SSHIP v. 098 - archive of discussion during testing

[kostic]

So I started a campaign again. This time I chose HRE (still in VH/VH)
There is an overpowered army on the side of Frankfurt. My 2 generals had to flee because they were not up to the enemy general. And for good reason ! The latter has EE bodyguards with an armor of 1, whereas this level of armor for this type of unit should only be obtained after phase 3 in the armory.
I think you really need to avoid assigning too much armor in the early game. This shows anachronistic units. I took screenshots of the army but Imgur is down tonight...

; near BRANDENBURG
character sub_faction poland, Stoigniew, named character, male, age 28, x 172, y 226
traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 2 , GoodCommander 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , GoodAdministrator 2 , StrategyDread 3 , Austere 1 , PublicFaith 1 , GovernorInclination 1 , Ai_MoveFix 1
army
unit EE Bodyguard exp 1 armour 1

[guy1]

Now you've got also access to a regional buildings line (Norman Strongholds). In Tunis you'd find also an Alkazar.

I love that detail. It helps sell how Norman Sicily might've gained long-term control over the region. They had brief hegemony over coastal Maghreb but maybe if they adopted the strategy of the Normans of England of building strongholds, perhaps they would've been more successful.

[Jurand of Cracow]

thanks, @kostic. I've just had a go through the initial file (descr_strat.txt) and it was the only unit with an upgrade of armour. However, in the script I've seen a number of upgraded units. That's perhaps a legacy of SS. All will be downgraded to armour 0 in the next version.

[The Despondent Mind]

Both Early and High/Late are fully playable, right?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Both Early and High/Late are fully playable, right?

no, late is disabled

[The Despondent Mind]

I recorded a crash, I have uploaded the log and the video. Early Campaign, the rest of relevant info is obvious in the video(just keep in mind I Forgot to record the cursor).

https://streamja.com/0jXd6

[Belovèse]

Thanks for the very nice report!

Sadly the log doesn't have anything useful in it, too much time has past between the last entry and the crash.
From the video alone I don't have a particular crash cause in mind, maybe others will have something.

Is the crash reproducible, and if so, does it happen every time or only some times?
Could you also send the save please, so we can test it on our own computers?

[The Despondent Mind]

Thanks for the very nice report!

Sadly the log doesn't have anything useful in it, too much time has past between the last entry and the crash.
From the video alone I don't have a particular crash cause in mind, maybe others will have something.

Is the crash reproducible, and if so, does it happen every time or only some times?
Could you also send the save please, so we can test it on our own computers?

Unfortunately I don't have that save anymore, but I do have saves just a turn before and after. And I was able to recreate that CTD sometimes, but not always. I simply could not figure out, what action is exactly the problem.

[aaronp]

For some reason the map is completely flooded for me--the terrain is just one big water texture with coastline. I feel like I've read about that happening before but I can't find or remember the context. Is this an issue with a known cause?

Might have something to do with running the game through linux/wine, but no other mod has this issue and I didn't have this issue in an earlier version of 098.

I'm attaching a log if it helps.

[j.a.luna]

OK sship developers, I have found some "bugs" or incorrect things regarding Byzantine recruitment, which could be improved for the next version:


1. Regarding the Tagmata or imperial units, it is correct that the katapraktos and the Varangian guard are recruited in the Imperial Palace of Constantinople, but the "vestiaritais" should also be recruited because they were the personal guard of the emperor together with his mercenaries of the guard Varangian. Thus we would have the 3 imperial units only being possible to recruit them in Constantinople and in the Imperial Palace (if Jurand does not want to create another maximum level of the chain barracks called "Tagmata Barracks").


2. The infantry units called "symachika tagmata" are not possible to recruit in the game, I think you have removed them by mistake, these units were a mix of peoples like Serbs, Bulgarians, Slavs, Greeks... I think it would be nice to include them on the 3rd level of the castle barracks.


4.Archontoupolai at that time were already anachronistic so they should be eliminated, in the nikkosaiz roster these units were eliminated, on the other hand more mercenary units such as Alans and Turkopoles would be added. If you want to keep them present in the game it would be convenient to have them inside the "orphanages" building as they were the orphans of fallen military officers.


5. Add the Gasmouli unit (Italian-Greek crossbowmen) in the archery of the castles (4th level), and in the cities too but in their highest levels of barracks.


6.Add Menaulion pikemen units to the game, these Byzantine pikemen units were widely used along with skoutatoi in Roman formations, from the beginning of the game, recruitable in cities (high levels of barracks)


7. Finally I have realized that the SKOUTATOI units (swordmen and spearmen) can be recruited in the cities, this is a success since they were the professional units of the Romans (their modern legions) but they should ONLY be recruited in HIGH BARRACKS LEVELS (militia barracks and army barracks), at first only Constantinople would be able to recruit them in their barracks since they are powerful units and require a high level of barracks, currently I have seen that some small cities like Arta or others with low level of development they have it, (2nd level of the barracks), this is a mistake and should be modified, only large city levels (large city and huge city). On the other hand, the castles could already produce these units from their 3rd level of barracks.




HERE IS MY LOGICAL AND HISTORICAL PROPOSAL FOR BYZANTINE RECRUITMENT:


+For the city barracks I think they should be:
-1st level(TOWN WATCH)--- 2 kontaratoi
-2nd level(TOWN GUARD)--- 2 kontaratoi, 1psiloi toxotae
-3rd level(CITY WATCH)--- 2 kontaratoi, 2 psiloi toxotae, 1psiloi acontistae
-4th level(MILITIA DRILL SQUARE)---3 kontaratoi (1 experience), 2 psiloi toxotae, 2psiloi aconstistae, 1 menaulion pikemen
-5th level (MILITIA BARRACKS)---4 kontaratoi (2 experience), 3 psiloi toxotae (1 experience), 3 psiloi aconstistae (1 experience), 2 menaulion pikemen, 2 gasmouli , 1 skoutotai spearmen, 1 skoutatoi swordmen
-6th level(ARMY BARRACKS)---5 kontaratoi(3 experience) , 3 psiloi toxotae (1 experience), 3 psiloi aconstistae (1 experience) , 3 menaulion pikemen(1 experience) , 2 gasmouli , 2 skoutotai spearmen, 2 skoutatoi swordmen

+For the castle barracks I think they should be:
-1st level(MUSTERING HALL)--- 1 kontaratoi, 1 psiloi aconstistae
-2nd level(GARRISON QUARTERS)--- 2 kontaratoi, 1psiloi toxotae, 1 peltastes
-3rd level(DRILL SQUARE)--- 3 kontaratoi(1 experience), 2 psiloi aconstistae (1 experience), 2 peltastes (1 experience), 1 skoutatoi spearmen
-4th level(BARRACKS)---3 kontaratoi(2 experience) , 2 psiloi aconstistae (2 experience), 2 peltastes (2 experience), 2 skoutatoi spearmen, 1 skoutatoi swordmen, 1 symachika tagmata
5th level (ARMORY)---4 kontaratoi(3 experience) , 2 psiloi aconstistae (1 experience), 2 peltastes (1 experience), 3 skoutatoi spearmen (1 experience), 2 skoutatoi swordmen(1 experience), 2 symachika tagmata(1 experience).


+For the IMPERIAL PALACE (TAGMATA): 2 katapraktoi , 2 AngloVarangoi guard, 2 Vestiaritai, 2 Anglosaxon huskarls (it is possible that these huscarls are also recruited from the barracks but only in constantinople)


+For the Alchemist Laboratory: (ONLY IN CONSTANTINOPLE AS SECRET GREEK FIRE)
1st level--- 1 Siphonatores
2nd level--- 2 Siphonatores, 1 Naffatun




+For the STABLES of the castles:


-1st level(STABLES)--- 1 Mounted akritae
-2nd level(KNIGHT STABLES)--- 2 Mounted akritae, 1 Vardariotai
-3rd level(BARON STABLES)--- 2 Mounted akritae, 2 Vardariotai, 1 latinikon
-4th level(EARL STABLES)---3 Mounted akritae(1 experience), 3 Vardariotai, 2 latinikon, 2trapezuntine horse archers


5th level (KING STABLES)---4 Mounted akritae(1 experience), 3 Vardariotai, 3 latinikon, 2 trapezuntine horse archers


* The regional units of each area would be added, such as Magyar horse archers, Alans, Turkopoles, Pechenegs...


+For the arcades of the castles:


-1st level(BOWYER)--- 1 psiloid toxotae
-2nd level(PRACTICE RANGE)--- 2 psiloi toxotae, 1 mourtatoi
-3rd level(ARCHERY RANGE)--- 3 psiloi toxotae, 2 mourtatoi, 1 gasmouli
-4th level(MARKSMAN RANGE)---4 psiloi toxotae(1 experience), 3 (1 experience) mourtatoi, 2 gasmouli


*the regional units of each zone would be added, such as hunters, slavic javelinmen, armenian archers...
If you like the proposal, tell me, I think it makes its recruitment quite historical and logical, maybe something needs to be improved, if you want you can add it to the byzantine thread, in guides.


In addition to making recruitment progressive according to their levels, we would also make the city of Constantinople very valuable to have for the Byzantines, for having its elite units and its secret of Greek fire (it would also include in the Byzantine port of Constantinople the Ships of Greek fire as unique to their port)


+Another curious proposal would be that in order to have the Trapezione horse archers throughout the Empire we would need to conquer TREBIZONDA (where they originated) I don't know if this is possible but in other mods I have seen that conquering a settlement gives you access to a type of units , and if you lose it you can no longer recruit them, this would be quite interesting to have, it would be like a supply of regional units for your entire Empire and your army, same case with African units that if you lose certain settlements you can no longer recruit them.




I hope my proposals will help you, especially because I really like playing with the Romans!!!

[Belovèse]

For some reason the map is completely flooded for me--the terrain is just one big water texture with coastline. I feel like I've read about that happening before but I can't find or remember the context. Is this an issue with a known cause?

Might have something to do with running the game through linux/wine, but no other mod has this issue and I didn't have this issue in an earlier version of 098.

I'm attaching a log if it helps.

Sadly I won't be able to help you, the mod is not made with linux in mind and I've no knowledge of how to fix this.
I'm also using linux, but for modded game I dualboot into windows. Not the best solution I know, but for me certainly the easiest!

[kostic]

For some reason the map is completely flooded for me--the terrain is just one big water texture with coastline. I feel like I've read about that happening before but I can't find or remember the context. Is this an issue with a known cause?

Might have something to do with running the game through linux/wine, but no other mod has this issue and I didn't have this issue in an earlier version of 098.

I'm attaching a log if it helps.

What faction do you play with ? Can you also give us your backup to see if the problem repeats with us ?
There was for this new version a modification of the maximum height of the terrain which corrected objects (city, castle...) flying. The sea level has not changed. If we don't have the same problem, then we will know that the software works differently with Linux.

[aaronp]

Note that I'm not using the Linux port because that version is much more hit-and-mostly-miss with mods. I'm using the Windows version in Wine—basically a Windows emulator. So a real difference would indicate that there is a bug in wine and if that's the case, I can report this elsewhere. Moreover, it shouldn't require any special support from your team. That would be a wine problem.

But an issue in wine seems unlikely, because it only effects this mod. I'd like to investigate this more first and maybe find the root cause. I'm suspicious that this is actually a bug in the game/mod that only triggers with some configurations, because I vaguely remember hearing of this issue happening before and I don't usually have problems with mods.

I've confirmed that it happens with every faction.

Can you also give us your backup to see if the problem repeats with us ?

Well I've tried deleting the whole mod folder and replacing it with the files from the 7z on page one.

The md5sum for the archive is a4103f4b061484e3909319dc706e6747 if you want to confirm that I'm using the same file you're distributing and there's no corruption, which was a consideration of mine. 7z isn't detecting any issues with the archive, though. I've tested with a clean confugration.cfg as well, except for changing the campaign and battle resolution to 1920x1080.

I'm launching the game like this if it makes a difference:

steam -applaunch 4700 @mods/SSHIP_098/configuration.cfg

There was for this new version a modification of the maximum height of the terrain which corrected objects (city, castle...) flying.

Is it possible for me to revert this change locally? Would be useful to confirm this as the cause. I wonder if this is triggering a GPU/driver issue. I use AMD hardware. Are you all on nvidia?

[moralrelativism]

Is the Custom Battle feature shut down for SSHIP0.98?
I have installed 0.98 - it looks amazing! However...
While I can definitely launch a campaign and fight battles on campaign maps without encountering CTD thus far, it occurs to me the Custom Battle feature is not working: whenever I click on that option, the game freezes for seconds and then immediately crashes to desktop.
I reinstalled a clean version of SS6.4 and SSHIP0.98 from scratch. The problem remains.
Is that a known issue for 0.98 at its current stage or is it rather an unique glitch for my system?
It's a bit frustrating right now as I wish to review a few factions' rosters via Custom Battle as I always do but am currently unable to even enter the Custom Battle's interface without crashing.
Does anyone have a clue what the problem may be?

[kostic]

Your problem is really strange.
Have you tried redoing the map by deleting the map.rwm file (or running the Map and Bin file cleaner.bat file in the SSHIP_098 folder)
In data/world/base you have the file descr_terrain.txt that you can try to modify before redoing the map. I'm not sure it works but you can always try.

dimensions
{
width 510
height 288
}
heights
{
min_sea_height -3406.782
max_land_height 7511.272 <old value
}
roughness
{
at least 50,000
max 200.000
}
fractal
{
multiply 0.500
}
attitude
{
min 22.000
max 56,000
}

[j.a.luna]

OK sship developers, I have found some "bugs" or incorrect things regarding Byzantine recruitment, which could be improved for the next version:


1. Regarding the Tagmata or imperial units, it is correct that the katapraktos and the Varangian guard are recruited in the Imperial Palace of Constantinople, but the "vestiaritais" should also be recruited because they were the personal guard of the emperor together with his mercenaries of the guard Varangian. Thus we would have the 3 imperial units only being possible to recruit them in Constantinople and in the Imperial Palace (if Jurand does not want to create another maximum level of the chain barracks called "Tagmata Barracks").


2. The infantry units called "symachika tagmata" are not possible to recruit in the game, I think you have removed them by mistake, these units were a mix of peoples like Serbs, Bulgarians, Slavs, Greeks... I think it would be nice to include them on the 3rd level of the castle barracks.


4.Archontoupolai at that time were already anachronistic so they should be eliminated, in the nikkosaiz roster these units were eliminated, on the other hand more mercenary units such as Alans and Turkopoles would be added. If you want to keep them present in the game it would be convenient to have them inside the "orphanages" building as they were the orphans of fallen military officers.


5. Add the Gasmouli unit (Italian-Greek crossbowmen) in the archery of the castles (4th level), and in the cities too but in their highest levels of barracks.


6.Add Menaulion pikemen units to the game, these Byzantine pikemen units were widely used along with skoutatoi in Roman formations, from the beginning of the game, recruitable in cities (high levels of barracks)


7. Finally I have realized that the SKOUTATOI units (swordmen and spearmen) can be recruited in the cities, this is a success since they were the professional units of the Romans (their modern legions) but they should ONLY be recruited in HIGH BARRACKS LEVELS (militia barracks and army barracks), at first only Constantinople would be able to recruit them in their barracks since they are powerful units and require a high level of barracks, currently I have seen that some small cities like Arta or others with low level of development they have it, (2nd level of the barracks), this is a mistake and should be modified, only large city levels (large city and huge city). On the other hand, the castles could already produce these units from their 3rd level of barracks.




HERE IS MY LOGICAL AND HISTORICAL PROPOSAL FOR BYZANTINE RECRUITMENT:


+For the city barracks I think they should be:
-1st level(TOWN WATCH)--- 2 kontaratoi
-2nd level(TOWN GUARD)--- 2 kontaratoi, 1psiloi toxotae
-3rd level(CITY WATCH)--- 2 kontaratoi, 2 psiloi toxotae, 1psiloi acontistae
-4th level(MILITIA DRILL SQUARE)---3 kontaratoi (1 experience), 2 psiloi toxotae, 2psiloi aconstistae, 1 menaulion pikemen
-5th level (MILITIA BARRACKS)---4 kontaratoi (2 experience), 3 psiloi toxotae (1 experience), 3 psiloi aconstistae (1 experience), 2 menaulion pikemen, 2 gasmouli , 1 skoutotai spearmen, 1 skoutatoi swordmen
-6th level(ARMY BARRACKS)---5 kontaratoi(3 experience) , 3 psiloi toxotae (1 experience), 3 psiloi aconstistae (1 experience) , 3 menaulion pikemen(1 experience) , 2 gasmouli , 2 skoutotai spearmen, 2 skoutatoi swordmen

+For the castle barracks I think they should be:
-1st level(MUSTERING HALL)--- 1 kontaratoi, 1 psiloi aconstistae
-2nd level(GARRISON QUARTERS)--- 2 kontaratoi, 1psiloi toxotae, 1 peltastes
-3rd level(DRILL SQUARE)--- 3 kontaratoi(1 experience), 2 psiloi aconstistae (1 experience), 2 peltastes (1 experience), 1 skoutatoi spearmen
-4th level(BARRACKS)---3 kontaratoi(2 experience) , 2 psiloi aconstistae (2 experience), 2 peltastes (2 experience), 2 skoutatoi spearmen, 1 skoutatoi swordmen, 1 symachika tagmata
5th level (ARMORY)---4 kontaratoi(3 experience) , 2 psiloi aconstistae (1 experience), 2 peltastes (1 experience), 3 skoutatoi spearmen (1 experience), 2 skoutatoi swordmen(1 experience), 2 symachika tagmata(1 experience).


+For the IMPERIAL PALACE (TAGMATA): 2 katapraktoi , 2 AngloVarangoi guard, 2 Vestiaritai, 2 Anglosaxon huskarls (it is possible that these huscarls are also recruited from the barracks but only in constantinople)


+For the Alchemist Laboratory: (ONLY IN CONSTANTINOPLE AS SECRET GREEK FIRE)
1st level--- 1 Siphonatores
2nd level--- 2 Siphonatores, 1 Naffatun




+For the STABLES of the castles:


-1st level(STABLES)--- 1 Mounted akritae
-2nd level(KNIGHT STABLES)--- 2 Mounted akritae, 1 Vardariotai
-3rd level(BARON STABLES)--- 2 Mounted akritae, 2 Vardariotai, 1 latinikon
-4th level(EARL STABLES)---3 Mounted akritae(1 experience), 3 Vardariotai, 2 latinikon, 2trapezuntine horse archers


5th level (KING STABLES)---4 Mounted akritae(1 experience), 3 Vardariotai, 3 latinikon, 2 trapezuntine horse archers


* The regional units of each area would be added, such as Magyar horse archers, Alans, Turkopoles, Pechenegs...


+For the arcades of the castles:


-1st level(BOWYER)--- 1 psiloid toxotae
-2nd level(PRACTICE RANGE)--- 2 psiloi toxotae, 1 mourtatoi
-3rd level(ARCHERY RANGE)--- 3 psiloi toxotae, 2 mourtatoi, 1 gasmouli
-4th level(MARKSMAN RANGE)---4 psiloi toxotae(1 experience), 3 (1 experience) mourtatoi, 2 gasmouli


*the regional units of each zone would be added, such as hunters, slavic javelinmen, armenian archers...
If you like the proposal, tell me, I think it makes its recruitment quite historical and logical, maybe something needs to be improved, if you want you can add it to the byzantine thread, in guides.


In addition to making recruitment progressive according to their levels, we would also make the city of Constantinople very valuable to have for the Byzantines, for having its elite units and its secret of Greek fire (it would also include in the Byzantine port of Constantinople the Ships of Greek fire as unique to their port)


+Another curious proposal would be that in order to have the Trapezione horse archers throughout the Empire we would need to conquer TREBIZONDA (where they originated) I don't know if this is possible but in other mods I have seen that conquering a settlement gives you access to a type of units , and if you lose it you can no longer recruit them, this would be quite interesting to have, it would be like a supply of regional units for your entire Empire and your army, same case with African units that if you lose certain settlements you can no longer recruit them.




I hope my proposals will help you, especially because I really like playing with the Romans!!!

I don't know who is responsible for the unit recruitment part in the mod but I would like you to answer me if possible if my proposal can be carried out and you see it well.
I say this to make the mod more logical and historical, we must also review the recruitment for the Fatimies in terms of their black African units and for the Selyuks and Abbasids in terms of their Persian and Bedouin units. For the Moors it is fine, only the regional Andalusian part is missing.
I await your opinions!!!

[aaronp]

Well I fixed it! I would tell everyone how for future reference, but I don't... I don't exactly know. I think it was a graphics configuration thing on my end (for any other Linux users reading this, I had a loose vkbasalt.conf and dxvk.conf in the medieval2 directory that I deleted) that I completely forgot about, but why that might have effected SSHIP and not any other mod I can't say. Anyway the numbers you gave me are the ones in the archive (IDK if the changes just didn't make it in yet) but they do work so that part is good.

[aaronp]

Is the Custom Battle feature shut down for SSHIP0.98?
I have installed 0.98 - it looks amazing! However...
While I can definitely launch a campaign and fight battles on campaign maps without encountering CTD thus far, it occurs to me the Custom Battle feature is not working: whenever I click on that option, the game freezes for seconds and then immediately crashes to desktop.
I reinstalled a clean version of SS6.4 and SSHIP0.98 from scratch. The problem remains.
Is that a known issue for 0.98 at its current stage or is it rather an unique glitch for my system?
It's a bit frustrating right now as I wish to review a few factions' rosters via Custom Battle as I always do but am currently unable to even enter the Custom Battle's interface without crashing.
Does anyone have a clue what the problem may be?

Hey just in case this got buried by my own issue, I think 098 should be used standalone. So installing on top of ss6.4 might be the source of your issue.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I don't know who is responsible for the unit recruitment part in the mod but I would like you to answer me if possible if my proposal can be carried out and you see it well.

Hi j.a., I'm mostly responsible for recruitment and I cannot give you an answer because I have no time to delve into the intricacies of the Byzantine roster. The current scheme is are it was in SSHIP092 and preand before implementation of the nicossaiz changes to the units, including the names. I believe a thorough review will be needed, but I don't think we'll perform it soon as there're other facets of the mod that are to be reviewed earlier.

[j.a.luna]

Hi j.a., I'm mostly responsible for recruitment and I cannot give you an answer because I have no time to delve into the intricacies of the Byzantine roster. The current scheme is are it was in SSHIP092 and preand before implementation of the nicossaiz changes to the units, including the names. I believe a thorough review will be needed, but I don't think we'll perform it soon as there're other facets of the mod that are to be reviewed earlier.

Ook thank you Jurand!