Traitors?!

**paleeagle** · January 26, 2007, 03:25 PM

Ok. So i start playing as the Byzantines and go and seige Smyrna. On the last turn of the seige my faction heir and the entire army defects and becomes the new occupiers of Smyrna. Thought this was just a fluke so went to take revenge with another general. Last turn of seige He defects. Also while outside Moscow with a diplomat I saw the russian heir defect and take the whole defending army with him. And all this within the first 8 turns of my new byzantine campaign.

Have played them many times now and never seen it until now, my first time playing 1.3B

Have just seen a new open source thread but it doesnt mention anything about this?

Any ideas?

**itsnotvalid** · January 27, 2007, 12:36 PM

I also got Heir "deserted" in the fifth turn inside the castle he was staying. Left the new wife I agreed in the fourth turn. The save was created with 1.3B, and that is really strange.

**Scorch** · January 29, 2007, 12:56 AM

I had a similar problem, playing as Scotland on the 2nd turn I got the 'Traitor to our People' message and lo and behold, my faction heir had defected and was now a rebel general.

Extremely odd.

**paleeagle** · January 29, 2007, 04:35 AM

I have been told that the traitors issue is meant to be a part of the game, although it is being tweaked.

However darth is currently trying to get the battle ai perfect so is testing and tweaking that at the moment. Understandably he can only concentrate on one issue at a time.

AT the moment he wants everyone to test test test battles and let him know your findings.

**Khazaar** · February 01, 2007, 07:21 AM

I understand that the focus is on the battles but I preferr to play campaign to see how battles evolve and the AI moves it´s stacks. Currently the 1.3b campaign is broken.

I´ve tried three different starts but everytime I´m besieging or moving a big stack into enemy territory my general turns rebel with the complete stack.

Last time I played the egypts and I was in my third turn (I had three generals) my 6 loyalty General moves with a stack without mercs (don´t know if that makes any difference) to attack Jerusalem and turns rebel next turn without any reason.

Just let me know which files and parameters I have to edit so that its back to reasonable cause currently it´s broken....

**Supremo Desslock** · February 01, 2007, 07:29 AM

playing as england, 1.3 b, i had "only" one general go rebel in 20-30 turns (don't know how much loyalty he had). So far it's an aceeptable rhytm.

**NoRbAk** · February 01, 2007, 08:49 AM

@Khazaar...

The AI in 1.3B is not broken at all... it is the best available right now IMO.

Don't be so negative or you will fall to the Dark side of the force!!!!

You should take any difficulty as a challenge to work out a solution, and not just blame Darth (who is a genius) and say his mod is broken... OMG

One solution to traitors: put 2 generals in each full stack until faction leader has a lot of authority.

Did you like that?

Think twice next time before saying the problem is Darth's and not yours...

GL HF!!!!

**Khazaar** · February 01, 2007, 09:12 AM

First off I didn´t try to insult anyone (don´t want this to turn into a flamewar) I think your answer is relatively agressive towards me.

I´ve tried to play a couple of times (with egypt, maybe it´s fractionspecific) but at the start of the game your fractionleader is 60 and has no athority to speak of. Also you only have three generals so it´s difficult to doublestack them.

As I said before I dont really think that a 6 loyalty General should revolt while beeing close to his King, Capital and having never lost a Battle? I´m playing darthmod since RTW. I´ve always been impressed by his results, so in no way am I trying to insult or lessen anybody. But before Darth has focused on battles and reading other posts that seems to be his primary concern still, and I think that that´s exactly whats needed. I want to be challenged by battles for castles, citys and countrys and not by having my generals revolt wo any realistic cause.

For constructivitys sake I´d say that you could put Generals in three categories: Disloyal (0 to 3-4 points) Average (4-6) and Loyal (7 up)
I think it would be better if only disloyal Generals will revolt so you have a chance of guessing that that General is no use...

What are the main factors for Loyality:
proximity to King and Capitol
authority of the King
winning - loosingstreak (winning usually makes people content (to an extent))
size of the own army versus rest of the empire/kingdom (A disloyal general will feel safe when he knows that there is no big army to punish him for defecting while a loyal General might feel honoured to defend the Kingdom)

Also a graceperiod for the beginning Kingdom would be good or you don´t even have to start since you can´t choose your King or even the next King.

All in all I really don´t mind a challenge but only when there´s a chance for me to know who will defect, what good is the loyality trait if not for that.

Again, it would help me if I knew which files contain the defectratios so that I can tweak them a little. Maybe something good will come from this...

**Count_of_Buelna** · February 01, 2007, 12:46 PM

Just as a historical note, the primary causes leading to the Byzantine defeat at Manzikert was the betrayal of Seljuk sultan Alp Arslan by his trusted brother-in-law Arisiaghi. When Arisiaghi's plot was discovered he was in Constantinople - Romano IV refused Turkish demands to hand over the traitor - leading Alp Arslan to prepare for war and Romano to cross the border and invade with the Byzantine army that summer.

Bottom line- traitors happen.

**Count_of_Buelna** · February 01, 2007, 08:26 PM

But that said, I'm running 1.3 and have a totally repeatable traitor-event on turn ONE. It occured three times in a row:

1. Start as Denmark. Hard/Hard.
2. On turn one, send Prince Charles south to lay siege to Hamburg. Send the king to Sweden with the other half of your army. End turn.
3. On turn two, Prince Charles goes AWOL and half your army is gone.

**NoRbAk** · February 02, 2007, 03:52 AM

No agressivity meant.

I too started a game with egypt... all of my generals betrayed me (OMG!) and then I lost game when faction leader (who begins at age 60) died.

LOL?

So that is what I do: I start again, I put 2 generals in each army that leaves city, and in a few turns I own all the middle east rebels. In 1 turn I start war against turks attacking all their cities at the same time and finish the faction in the next turn... Egypt feels too easy now. Hope christian crusades and mongol invasion begin soon or it will be lame...

From time to time some army still betrays me but this is quite interesting because makes things a bit harder.

It is true that Darth focuses in battles for now...

I guess that in a few weeks he will have perfected all the battle system (unless 1.2 patch totally destroyes his work) and then expect his genious to fully improve AI campaign.

TY!!!!

**DARTH VADER** · February 03, 2007, 05:17 AM

Just try OS15 and tell me if this has been balanced

**Count_of_Buelna** · February 03, 2007, 08:36 AM

Darth- I downloaded and installed OS15 on top of 1.3_b and restarted the game as Denmark. Following the actions described in the previous entry I send Knud to Sweden and Charles to Hamburg. On turn 2, no betrayal. I played the first 10 turns without incident. However, I did observe one German army (led by a captain- no family members) besieging Madgeburg go rebel on turn 5.

Conclusion: I think you got the 'early betrayal' bug, but armies will still go rebel in the right circumstances.

Observation: Incredibly responsive actions from Darth - many many many thanks!

**TTSEC** · February 03, 2007, 01:48 PM

Armies are suppose to go rebel in the right circumstances.

**Khazaar** · February 04, 2007, 02:19 AM

I´ve tried with the Egyptians again and the instant rebellions were gone. Every once in a while a stack with commander still turns rebel but not every time. Still it happens more often when you besiege a city, I wonder why? Shuldn´t the forces that are besieged turn if they feel they receive no support from their King or that the food is running out? As a besieger you live of the enemies land and win a battle without even having to fight, that´s not too bad, is it?

All in all much better after OS 15. But diplomacy seems a bit skewerd. I managed to ally with every single christian nation including the papal states, I´m not sure if this is because we share no common borders. I even managed to buy an african setlement from venice and sicily each for roughly 3000 Gold.

Might be that they didn´t think that they could hold the settlements...

All in all a great improvement, thanks Darth....

**DARTH VADER** · February 04, 2007, 11:51 AM

Generally if you try to continue an existing DarthMod campaign with new OS15 you will notice how difficult will be to pacify the new conquers and so more careful strategy will be needed.

The disloyal generals or heretics will find opportunities to take away from you your valuable gains.
So you must try a more cautious approach to win the game than hit the turn button and blitz which somewhat insect like for me.