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Are evil factions too weak in 3.0? - Page 2
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Thread: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    Something i also observed generally. All campaigns and battles on VH, played as Erebor (200+turns), Orcs of Gundabad (around 100), Dale (200+), Dorwinion (150 or so), Imladris(around 100-120), Khazad-dum(150 or so), Isenguard (250+), More specifically

    - Dol Guldur does not anymore dominate in the area, Vale of Anduin seems to pose a strong threat now . Observed this when playing as Erebor, Isenguard and Dorwinion

    - Orcs of Gundabad feel like pushovers. When i played as Erebor i just steamrolled them, early on i cockblocked them by just capturing Onazanar in turn 5-6 when i simply gathered all the army i could in that time and they kept sending weak armies to assault it afterwards. At some point they captured the rebel castle (i think it is a castle) underneath Onazanar that has quite a large rebel army and 2 turns later i captured it since the gundabad army there was really weakened. Their tactic was the same again with the difference that they send weak forces in both map chokepoints. It was a matter of building up some mines so i could support 2 stacks and managed to conquer their capital of mount Gundabad 10 or so turns before even the barracks event. Also i dont know why but i didnt encounter their "last doomstack script". Their campaign seems to come to an end around turn 90 in all other cases i played with different factions.

    -Mordor doesnt dominate as easily as it did in 2.2, Gondor actually puts up a huge fight, there were even some campaigns i was getting "Black gate, minas morgul and cirith ungul" besieged messages before barracks event

    -Dol Amroth seems to repel both Ar-adunaim and Harad tribes with ease in the majority of the campaigns i've played so far. Khand choosing good made these cases come even earlier.

    -Rhun isnt the powerhouse it was in 2.2 or at least it takes them much more time to conquer the same land as they did before. Its the only one from evil factions i actually like that they got "weaker" cause they were over the top before. If Khand chooses good it usually helps immensely AI dorwinion to keep and even expand their lands temporarily at least before being overwhelmed as usual, and definitely helped me both with my dale and dorwinion campaigns.

    -Isenguard is actually around the same powerlevel, though i can definitely see them struggle more with rohan early on nowdays.

    -Goblins of Moria seem more powerful but for some reason struggle with the khazad-dum dwarves. In my Erebor campaign i even stopped expanding as soon as i conquered gundabad and just watched how things would go while improving my cities. Put all my spies around the Khazad-dum area so when it was conqured i could go in and take it withouting pissing of good nations and allies. GoM actually started pushing Vale of Anduin really hard and actually gained a lot of their cities, leaving them with 2 that neither Dol Guldur nor GoM could seemed to be able to conquer, and dol guldur soon began losing badly when the wood elves and dale pushed into their land. But the dwarves were something else. I could clearly see at least 5-6 full goblin stacks, near khazad-dum and 1 and a half stack of dwarves with nothing really good except maybe 5-6 units of elites including their generals/faction leader/heir. Instead of simply taking by sieging the dwarven city they where sieging for one turn and then leaving siege not even assaulting most of the time. The goblins even humiliated Lothlorien leaving them only their capital but they still couldnt take down the dwarves. Only after this kept repeating for 50+ turns i actually took part on the war and wiped out both GoM and Khazad-dum and lothloried and anduin.

    -Angmar plays somewhat the same as i remember in 2.2 they dominate early on but at some point they simply lose to the dwarves.

    -Enedwaith and Dunlendings feel a bit weaker too, but i dont believe its their fault, rather its the Shire that got better. In my Isenguard campaign Breeland actually reached a point where it was bordering me and i didnt expand towards them. They dominated both enedwaith and dunlending. In my Erebor campaign they where pushing angmar back at turn 100 or so.


    Im starting an evil campaign tonight, Harad, Mordor or Rhun

  2. #22

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    the northern evil factions are always the sore losers i find. the elven generals and the dwarven armies are auto-resolve kings.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    Quote Originally Posted by bob124 View Post
    I've played 3 games on 3.0 so far and have enjoyed each one. However, I've noticed a trend that in all 3 games the evil factions are either fought to a stalemate or crushed by the good factions. Here are some observations I've made so far, I'm curious to see if anyone else has experienced the same.

    - In all 3 games the Variags have sided with the Istari. Not sure if the chances of that happening were buffed or it's just random luck on my part but it makes things even harder for the evil factions.

    - Gondor and Dol Amroth have fought Mordor and friends to a stalemate in every game so far. This is actually pretty well balanced and leads to some good action in the South as they will sometimes lose provinces (Gondor even lost Minas Tirith in one game but took it back a couple turns later) but always seem to fight their way back. While this isn't very lore-friendly of course I think it makes for a more interesting game rather than knowing that Gondor will be overrun by turn 100 or so as always seemed to happen previously.

    - In the North however it's a different story. The Goblins of Moria, Angmar, and Gundabad always seem to be overrun and can't put up much of a fight past turn 100-120 or so. In one game I played as the Northern Dunedain and did almost nothing against Angmar and they were still crushed by the Dwarves and Imladris. The GoM seem to be particularly weak and just can't handle Khazad-dum. This really puts and damper on things later in the game as it just ends up with good factions doing nothing because they're surrounded by allies or fighting each other.

    - I don't know what's up with Dol Guldur but they're little more than a speed bump. In all 3 games they were steamrolled or reduced to a rump state well before turn 100.

    - The Easterlings are no longer a steamroller themselves which is a good thing, they have a far more difficult time against Dorwinion and take much longer to push them back.

    - Mordor, Harad, and Ar-Adunaim can never seem to wipe Khand out completely after they side with the Istari, allowing Khand to slowly recover and then break the stalemate they have with Gondor and push the good factions to victory.

    Hopefully these observations are helpful. I personally would like to see if others are experiencing the same things and if so a buff to the northern evil factions and especially Dol Goldur may be helpful to keep things interesting.
    WUUT??
    Gondor isnt destroyed at turn 100?
    I luv it Now i can conquer al the nort with aragorn and then reunite

  4. #24

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    Its sucks that Angmar gets this cool overhaul but it could not go against the dwarves at all. I guess there will always be a couple of factions that will get stomped on, its hard to have everything perfectly balanced but I just wish the outcome was not the same for every playthrough for Angmar. Once those dwarves get rolling, its only a matter of time before the dwarves wipe them out.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    The auto-resolve formula is very heavily biased towards hitpoints and armour, meaning factions such as Dol Amroth, the Dwarves and the High Elves tend to perform very well in auto-resolve. Harad has low armour values but high attack, which can be well utilised by the player, but does little for AI performance. Angmar too has the short end of the stick, it also doesn't help that they are heavily isolated on their Western front. Often it's Angmar vs. Dunedain, Ered Luin, Lindon, Bree and Imladris.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    Back in the last version you could sort of hack the AI to make some factions (Dwarfs of EL were a striking example) very passive / turtle like.

    There was a 'locked' (i think) trait, basically removed movement points from AI characters. for some factions; EL, both flavors of wood elf, mordor (cant recall everyone it worked with) this basically made the AI turtle in their settlements.

    Seemed that rather than just recruiting and sending units off the war, when units were recruited into a settlement with a 'locked' character, they'd just sit there with that character, as though they were locked too. with a bit of faffing with the kings purse, you could end up with EL not stomping angmar in the north, the black gate or minas morgul being full stacks and scary etc.

    I've no idea if this will work in the new version, and it didn't work with every faction last time round, but if EL (for instance) are a problem, it could be worth a try.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    Dunland needed the nerf, IMHO. They almost always expanded into Bree and poured into Rohan if Isengard got beaten back to Orthanc (if they allied with Enedwaith). Enedwaith, in my experience, was a bit of a 50/50 shot of expanding into a formidable faction or getting destroyed because they went to war with anybody who shared a border. In V3 it seems like the AI has found a solid middle ground.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    Hopefully, with the introduction of the Ered Luin ring script, Angmar might hold on much longer.

    The basic premise being there will (likely) be a 50/50 chance Ered Luin might betray all of Eriador and declare war on them all. That will of course turn the attention of the main good nations and give Angmar a chance to break the deadlock.

    Other alternatives could of course be to give AI Angmar some free units or maybe a larger auto-expansion role.

    The scales are of course difficult to balance and too much in one direction and suddenly Angmar are winning every time.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    Will they still be at war with Angmar?

  10. #30

    Default Re: Are evil factions too weak in 3.0?

    High Elves coming back and an Elf-Dwarf war around Ered Luin? I'm loving the First Age throwbacks for this update.

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