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Thread: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

  1. #1

    Default Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    What is Cathay? Ancient China


    Before the announcement of 3K, the chance of Cathay being on Warhammer 3 is close to 0. Now after 3K has been announced the possibility isn't 0 anymore, especially after what CA did on Norsca, Vampire Coast and custom lord. Assets from 3K can be modified/reused. The map can be cut like on Mortal Empire, Cathay can also act as an expedition force without including the whole map. It would make sense since they are one of the very few good "Order" factions fighting off against Chaos. And on the Darklands, we are lacking good factions, if the game only has 4 Chaos faction the game won't sell well. Kislev will be a good addition as a pre-order bonus.

    Marketing wise, its good since it will draw people who are interested in Warhammer onto 3K and people who are only interested in historic games/3K onto Warhammer, and fantasy has been proven to be effective with the sales of Warhammer, even on the reddit it's full of Warhammer fans


    In one of the Dev's interviews for 3K CA specifically said they were trying to get into the Chinese market since it is blooming, especially with 3K coming out, CA will be able to see if the sales of 3K are good enough for them to do a Cathay DLC to draw in more money, it's all marketing.

    Warhammer is also pretty big in China, in it's dedicated forum to Warhammer Total War it had close to 2.3 mil threads, meaning it's quite popular in China


    https://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=%E6%88%...BA%89&ie=utf-8


    3K also reach top selling on Steam twice on China, (When we barely know anything about the game)


    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...hile_in_china/


    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...he_second_top/

    This will also draw in the "Chinese market" in buying both 3K and Warhammer, since the visit from the Chinese community last time for 3K CA should have a grasp on what's going on.
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussi...rand-cathay/p1


  2. #2
    isa0005's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    Cathay was never going to be in Warhammer... there is so little information to go on, especially when it comes to army compositions.

  3. #3
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    I think we'll get Cathay. I said that for months

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by isa0005 View Post
    Cathay was never going to be in Warhammer... there is so little information to go on, especially when it comes to army compositions.
    This is all about money and marketing, If 3K is proven to be successful surely CA will not miss this chance for revenue and profit. Araby is also going to come in Game 2

    Army compositions?

    Someone made a great list and they are not fan made

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ghlight=Cathay

  5. #5
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    If CA is going to add Cathay, they will tackle Ind,Nippon... as well. So question is not if Cathay is workable due to 3K or not but how is CA planning to work with WH3 in general. WH3 is already in pre-production so 3K certainly will not influence it as much as you can imagine. A lot of plans is set in stone as of now.

    I agree we will see probably Araby and probably multi Lord pack for WH2 and maybe just maybe Southern Realms (who knows..) but looking ahead we have races of Chaos Dwarves, Ogre Kingdoms. We have no idea how CA will add Chaos Undivided. We are missing bigger part of Empire, Kislev...

    So if CA will do just minimal WH3, we will see probably world ending at Mountains of Mourn without the eastern factions
    IF CA decides to add them, we will see probably all of them somehow...

    EDIT: minimal/original way of CA thinking is easily to see in old dataleaked russian info. You can easily see ME campaign map a majority of factions. However as of now, we can easily see evolutionary changes....Skavens were not DLC race, Vampire Coast exists... So this dataleaked info is great source of info up to ME campaign map and possible early thingking about WH3. But as the info itself is pre WH1...it is not necesarry current CA plan. However I bet there are similarities and parallels even in live plan. But we simply will not know until we see campaign map of WH3/ME2.0, then you can easily say if those factions are included or not.
    Last edited by Daruwind; April 15, 2019 at 03:59 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    If CA is going to add Cathay, they will tackle Ind,Nippon... as well. So question is not if Cathay is workable due to 3K or not but how is CA planning to work with WH3 in general. WH3 is already in pre-production so 3K certainly will not influence it as much as you can imagine. A lot of plans is set in stone as of now.

    I agree we will see probably Araby and probably multi Lord pack for WH2 and maybe just maybe Southern Realms (who knows..) but looking ahead we have races of Chaos Dwarves, Ogre Kingdoms. We have no idea how CA will add Chaos Undivided. We are missing bigger part of Empire, Kislev...

    So if CA will do just minimal WH3, we will see probably world ending at Mountains of Mourn without the eastern factions
    IF CA decides to add them, we will see probably all of them somehow...

    EDIT: minimal/original way of CA thinking is easily to see in old dataleaked russian info. You can easily see ME campaign map a majority of factions. However as of now, we can easily see evolutionary changes....Skavens were not DLC race, Vampire Coast exists... So this dataleaked info is great source of info up to ME campaign map and possible early thingking about WH3. But as the info itself is pre WH1...it is not necesarry current CA plan. However I bet there are similarities and parallels even in live plan. But we simply will not know until we see campaign map of WH3/ME2.0, then you can easily say if those factions are included or not.
    I'm pretty sure Kislev will either be a preorder Bonus for Game 3 or as a base race for Game 3.

    The best would be it starting with Daemons of Chaos + Chaos Dwarves + Kislev + Ogre Kingdoms, worst would be 4 chaos factions. Missing chaos can easily come as Lord Packs

    3K does have an impact on Cathay, as I said one of the reasons why 3K was made was because of the booming market for China, which is all about $$$, 3K and WH3 do not collide with each other, in fact they will help each other with sales, drawing historic crowd onto fantasy and vice versa

    DLC plans come after the game is released, so this is merely a DLC speculation, I don't see Cathay any chance of being a base race for WH3

    We also don't have to include the whole map of the east, so it will be cut off on the left side, they might even appear as expedition forces

  7. #7
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    In Game 1, we have two order vs two chaos faction (Empire + Dwarves vs VC + GS). In Game 2, same: HE+Lizardmen vs DE + Skaven.

    I think Game 3 will follow something similar.

    So Chaos + Chaos Dwarves vs ? and ?

    What could be the options for order?
    - Cathay
    - Kislev
    - Empire v2

    I think it's likely to be Cathay + Kislev, and maybe Empire v2 as pre order bonus (since it could work on every map).

    With maybe Ogre as first DLC (same as TK).

  8. #8
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    You can alter campaign map with small changes like Sartosa, Albion, add province/region here (especially by splitting) or add mountain region there. At most you can hide segment of map as WE Athen Loren was....but for Cathay as for whole the rest of eastern part of world map it is either there or not. Look at ME vs Vortex vs Old World. Even if Lustria/Naggoroth/Southlands are not complete in ME, majority is there. The same logic must apply to Cathy/Nippon/Ind as well. Either there are in or they are out. That already issue for Southern Realms in Vortex..they are simply not there...

    Judging from Norsca, which is for WH1 and WH2 ME but not for WH2 Vortex, pre-order bonus could be easily Araby....That is working for WH2 Vortex+ ME, will not work in default WH3 campaign but will again work in ME2.0...Or Kislev or anything else, we do not know.

    DLC plans require campaign map. Look again at WE Athen Loren. It was there from very beginning. If Cathay is base race, the campaign map will stretch up to Cathay, if Cathay is DLC faction, again campaign map will stretch there.. They can use some islands for Vampire Coast faction but definitely not for such land base one. And it would actually make no sense. If they are going up to Cathay....you can easily add everything around as you would try to fill the area anyway...Horde style army makes no sense, Cathay is not Dogs of War.

    But you are missing our point, we are not against Cathay. We would actually love to see it included with everything else as well. There is just no point in further discussion as there is 0 new evidence for one way or another. 3K won´t help so much. You will get a few units for those factions but will have to do the rest anyway...and for each point we can provide counter point. It is too early to judge financial success of 3K thus impact for WH3.

    Anyway. Technically Araby even Southern Realms might be "good" factions...
    Last edited by Daruwind; April 16, 2019 at 06:52 AM.

  9. #9
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    Every speculation about the addition of any faction necessarily needs to be based on the data-mined map. Obviously, this map and the subsequent release plan is subject to change, but anything more than a slight modification is out of question. As Daruwing explained, the inclusion of Cathay (not to mention Nippon and the Kingdoms of Ind) requires the complete overhaul of the original, four initial factions, as well as the introduction of a huge landmass, something which Creative Assembly has been very reluctant to do since Empire, because it demands way too many resources, which must be spent to guarantee an acceptable quality of the design, the environment, the new units, path-finding and even beta-testing. So far, the only changes were much more modest and specifically destined to restore the relationship with potential customers, which had been harmed by the low rate of DLCs and the controversy surrounding the pre-order bonus for Warhammer I. By the way, the fact that CA planned from the beginning to feature the 4 Chaos deities for Warhammer III doubtlessly proves that the theme of 2 good versus 2 bad guys never really existed and was nothing but a random coincidence for the first two titles.

    To sum up, there is zero chance that CA will adopt such a radical stance to unify the 4 different factions to one and replace them with 3 other substitutes. It will increase the expenses too much, while the profits will not be affected in a proportional manner, which is why that even if a developper was actually positively disposed towards the idea, the administration would never give the green light. In my opinion, one more faction for Warhammer II (at the earliest, it will be announced around autumn) is the maximum we can expect. For Warhammer III, I will eat my hat, if the 4 original factions are not the 4 different Chaos deities, with the pre-order DLC being either Araby or, most probably, Kislev. Then, Chaos Dwarfs (presumably the shiniest and most sophisticated one) and Ogres will be the two DLCs. Given that the trilogy will end with these guys, there is no reason for Creative Assembly to prolong the DLC circle, because there is no gap to fill between the next title, to appease their "insatiable fans". Regarding the argument of lure the Chinese market, I believe that the role of Cathay is exaggerated. It's like claiming that Brettonia or the lizzards riding dinosaurs will attract the French and Mexicans, respectively. There far cheaper and more efficient methods to expand your brand on the lucrative field of the Chinese middle class than an otherwise obscure and hardly relatable kingdom at the edge of the Warhammer world.

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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    Before they did the Vortex map, it was not there. Before they are doing game 3, the campaign map for game 3 is not there. Even the map for game 1 was not there before they did it!

    Nothing prevent CA from REDOING the mega campaign map to expand it south and east if they wish.

    And even if they don't, and we see Cathay only marginally, what prevent them from putting Cathay in game 3 map? We have only half southlands in ME, but it's full in Vortex.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    There's absolutely nothing from Cathay that has ever been published as anything resembling an army.

    In fact, it's supposed to be "far away and mysterious," a place everyone has heard of but few if any from the old world have actually visited. Also making 3K makes Cathay's inclusion less likely, not more, since CA doesn't want to take away from their flagship historical product.
    ORANGE MAN BAD

  12. #12
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    I wish and want Cathay in Warhammer.

    I predict it will come.

    Do not ignore the Chinese Gaming Community.





















































  13. #13
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I think we'll get Cathay. I said that for months
    Agreed!

    OP - Where's the specific link where CA said they'll have a look at Cathay? I tried searching but couldn't find it anywhere. Which interview was this?





















































  14. #14

    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    I meant in one of the 3K interview videos, CA specifically said they were looking forward to the Chinese market, and how it is booming, so it is one of the factors in which why 3K was made in the first place, as well as Total War fans asking a total war set in China for years

    Regarding CA to Cathay, a map of Cathay was given to CA, and Chinese community basically ask if CA ever did Cathay they would buy it, the video of the visit is like 45 minutes long

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussi...rand-cathay/p1

  15. #15

    Default Re: Cathay might be a possibility based on Total War Three Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytaninc View Post
    There's absolutely nothing from Cathay that has ever been published as anything resembling an army.
    .
    There are official based on Bretonnian reskins from White Dwarf inregards to Cathay
    https://imgur.com/a/BKy1UOK#7BPQviv

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