
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Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
I was referring to a past exchange where he claimed that women's periods are painful because of their sin in the garden which is something that does not exist in the Bible.
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Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Every still seems to die. Not seeing the eternal lifeWell, Jesus offers you eternal life whilst you still live on this planet
Last edited by conon394; January 10, 2023 at 06:28 AM.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
conon394,
How many times is it written that men who were supposed to be dead were seen with Jesus or told of by Jesus? And, how many saw Jesus after His own resurrection? I thought you read the Bible?
Cool and normal
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Resurrection is also attested in Hinduism and certain Buddhist sects, not to mention Islam. Are those who recorded their events liars?
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hoi polloi
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
So you got isolated cases in the bible as examples of Jesus' power and the resurrection. That does not amount o the general statement you made above. Second that exists only in the gospels written well after Jesus died. No external sources attests to them (or any of the much grander miracles that will not have gone unnoticed). But in general the Bible does not support your assertion and its gospels are not terribly credible.How many times is it written that men who were supposed to be dead were seen with Jesus or told of by Jesus? And, how many saw Jesus after His own resurrection? I thought you read the Bible?
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
hoi polloi
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Might also add Hinduism asserts cycle of reincarnations until your soul achieves liberation from the cycle.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Yes the letters says scripture is inspired by God, but the letter isn't inspired by God. 2 Timothy 3:15 says "all scripture is given of inspiration by God", but the verse before clearly indicates he is speaking to the scripture Timothy studied as a child, that is pre-Jesus material only is inspired scripture. The New Testament clearly states that the New Testament is not inspired.
Jatte lambastes Calico Rat
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Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
conon394,
Quote, " Peter Assumed Paul’s Writings Were New Testament Scripture
Not only did Paul call Luke’s writing Scripture, Peter said that Paul’s writings were Scripture. He wrote:
And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures. (2 Peter 3:15-16 NET)
Peter compares the writings of Paul to the “rest of the Scriptures.” To him, they carried God’s divine authority.
Thus, these two passages called certain writings Scripture which were not part of the Old Testament. Consequently, it would be fair to assume that 2 Timothy 3:16 also refers to the New Testament writings, as well as the Old Testament.
hoi polloi
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Paul does not cite Luke nor could he have he preceded it.Not only did Paul call Luke’s writing Scripture
------------------
From my point of view it does not matter if the text claims some or all of is inspired by god. Since of course the Quran equally claims essential the same about its text(*). As so to the LDS about their book as well... Just as the Dali Lama claims the power to not reincarnate so as to deny the Chinese government from finding a puppet successor.
In any case basics still has not clearly defined the meaning of his statement in 101.
"Peter compares the writings of Paul to the “rest of the Scriptures.” To him, they carried God’s divine authority."
Exactly what Mohamed says as well.
Last edited by conon394; January 12, 2023 at 09:18 PM.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Cool and normal
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Because there is no verifiable evidence for any divine inspiration or contact or prophesy, we are left essentially picking the religious leader that speaks to us personally - our personal wants or desires, or the one that is forced upon us by our upbringing.
In that respect, the difference between us trusting Mohammed, and Peter or the Dali Lama, is our own circumstance: I like vanilla ice cream, or I only eat vanilla ice cream because my father did, or I only eat vanilla ice cream because it is mandated by law that I like it. In all cases I trust that the ingredients are accurate, not because it has been tested and verified, but because the person at the store says so.
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Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
2 Timothy 3:16 explicitly describes Scripture as that which they studied in their youth, excluding present material. You are correct that 2 Peter 3: 16 contradicts this, one of many contradictions in the Bible.
Further 2 Peter 3:15-16 claims Paul writes :"the longsuffering of the Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you" but nowhere does Paul write this in Scripture.
Is the Bible missing a bit?
Jatte lambastes Calico Rat
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
It's a miracle how this story about the healed eye looks as if taken right from the Tim Minchin song. God really works in mysterious way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
antaeus,
The problem is that Mohammed is nowhere in the Bible other than being a false preacher with a false gospel that is no Gospel at all.
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Well, Paul is false preacher in Quran, and it's not seem to be a problem. Same situation with Muhammad.
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Loyt,
Your problem is that the Koran is not God's Word.
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
I have no problem with that, only with argumentation based on blatant double standarts. Which you use.
hoi polloi
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
Problem is neither is Jesus. Why do insist on dancing away from direct questions, please quote where you think Paul cites Luke
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Cool and normal
Re: David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles
How do you know that? The evidence for the Koran's divine inspiration is identical to the evidence for the Bible's.
What metric do you use to decide between the two?
Look... these questions go around and around, you avoid the questions. Because there is no independently verifiable evidence based answer. The answer as to why the Bible and not the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita is because it's message spoke to you, and convinced you of it's veracity, and that's good enough yes? I'm OK if you just answer each of our questions with that - at least you'd be answering us rather than avoiding the question.
Last edited by antaeus; January 13, 2023 at 04:29 PM.
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