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Thread: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

  1. #61
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    If someone can give me a better word for people who collectivise people together as a political weapon, instead of treating them as individuals, I actually do want a better descriptor.
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  2. #62
    irontaino's Avatar Deadass B
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Trumps says he's going to do it? This is the guy that couldn't bribe a sex worker without stuffing it up. The guy who went to Saudi Arabia and nearly tweeted a war with Qatar into existence because "someone" told him they were terrorists. The guy who said he would smash ISIS in 30 days, who was going to ban all Muslims from travelling to the US, who was going to make Mexico pay for the Wall.

    Not going to happen.
    I say if hes gonna do it, let him. If the sanctuary cities play their cards right (I.E. pathways to citizenship) it could be probably the only decent thing that happened under his administration that he could possibly take credit for.
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  3. #63

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    If someone can give me a better word for people who collectivise people together as a political weapon, instead of treating them as individuals, I actually do want a better descriptor.
    You mean people who rally groups for political actions? Politicians? I don't know what you mean "collectivise" here, how do you mean that differently than like, any other kind of political rallying.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Can some liberals help me out here? I’m having a bit of a disconnect. Please stop me at which point is wrong.

    1)illegal immigrants don’t compete for jobs or lower wages, their presence is no economic strain on the host city
    2)illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than Americans
    3)we should welcome as many illegals as possible into our cities

    Which point is incorrect? I’ve been told these talking points time and time again for years on this board. Now suddenly shipping illegal immigrants to your city is a problem?

  5. #65

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Depends. Does the employer use everify? If so, then a person here illegally will have a pretty hard time at that employer.
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  6. #66
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Well, some are.
    Good to know that some are willing to walk the walk.
    While I disagree with the policy of not working with the federal government as if they are their own country, at least I respect her honesty. Now, this woman should work with her advisors and the federal government to put up facilities etc and find the money to fund those from the city funds. It is not impossible. I disagree with it, but it is not impossible and I disagree with separating families more than with such policies of acceptance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    I don't think I really agree with the idea of sanctuary cities (of local governments intentionally refusing to work with the federal government to enforce the law) but your expectations seem unreasonable. It's not as though these sanctuary cities have no illegal immigrants themselves and are just talking the talk - they already have enough to deal with from what I can tell. For a terrible comparison, if you tell me you like bananas, would it make sense for me to send you 10,000 bananas? Probably not. You would want an amount that you can reasonably deal with.
    I said from the beginning that the punitive stance Trump has taken is indeed bad. Forcing me to choke on bananas is indeed bad.
    But if I say "instead of throwing all those extra bananas to the garbage, perhaps giving me some" and you didn't sent me 10000 bananas that would rot in my garden and then I would die from the diseases and the insects but allowed me to pick a few hundred that I would put in a special fridge, it would be better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    If someone can give me a better word for people who collectivise people together as a political weapon, instead of treating them as individuals, I actually do want a better descriptor.
    I would but all such descriptors are censored.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I said from the beginning that the punitive stance Trump has taken is indeed bad. Forcing me to choke on bananas is indeed bad.
    But if I say "instead of throwing all those extra bananas to the garbage, perhaps giving me some" and you didn't sent me 10000 bananas that would rot in my garden and then I would die from the diseases and the insects but allowed me to pick a few hundred that I would put in a special fridge, it would be better.
    Let me put why this banana analogy is weird. It doesn't matter what the politics of the sanctuary cities are. An overcrowded city is not necessarily a good thing. Shoving a whole lot of people into a city doesn't help it. Let's go back to the banana analogy. It's not like he'd be handing you 10,000 bananas and say 'eat them at your pleasure'. He'd be shoving them down your throat. That's a lot of potassium.
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  8. #68
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    God damn Gaidin, overcrowding? Too many migrants? That’s extremely xenophobic and racist of you. How dare you suggest there are too many immigrants. That’s fascist and anti-immigrant.
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  9. #69

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    God damn Gaidin, overcrowding? Too many migrants? That’s extremely xenophobic and racist of you. How dare you suggest there are too many immigrants. That’s fascist and anti-immigrant.
    America is a big place. I can criticize the President wanting to overcrowd five or six political targets to spite them all I want. No matter how welcoming these places are or are not(I reserve judgement) space is physical and is an issue.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  10. #70
    Praepositus
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    If someone can give me a better word for people who collectivise people together as a political weapon, instead of treating them as individuals, I actually do want a better descriptor.
    So someone who demonises a whole religious or ethnic group, treats them as a single bloc, threatens to ban their travel en masse, or forcibly transport them places, is that a collectivist in your mind?

    My descriptor for someone who organises a group of people for political ends is a politician. Collectivisation as a political term has a specific historic meaning within the Socialist tradition and is irrelevant in current US politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    God damn Gaidin, overcrowding? Too many migrants? That’s extremely xenophobic and racist of you. How dare you suggest there are too many immigrants. That’s fascist and anti-immigrant.
    Sarcasm done badly is really the worst kind of humour.
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  11. #71
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Let me put why this banana analogy is weird. It doesn't matter what the politics of the sanctuary cities are. An overcrowded city is not necessarily a good thing. Shoving a whole lot of people into a city doesn't help it. Let's go back to the banana analogy. It's not like he'd be handing you 10,000 bananas and say 'eat them at your pleasure'. He'd be shoving them down your throat. That's a lot of potassium.
    Well, as I said I was not talking about 10000 bananas but a few hundred out of 10000 bananas after I bought a fridge to store them. Also, from the news many mayors of sanctuary cities welcome the initiative and ask Trump to send immigrants. It's the Senators that make a fuss, not the mayors that gravitate towards what the city voted for.

  12. #72
    NorseThing's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Getting back to the original post and moving on before slipping on a banana peel.

    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...415-story.html

    The above is a link to an opinion piece in the LA Times. Not friendly to Trump, but the opinion writer has some good points. The problem is that Trump is not going to do this. He floats this stuff for the reporting and talking heads to crowd the media with. Promotion of the Trump political brand is not the same as policy implementation. The sooner the media gets this and stops helping the president at his game, the sooner this promotion nonsense will end.


    The real problem that the government faces is what to do with all the people that are being 'caged' for violating immigration regulations and violating the border entry regulations. They cannot all be sent back. In the case of the young ones not accompanied by a parent, this is a real problem. No person wants young ones in jail and no one wants to have the responsibility to see they are properly cared for. They are the real victims of the political problems here. All sides of the conflict are a real part of the problem.

  13. #73
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    I think the sanctuary cities could help alleviate this problem, by taking the refugees whether Trump actually tries to implement it or not, and keep them in better facilities. I don't think ICE will say no if Chicago offers to house 5000 extra immigrants in an renovated-for-the-purpose abandoned factory.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    I say if hes gonna do it, let him. If the sanctuary cities play their cards right (I.E. pathways to citizenship) it could be probably the only decent thing that happened under his administration that he could possibly take credit for.
    But liberal left wants more immigrants but doesn't want to live among them and is horrified that they'd be present in their nice white-only gated communities.

  15. #75
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    But liberal left wants more immigrants but doesn't want to live among them and is horrified that they'd be present in their nice white-only gated communities.
    Nope. A large number of Sanctuary City mayors actually encouraged Trump to go forward with the measure. It's senators that are barking, not the mayors of cities that voted for Sanctuary status.

  16. #76
    NorseThing's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I think the sanctuary cities could help alleviate this problem, by taking the refugees whether Trump actually tries to implement it or not, and keep them in better facilities. I don't think ICE will say no if Chicago offers to house 5000 extra immigrants in an renovated-for-the-purpose abandoned factory.
    I think most cities could help and would be willing to help out. The problem is this is now a political football with Trump and the Democrats wanting to score points. Of course this had been going on well before Trump and well before 'sancuary' cities was a coined phrase.. Also, helping out does not mean accepting a flood of people. And what we have now is a flood of people.

    Just link to give some perspective on the level of the problem:

    Detention Map & Statistics — Freedom for Immigrants

    https://www.freedomforimmigrants.org...ion-statistics





    The map keeps track of the more than 200 immigrant prisons and jails in the U.S. as ..... taxpayer dollars for immigration detention than any other ICE contractor.

    Two hundred facilities!! To reduce the numbers by half via custodial release would overwhelm 50 USA cities.

    I agree with you that the cites can help and make a bit of a difference. But would such help even alter the problem for the detained people?

    Oh, I also do not think Chicago would be the best example of improved housing versus ICE facilities. I have seen the public housing in Chicago, though it has been a few years. If I were in the Chicago public housing, I would move to another urban area and hope for the best. I am not saying living on the streets would be better, but....

  17. #77
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    I have seen the public housing in Chicago, though it has been a few years. If I were in the Chicago public housing, I would move to another urban area and hope for the best. I am not saying living on the streets would be better, but....
    It can't be that back. Apologies, but if they don't like public housing they can always go back to their countries.

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