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Thread: 2.35 Koinon Hellenon Strategy?

  1. #1

    Default 2.35 Koinon Hellenon Strategy?

    I've started playing again with the release of 2.35 and am very pleased with the progress. The biggest improvement is one I have not seen in the changelogs: the AI is smarter and more agressive early on. Whether this is an intended change or a side effect of other changes I know not. My new Hayasdan game in 2.35 has been a challenge from year one and is living up to it's "nigh impossible" difficulty rating. The AI has landed troops on my shores with boats, used spies to unlock gates and teamed up with allies to take my cities. Very impressive.

    So I thought I would try a western faction for once and started a new game as Koinon Hellenon. I've tried it about 5 times and, like clockwork, Epiros takes Sparte every time on the second turn without even besieging it, using elephants to destroy the gates. Korinthos stubbornly refuses to sally against my siege, and Makedonia plays smart and aggressive. I usually loose the Greek peninsula by turn ten and a lot of FMs die trying to defend it. Several strategies that have not worked: offering a ceasefire to Epiros on turn one (they happily accept then attack anyways), fighting a bunch of pitched field battles on turn one to whittle down the wandering enemy stacks, using spies to break into Korinthos (I take it with moderate loses but can't hold it) and reducing difficulty from my usual vh/vh to just h/h (strangely doesn't make much difference).

    Has anyone else had this happen? Does anyone have a good game plan for very early KH?

  2. #2

    Default Re: 2.35 Koinon Hellenon Strategy?

    Its one of my favourite factions from far back in the mod, so while I dont consider myself a great player I think I can give you some help. I usually play H/H myself.

    Epeiros is scripted to attack Sparta with one stack and have the other wander around the zone with little variations, so theres no easy way out. That together with the the way your initial holdings are placed relative to your 2 initial enemies and their armies you need to be agressive in the very first turns. You can pace yourself out later after that though I recommend been agressive for a bit longer to aim for stability.

    First turn strategy, use most of your initial treasury to hire mercs for Areus army in Krete. And make him siege Knossos. You may be able to assault first turn if lucky with your spy, if not reinforce this stack with some troops from Rhodes leaded by the younger Rhodios FM and assault in the second turn.
    Meanwhile, gather your many FM and other strating troops around Athens and attack the Makedonian troops on Euboia (northeast of Athens), you can leave the factio nhear and some garrison in Athens as this battle shouldnt be too difffiuclt. After your victory move them back to Athens or closer to Korinth. You can optionally have one of the Spartiata FM and some troops join this stack from Sparta.

    Second turn, assault Knossos if you didnt before and start transporting Areus and his troops back to the mainland while leaving the young Rhodios and a small garrison back. Sparta will be sieged (your comment actually surprises me as I have never seen them doing what you mention) so take your main stack and relieve it. Your numbers may be on the shorter side by your overall quality should be high with all those FM. Sometimes the AI seems to siege with Pyrrhus and sometimes with the other general that has a smaller stack. If its the latter it should be a nice but not too harsh battle. After that you should regroup with the reinforcements that Areus brings and attack the other stack, and strike at the other stack. Be it now or later the Pyrrhus battle its gonna be harsh one. But it can be one. If you decisevely defeat him (and the other stack), Epeiros will stop to be a problem for a while and likely keeping its troops to the north from there on.

    Your next objective should be to siege and take Korinthos as soon as possible one or two turns later with your now rejoined troops. Its a nice city that helps your starting income and it simplifies a lot your borders meaning that Athens will be your only border city, with Thermon acting as buffer in the western side. Sometimes Makedon seems to like send another medium army past Athens in its direction, so you may decide to attack that on the way to fight their forces separately even if it means delaying one turn the conquest.

    From here on you can decide more the pace you want and your obejctives. The 5 settlements and simpler borders means you can take your time. However Demetrias tends to be lightly defended at this point, after you weakened Makedon forces in those first turns and with most of its soldiers concentrated around Pella in the north, so its an easy pick and very worthy settlement due to good starting population and been home to Thessalian cavalry (the best you are gonna have access to directly for a long time). Pella, Ambrakia and Thermon will have both large and good quality (Thermon a little less on the quality side) garrisons and usually some extra stack around so they are gonna be hard to crack right away. However I recommend been agressive. All these cities are rich and part of your "core" after your reforms which will be the base of your nation. Epeiros usually takes the settlement to the north (Epidamnos after is conquered by them) which is worth picking even if worse than the others due to still been part of your core and not been too shabby.

    A strategy I have been using in later versions is to sail west while I build up my forces and economy. Taras is also part of your core, home to some unique and pretty solid skirmisher cavalry, much more lightly defended, and targeted early by Romans. Rushing it may avoid a later war with them (which you dont really want to provoke) and makes a nice addition although it wont be too rich at the start due to its size. If they conquer it in the very first turns dont despair as its not too rare for them to lose it back to Epeiros.
    You can continue towards Rhegion and Messania mostly also to take them before the Romans and both been core regions, atlhugh they are really small and Rhegion specially can take some casualties to grab given the roman rebels guarding it, and finally target Syracuse, though this one is really ahrd to crack too and wil lrequire a large garrison to cotnrol afterwards, but its one of the few metropolis at game start (triggering your initial step of reforms) and relativelly rich.

    However this later part of the strategy is largely optional, specially after Taras. You can focus on the mainland and come back later as those settlements arent usually conquered very early. Though dont wait too much or Rome will step in. Also as a side note, if during the early events you get you accept a certain amount of them or more (I recommend all as they usually give you some benefit right away even if at some cost), on turn 21 the Ptolemai will ally you, raising mutual relations a lot and declare war on Makedon with an army and a fleet spawning near Pella which you can profit if you atttack Pella that turn, though may run away if you dont.

    Exterminating Epeiros and Makedon is not neccesary but very recommendable. You are just very close and their settlements are very appealing to you for both recruitment and economic reasons (Pella in special is quite rich due to its mines). Once they are out you have a very solid base both militarily and economically and you can decide your targets more slowly while you let your family tree grow as you will be running on governor scarcity by now likely. Ionia is your best target due to proximity, relative prosperity and home to most of the remaining poleis that can be part of your "core" regions. If you didnt expand west you will want Pergamon to trigger your reforms (another one of the few starting Metropolis).
    Kyrene is also a poleis that can eventually be a core region with your best goverment, but it will trigger a war with the Ptolemai.

    Try to secure an alliance with Rome when you can. They can be quite dangerous and Carthage likes to attack you after a while if you expanded into Sicily though they tend to keep the war more naval, specially early on, you want the romans on your side and not theirs.

    Thats my basic strategical guide for the KH start. If you want some extra tactical guidance talking about units they have acess to or specific tactics I use in battles it can be provided.

    PS: Something minor also that I tend to do regarding strategy is keeping Areus in Sparta and aim to grow it as quickly as possible quickly expanding its farms and temple and with low taxes. In my case a bit due to the city symbolism but I like to put in there and Athens the highest tier goverment of which you only get 2 (though the different is very minor with the second best you will get on all your "core" regions). Sentimentalist apart, Sparta its home to some unique units (one which requires a certain farm size that needs city level to get) and its one of the few places that gives you cretans from the higher tier govermentsm the others been Athens and Korinth (that already start as cities), Rhodes (which should be easy to get to city level without special dedication), Krete itself (starts small so it will take quite long, although you get Kretans from the poleis there too, very slowly though) and the rest start controlled by Seleucids or Ptolemai so it isnt likely you will get them very quickly.

    We will either find a way, or make one.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 2.35 Koinon Hellenon Strategy?

    Thanks Jervaj, that is exactly what I was looking for. I'm starting a new KH game tonight and I will implement your strategies. Much appreciated!

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