View Poll Results: The Golan Heights should belong to...

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Thread: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

  1. #1
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Nope, not here. Actually this map depicts the Golan Heights as Syrian...

    Obviously Donald Trump's decision to recognize the annexation of the Golan Heights to the state of Israel has sparked a lot of global condemnation, but, to be honest, these negative reactions are as meaningful as United Nations' condemnation. The annexation of Golan Heights has essentially materialised, both de facto and de jure, since the early '80s, without any serious repercussion from the international perspective, while recent initiative of Washington presents Jerusalem with a significant diplomatic victory and offers the government a generous amount of prestige, just before the uncertain parliamentary elections. I understand that the process of recognition had basically started before 2019, but I don't think that the timing is a mere coincidence, as it's simply too beneficial for Netanyahu, not to suspect some sort of backstage negotiations between the Israeli prime-minister and the American president.

    Golan was captured by Israel as a result for the disastrous (for Syria) 6-days war. Israel has exploited the great defensive value of the mountainous region (including Mount Hermon), but there were talks of a compromise with Damascus and a possible, perhaps partial return of the occupied region. However, negotiations failed, as the Syrian Republic was not willing to accept Israeli terms, by sacrificing her alliance with Iran and her influence on neighboring Lebanon, while she also insisted on the 1967 borders, as opposed to those of 1948, which included the northern shore of the Sea of Galilee, a precious source of potable water. However, no Sinai-like agreement was achieved, while the Syrian Civil War meant that Israel was less inclined to give the valuable Golan for the sake of peaceful relations with a much weakened Syrian government. Of course, Israel gave back Quneitra, the former capital of the Syrian province, but the buildings and infrastructure had been completely destroyed by the Israelis, which prompted Syria to leave it abandoned, as a useful propaganda symbol of "Israeli barbarism".

    Obviously, the demographics of the region have changed drastically, since the Israeli offensive of 1967. The vast majority of the inhabitants either fled or were evicted by the advancing troops, while they were later forbidden to return, after the cessation of the hostilities. The exception was a small portion of the Druze community (approximately 7.000 men), which were permitted to coexist with the arriving Israeli settlers. Generally speaking, the Druze population have more cordial relations with Israel, in comparison to other Arabs, but the situation is more complicated in the Golan Heights. Until recently, the majority had refused the Israeli citizenship and, although this behaviour gradually changed as neighboring Syria sank into a brutal conflict, the sympathies for Syria and president Assad remain quite strong. Regular pro-Syrian demonstrations take place, while tensions were inflammed, due to Israel's intervention in Syria.

    On paper, Israel has underlined its neutrality, but on practice, the Israeli Army used to support the jihadist rebels in the south, as a useful cushion between it and the considerably wealthier and more powerful Syrian Army, Hezbollah, Revolutionary Guards and various other militias. Technically, the aid was limited to non-lethal supplies, but many controversial groups profited from this policy, including al-Qaeda affiliates, not to mention it was later revealed that money and bullets are not very pacifist. Unsurprisingly, despite Israel trying to prevent its sectarian proxies from massacring religious minorities, the Druze communities weren't very enthusiastic over these activities and, in one particular case, they almost lynched a couple of Israeli soldiers, after having disposed of an Islamist fighter transported to safety inside an ambulance. On the other hand, someone could cynically argue that many Druze are simply more interested in maintaining their ties with both Damascus and Jerusalem, while they can also exploit the current state of incertainty, as both factions are busy bribing them to their side.

    In my opinion, there is no easy answer to the dilemma of whether Golan should be Syrian or Israeli. There is no doubt that the annexation is the consequence of a military conquest, but the war was provoked by Syrian aggression (albeit Damascus had been manipulated by Cairo, in that instance). Moreover, the occupation is already more than half a century old (unless we take into consideration the brief Syrian counter-attack in the Yom Kippur War) and the demographics have already evolved in favour of Israel. I sympathise with the injustice felt by many Syrian refugees, but I am rather skeptical about negating it by creating an even greater number of Israeli refugees. Finally, from the American point of view, the recognition reinforces the Israeli-American friendship, but also harms the diplomatic credibility and sincerety of the United States. It's a bit contradictory to argue against the integration of the Crimean Peninsula to the Russian Federation, while simultaneously tolerating and rewarding a similar, but also more brutal affair, in the Middle East.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; March 26, 2019 at 05:47 AM. Reason: Format.

  2. #2
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    The whole thing is a bit of a mess. It's an occupation without a solution, as Syria refused several times to take back the Golan in return for peace. A one sided withdrawal by Israel would serve absolutely no purpose, in fact it would only harm it. And after the lesson learnt from the one sided withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, the Israeli population is weary of repeating such a mistake. Especially with Iran and Hezbollah's presence having grown on the Syrian side of the Golan heights in recent years.
    There is quite simply no partner for peace here, and it's too important of a strategic location to simply up and leave with nothing in return. It either remains forever an occupied territory, or becomes part of Israel allowing the locals to have rights and representation and the ability to vote.
    Plus it looks better on a map.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    So you're extending Israeli citizenship to everyone born in the Golan Heights, right?


  4. #4
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Everyone who lived there when it was annexed was offered citizenship, as mentioned by Abdulmecid.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    It's not about offering to people living there, you must extend citizenship to everyone born there, ever, otherwise you're putting them into non-state grey-zone, which multiple international agreements frown upon. Unless they got their Syrian citizenship approved (which the Druze in the Golan are very fond of).


  6. #6
    JP226's Avatar Suspended
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Maybe if Syria fought better they’d control the Golan heights.

  7. #7
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa
    It's not about offering to people living there, you must extend citizenship to everyone born there, ever, otherwise you're putting them into non-state grey-zone, which multiple international agreements frown upon.

    Question for you. If Israel did that, would you consider the Golan heights to be Israeli territory? no? then what's the point here?
    They all have Syrian Citizenship.


  8. #8

    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Question for you. If Israel did that, would you consider the Golan heights to be Israeli territory? no? then what's the point here?
    They all have Syrian Citizenship.
    Moot point. It's what's so controversial about the fact that Israel is annexing it and other countries recognizing it without granting citizenship to the people born there. And what is so controversial about the US, a rather powerful country, recognizing Israel's actions. Israel is rather picky. As noted, not just the people living there. But anybody born there.
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  9. #9
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    People born in the Golan aren’t entitled to citizenship.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law
    Whoever is born after the creation of the State of Israel in a place that was Israeli territory on the day of their birth, and never possessed any other citizenship, will be an Israeli citizen, if they applied in the period between their 18th and 21st birthday, with the additional condition that they were residents of Israel for five continuous years previous to their application.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    It's a bit contradictory to argue against the integration of the Crimean Peninsula to the Russian Federation, while simultaneously tolerating and rewarding a similar, but also more brutal affair, in the Middle East.
    I think Russia's annexation of Crimea isn't directly comparable to the situation in the Golan, since Russia invaded and stole the territory of a country with which they weren't at war, whereas Israel was in a defensive war with Syria when the latter lost the Golan.

    Israel gave back part of the occupied Golan, to include the main city, as you mentioned, whereas Russia's demonstrated no willingness to return any part of the Crimean Peninsula to Ukraine.

    Prior to the war, Syrian artillery and snipers located on the Golan Heights overlooked vast swathes of Israel, and often attacked Israeli civilian areas below them, making life downright intolerable; Israel thus had a security interest in ending that. By contrast, the Crimean Peninsula as part of Ukraine never posed such a threat to Russia.

    When Russia invaded Crimea, around two and a half million people suddenly found themselves governed by a different country. In comparison, when Israel seized the Golan, it was a sparsely populated rural region with only 7000 inhabitants.

    Anti-Israeli residents of the Golan are considerably more free than anti-Russians in Crimea; you mentioned that the Druze residents regularly hold anti-Israeli and pro-Syrian protests, whereas Crimean Tatars as one example have no freedom to protest Russia's invasion of their homeland. Activists and leaders of theirs are also regularly harassed, tortured and even assassinated.

  11. #11
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    To the OP. Seems like hardly a shock. Once the Trump admin was willing to alter policy on the US embassy, why not recognize the annexation of Golan. There is something to be said for not considering all boarders created whenever by whomever some kind of product of god on the Mountain. In this case Syria failed to hold its own never got it back and failed to make anyone really care. Seeing as its a broken country so not really in a position to do much, so what. Also from team trump perspective (Bolton et al) Assad is clearly a puppet of Russia and more importantly Iran so why not put a stick in his eye?

    In terms of diplomatic credibility. What is the harm? On Israel and Palestine no US president since Bill has really made a hard effort for a solution. Ending the Nuclear deal and bring in Bolton pretty much set the neo-con clock ticking for Iran. And Obama did not actually do great job with the Arab spring (not that I think anyone but the second coming of FDR might have done better certainty Team Bush or Trump would likely have muddled through even worse).

    So I dunno maybe double down on Israel but I hope we get some serious promises on tech transfer to China. One would hope the citizen status of the current residents is addressed fairly. Although if Trump can turn a blind eye the house of Saud's war in Yemen he might green light an expulsion if Netanyahu told him it would be popular with his base...

    Maybe if Trump really like headlines he should pick a side Greece or Turkey and toss a bomb out about Cyprus and recognize the independence of Iraqi Kurdistan for giggles, go on bender and declare the King of Jordan is clearly the rightful steward of Mecca and owns the West Bank (presumably sans wherever Israel wants), at that point you should have a big enough mess nobody will remember the US is not a fair arbitrator.
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  12. #12
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394
    One would hope the citizen status of the current residents is addressed fairly. Although if Trump can turn a blind eye the house of Saud's war in Yemen he might green light an expulsion if Netanyahu told him it would be popular with his base...

    The option of gaining citizenship is already available to all residents of the Golan heights. Absolutely no one is talking about an expulsion of the non Jews living there, and I doubt anyone would actually support that. I certainly wouldn't.


  13. #13

    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Of course the Golan Druze see the economic and security advantages to being part of Israel, but they also have economic and personal interests in maintaining good relations with the Syrian government. The Golan Druze are the only people the Syrian government allows to trade across the border. They sell their produce to the Druze on the other side. Both governments also allow them to marry across the border, which is important for Druze since they are only allowed to marry other Druze. Any Druze who marries a non-Druze will be banished from their community. Children from such marriages can never be considered Druze. So for Druze men, having the ability to look for wives across the border increases their minimal options (it’s the women who relocate). For these reasons, it’s in their interest to make the occasional show of solidarity with Syria, especially since such demonstrations don’t really have much effect on their relations with the Israeli government.

    Many of the oldest generation of Golan Druze probably still feel sincerely Syrian, and nearly all Golan Druze see Assad as better for the Druze community in Syria than any of the Sunni Islamist factions who are clearly a threat, but there is an increase each year in the number of young adults applying for Israeli citizenship. Which is remarkable because they don’t actually get much out of it, other than the ability to vote in national elections and the obligation to serve in the military. As residents they already receive all the other benefits of citizenship and can vote in local elections. Some say the only reason they forgo citizenship is out of respect for their elders.

    Here’s an article that goes a bit more in depth, although it’s necessarily anecdotal for the most part:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Enjoying the last days of summer earlier this month, hundreds of residents in the Golan Heights town of Majdal Shams headed to the town center for a carnival, complete with cotton candy, live music and a slow-turning chocolate shawarma log. The festivities were organized to commemorate the Muslim holiday of Id al-Adha by the local municipality, an institution that residents once disparaged as an arm of the Israeli state.

    The 25,000 or so Druze on the Golan Heights are part of a small Arabic-speaking, ethno-religious minority in the Middle East practicing a distinct offshoot of Ismaili Islam. Communities in the four villages of Majdal Shams, Buq’ata, Masadeh and Ein Qiniyye held firmly onto their Syrian identity following Israel’s annexation of the territory in 1981.

    But young Majdal Shams municipality volunteers, arranging chairs for last week’s big concert and fluent in Hebrew, weren’t shy to flaunt their bright yellow T-shirts emblazoned with the institution’s Hebrew name. Many residents say volunteers and city hall employees, living in the swath of land between Lebanon, Syria and Jordan captured by Israel in 1967, are respected today for their work to improve the community. Posing for photographs, the high-school-age crew could be mistaken for an Israeli youth group.

    The teens illustrate a larger generation gap that has emerged between young and older Druze in the Golan Heights. In these communities, many grandparents and parents who spent their formative years in Damascus now sit around the dinner table with children studying and working in the Israeli cities of Haifa, Kiryat Shmona and Tel Aviv.

    After 50 years under Israeli control and nearly seven years into Syria’s bloody civil war, does the young waiter at a Golan restaurant frequented by Jewish Israelis on Shabbat see himself as Syrian, Israeli or something in between? While many members of the older generation are defeated by today’s devastation in Syria and Israeli permanence, young people spreading their wings in Israeli society are both breathing sighs of relief and recoiling in dismay.

    Syrian flags are still flown proudly on Golan rooftops, and organizations of the community’s small civil society, like Arab Human Rights Center Al-Marsad, spend time and resources reminding the world that they remain occupied under international law. They refer to nearby Jewish communities Neve Ativ and Nimrod as “settlements,” though they bear little resemblance to their cousins in the West Bank.

    At the same time, Interior Ministry data show that a growing number of Golan Druze have adopted Israeli citizenship. Out of 26,500 residents, nearly 5,500 have applied for and received an Israeli passport since 1981. The yearly number of applicants are steadily rising, with 183 people having filed applications in 2016 compared with only five in 2000.

    Unlike Druze communities in Israel’s northern Galilee, known for nationalist pride and punching above their weight in the Israeli army, Golan communities largely refused citizenship in 1981. The majority carry residency status, paying taxes and receiving civil services, but they lack passports and must apply for visas upon every exit from Israel.

    On their Israeli ID cards, “Undefined” is written in the nationality section – an identity that has become a beloved inside joke, manifested in a popular bar on Majdal Shams’ main drag called Undefined.

    But the growing number of Israeli citizenship applicants is also reflected in outward expressions of rapport with Israel, like those of candy salesman Adham Pharhat, whose small shop in Buq’ata sells bonbons, oversized red teddy bears and jewelry in glass cases.

    “What more can I ask for? I’m in my thirties – I have security, money, social services, education. In Syria? You can forget about it,” he says, laughing. “I’m proud to be part of Israel.”

    Still, he won’t be applying for citizenship anytime soon, for a reason expressed by many: “It’s disrespectful to the older generation.”

    Some elder Golan Druze wistfully narrated their relationship with Syria through numbers: How old they were in 1967, how many years they spent in Damascus and when they last visited cousins. They consider the adoption of Israeli citizenship an insult to their history.

    “I was 10 in 1967,” says Faris, who declined to give his last name, sitting with friends in the afternoon shade beside his Majdal Shams home. “Of course I’m concerned young people don’t have a connection to Syria – or what’s left of it. It’s a sad situation we have here. The young people, they couldn’t care less.”

    Another Majdal Shams native, Dr. Salim Brake, knows this generational gap firsthand. “Young Druze are not as connected to their Syrian background,” he says. “Unlike their grandparents and even parents, they’ve never visited family in Syria; they speak Hebrew and know Israeli society well.”

    The Syrian civil war has brought these divisions even more to the fore, since some members of the younger generation perceive their grandparents’ hero, Syrian President Bashar Assad, as a murderous dictator.
    Shefaa Abu Jabal, once an anti-Assad activist known for what villagers called “opening her mouth too much” about the war in Syria, believes that, unlike their elders, young Golan Druze were thrown into a struggle to define their identity at the war’s outset.

    “The older generation is Syrian, and they know it,” she says. “But 2011 was the year my generation was forced to really ask what we think and feel about Syria. Do I want to be Syrian or Israeli? Many hardly knew Syria to begin with, or didn’t have a family connection.”
    Now living in Haifa and working at an Israeli human rights organization, Abu Jabal chooses not to judge the members of her community who have decided to embrace Israeli identity.

    “Life is different for young people now, especially the ones who have studied in Haifa and Tel Aviv,” she notes. “For Israel, the Syrian revolution was a gift. By saying, ‘Look what we give you here in Israel and look what’s happening over there in Syria,’ young people aren’t afraid to praise Israel and consider citizenship.”

    But a young Druze woman working at a Majdal Shams shop, who requested she not be identified, isn’t impressed. A student at the University of Haifa with dreams of becoming a psychologist, she chooses not to take Israeli citizenship because of her general distaste for the country, especially Israel’s treatment of its Arab citizens.

    “I have some friends who have Israeli citizenship and I sort of look down on them,” she says. “I think they’re suckers.” Her boyfriend, who owns the shop, nods in agreement in the background.

    With Israel’s announcement of local elections in Golan Druze towns for the first time next year, she can vote as a resident, but she doesn’t express much interest. And at the end of the day, Israeli citizenship doesn’t offer her anything other than a smoother security check at Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion Airport, she says.

    “It’s difficult, because to pursue my professional goals I need a country. I need to leave Majdal Shams,” she thinks aloud, “but Israel is just not my home.”

    Brake, who sometimes teaches at the University of Haifa, echoes the sentiment. “My Druze students feel a negative atmosphere around them,” he says. “Back in the Golan, my father used to tell me how much he appreciated Israeli democracy. But he would see a different country today.”

    Tall with broad shoulders and a toothy smile, Mahran works in the Golan’s acclaimed apple industry. He’s an Israeli citizen, like his father. At 31, he says he’s too old to enlist in the Israel Defense Forces, though his brother did recently. He and his wife Mona met while studying at

    Bar-Ilan University in Ramat Gan. About a year ago, they moved into their newly built house in Buq’ata and are beginning to think about kids. “Israel is not an issue for me. I want my children to grow up exactly like they would in Haifa,” he says.

    Mona is slightly more careful. “I don’t always feel welcome in Israeli society, there is definitely discrimination,” she says. “But you have to accept it. This is our only country.”

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ging-1.5453460
    Last edited by sumskilz; March 26, 2019 at 11:35 AM. Reason: broken forum nonsense
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    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  14. #14
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    The option of gaining citizenship is already available to all residents of the Golan heights. Absolutely no one is talking about an expulsion of the non Jews living there, and I doubt anyone would actually support that. I certainly wouldn't.


    That was a sort of a joke addition. But not so much if somebody made it in jest near Trump I'm not sure he would not make the tweet.

    In any case the real problem is the US has now approved military annexation and reversed decades of policy. What standing do we no have to criticize the Czar when he takes whatever bit of Ukraine he wants or Estonia back. What it Rwanda decides an Ebola ridden and lawless Eastern Congo is a threat to its national security and it assumes control nearby Congo and hunts down the hutu deadenders there with extreme prejudice and anyone who objects and of course gets the resources of the Eastern Congo (I assume shared with old friends in Uganda).
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    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394
    In any case the real problem is the US has now approved military annexation and reversed decades of policy. What standing do we no have to criticize the Czar when he takes whatever bit of Ukraine he wants or Estonia back. What it Rwanda decides an Ebola ridden and lawless Eastern Congo is a threat to its national security and it assumes control nearby Congo and hunts down the hutu deadenders there with extreme prejudice and anyone who objects and of course gets the resources of the Eastern Congo (I assume shared with old friends in Uganda).

    The major difference we have is that the Golan was seized in a defensive war, not in an offensive invasion.


  16. #16
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    The major difference we have is that the Golan was seized in a defensive war, not in an offensive invasion.


    Still semantics and lawyers. Like I said I think A well run country like Rwanda could make a could argument that chaos in Congo is overt threat. The Czar got his referendum. The US I think was better off tacitly approving of the situation that its ally was in but making a formal de facto statement. From where you are typing I sure things likely look different, for me plausible deniably seems a better move. Its not like any US party was going to add unilateral withdrawal to its party platform or stop vetoing stuff in the UN.
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    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    So are none of the flat ea... sorry, I mean Russiacollusiontruthers here going to be mad at the fact that 1) Trump is actively and very obviously interfering in the democratic elections in Israel, even going so far as being ready to throw one of the core tenants of the post-ww2 world order under the bus for it, or 2) about the fact that AIPAC is likely going to repay him in his own upcoming reelection campaign?

    Apart from this idiocy, the ramifications of this step cannot be overstated:
    No one who can be taken serious is hiding or disputing the fact that the Golan-heights are de jure Syrian territory and were annexed in the 6 days war.
    Sure, no one was doubting that Israel wasn't simply gonna hand this strategically vital territory back under any circumstances, nor was anyone going to do anything about it, but everyone tried at least on paper to stick to the rule that no foreign territory was going to be acquired through violent means as long as it could be avoided.

    Whenever the US breached international law, they at least tried to deny it. Until Trump came along. Normally I prefer honesty to fakery, but this is another step into destroying international law and the order that gave us relative peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2
    The major difference we have is that the Golan was seized in a defensive war, not in an offensive invasion.
    Good that you know your history.

    Oh wait. You don't. If you don't know who started the 6-days war, and are too lazy to google it, let me help you:
    “The thesis according to which the danger of genocide hung over us in June 1967, and according to which Israel was fighting for her very physical survival, was nothing but a bluff which was born and bred after the war,” declared Gen. Matituahu Peled, chief of logistical command during the war and one of 12 members of Israel’s General Staff, in March 1972. A year earlier, Mordechai Bentov, a member of the wartime government and one of 37 people to sign Israel’s Declaration of Independence, had made a similar admission. “This whole story about the threat of extermination was totally contrived, and then elaborated upon, a posteriori, to justify the annexation of new Arab territories,” he said in April 1971.
    Even Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, former terrorist and darling of the Israeli far right, conceded in a speech in August 1982 that “in June 1967 we had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.”
    Source: https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/...ed-with-a-lie/

  18. #18
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    There is a lot of controversy surrounding who attacked whom in the Sinai, but we are now talking about Syria, not Egypt. Syria was the country to initiate hostilities and although she fell a naive victim to Cairo's propaganda, which prompted her to bombard Israeli positions, she's still rightfully considered as the aggressor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos
    I think Russia's annexation of Crimea isn't directly comparable to the situation in the Golan, since Russia invaded and stole the territory of a country with which they weren't at war, whereas Israel was in a defensive war with Syria when the latter lost the Golan.
    I am not denying that there are differences between the two annexations, but it still sets a precedent and makes the US lose the moral high ground. Americans will focus on how defeated Syria was actually the aggressor and Russians will underline that, according to independent polls and the less independent referendum, the majority of the Crimeans prefer Moscow to Kiev. Essentially, stuff like this matters little, but the recognition will make the lifes of American diplomats and PR managers a bit more difficult than before. It's not the end of the world, of course, but these issues is why I suspect the recognition is too one-sided not to give Washington any compensation. The secrecy behind the details of the agreement is probably explained by the fact that they can taint the achievement of the Israeli government, which would subsequently lead to fewer gains in the upcoming elections. According to the rumours here, the Netanyahu administration is going to tacitly support the interests of some American investments on Israel's consumer market and primary sector, at the expense of their international competitors, but their credibility cannot be verified. It would be interesting to know if similar claims also circulate in Israel.

  19. #19
    Vanoi's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    I don't agree with it but this was bound to happen. Syria not wanting to sign a peace treaty has definitely not helped them in getting the Golan Heights.

  20. #20
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Golan Heights recognized as Israeli by US administration

    Quote Originally Posted by cookiegod
    1) Trump is actively and very obviously interfering in the democratic elections in Israel,
    Obama did too. Not that it seems to bother you much when the people who you like do it.

    No one who can be taken serious is hiding or disputing the fact that the Golan-heights are de jure Syrian territory and were annexed in the 6 days war.
    Israel did not annex the Goland heights in the 6 day war. It occupied it, offered to return it in return for peace, the offer was refused, Israel again defended it in another defensive war, the Yom Kippur war of 1973, offered to return it a couple more times, and finally decided to annex it in 1981, a good 14 years after capturing it, seeing as Syria wasn't willing to negotiate.

    Sure, no one was doubting that Israel wasn't simply gonna hand this strategically vital territory back under any circumstances,
    We were. We offered it time and again. Even gave Quneitra as a gesture of good faith. Syria refused to negotiate for peace.

    Good that you know your history.

    Oh wait. You don't. If you don't know who started the 6-days war, and are too lazy to google it, let me help you:
    Good that you know your history. Oh wait. You don't. That's the case for Egypt, not Syria. Syria was the one to attack Israel and lose. It then attacked Israel again in 1973 and failed to regain the Golan heights. The land was only annexed after the 2nd failed Syrian war of aggression. If you try to wipe out another country and fail then there are repercussions. More so if you do it twice.
    Regardless of the narrative surrounding the attack on Egypt, Egyptian acts of aggression being responsible for the breakout of the war are undeniable. They broke the peace treaty that was signed stating that the Sinai be demilitarised and kicked out the UN forces stationed there. Routinely talked about how they are going to wipe Israel off of the face of the earth, and blocked the straits of Tiran, an unlawful act of aggression under the terms signed in return for Israel's withdrawal from Sinai in previous years. Israel had stated multiple times before that that blocking the strait would be considered an act of war in accordance with the treaty.

    Quote Originally Posted by abdulmecid
    Russians will underline that, according to independent polls and the less independent referendum, the majority of the Crimeans prefer Moscow to Kiev.
    Thing is, Russia had no right to conduct a referendum in a foreign country.


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