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Thread: It just went down in New Zealand

  1. #121
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It seems as though this murderous scum, who appeals to crusade mentality (in my view a form of Jihad), Fascism and 4chan meme culture was playing to a very specific on line audience, given he live streamed the event.

    Murderous violence is not an intrinsic part of immigration, as my country and New Zealand have repeatedly proved. The onus is on anyone making the claim to prove it so.
    Tarrant addresses this directly in his manifesto. If your race and culture is snuffed out as the end result of mass migration does it matter if the immigrants were violent or not? Is he right about the birthrates and stuff? And he certainly employed memes, but his audience is everyone. This guy is not dumb, meming and alluding to pewdiepie and all that are incredibly smart ways to play the media like a fiddle and disseminate his message. It wasn't just to make an epic thread on 8chan and get a lot of (you)s.

  2. #122
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The bit where you rhetorically asked "was he wrong" reads like flaming. The guy shot women in the back as part of a self proclaimed "crusade", not sure whats unclear about that being wrong. Given its a hot topic, and no time to be cryptic or fly close to the wind on ToS, would you care to expand on the question, maybe supply an answer? Getting all shirty and saying "maybe read more" is a cop out, lets clear this up because its a hot topic and no time for arcane point making.
    I was referring to Fraser Anning's statement that there was a connection between Muslim immigration and violence. I've been making the point large migrations cause stress on societies.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; March 15, 2019 at 06:24 PM.
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  3. #123

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Yes but we are not really relevant, nor we are following the rest of Europe trend, in recent years, on several areas i might add. At least for now. ( suppose we have to thank the Communist party to be a lid for that kind of sentiment here in Portugal ).
    If we had decent public finances and a culture of investing money (as opposed to a culture of spending/debt/cumulatively taxing money) we could build a little Utopia here.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  4. #124

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduet View Post
    Tarrant addresses this directly in his manifesto. If your race and culture is snuffed out as the end result of mass migration does it matter if the immigrants were violent or not? Is he right about the birthrates and stuff? And he certainly employed memes, but his audience is everyone. This guy is not dumb, meming and alluding to pewdiepie and all that are incredibly smart ways to play the media like a fiddle and disseminate his message. It wasn't just to make an epic thread on 8chan and get a lot of (you)s.
    Its dumb because its perpetuating the idea that culture and ethnicity are concrete things that persist over time and that they will always inevitably create conflict between human beings who possess different before mentioned items.

    This is not inevitable if we understand the nature of culture and ethnicity/race as being constructs of the human mind that are forever in flux and undefined. Culture is always changing and the culture of New Zealand in 1985 had all but been replaced by what it is now. Sure there is some continuity, but just as French culture of the 1700's is unrecognizable to French culture today, eventually the culture of New Zealand of today will not be recognizable in the future . You can't protect it, and it will evolve whether the population is "homogeneous" or not.

    That's why it doesn't make sense to fear Muslims immigrating into a country.There is no Islamic culture that can dominate because it doesn't exist as a united entity. It isn't a consistent thing and it has evolved into something unrecognizable from where it was 1000 years ago. Ask yourself a couple questions about whether Islam can be considered a coherent ideology. Do all Muslim dominated countries abide by the same laws and ethics? Do they all agree on how society should be organized and run? Do we assume that every Muslim interprets their holy book the same way, or that they actually are unable to adapt it over time? Are they all interested in forcing their religion onto others and abstain from taking on ideas from other societies?


    Now looking at race. Can we really define what race or ethnicity is? Are there a series of check boxes that we can check off so that we can categorize human beings in objectively coherent ways? What does it mean to be white? Can you even define that? Are there inherent biological characteristics that are unique to whites that can never be obtained by other races? Should they be preserved? By what ethical basis would you use to justify this?

    There was a time in human history where we were all brown skinned and where we could not conceptualize the idea of a nation or an ethnicity. If we get to this point through peaceful means and integration over time it doesn't mean we lost any sense of who we truly are. It just means there will be less superficial characteristics divide us arbitrarily. Recognizing the social construction of these things are crucial in allowing us to come them in the future and it will enable us to prevent our own destruction before it's too late.
    Last edited by ♔The Black Knight♔; March 15, 2019 at 10:24 PM.

  5. #125

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Didn’t read the book did you? Explaining the basic facts of world history is something I do for My chilrden.

    I’ve said quite a bit on this thread, you should try to rebut it instead of making useless posts. You seem to be objecting to the notion that the Balkans were a dangerous mix of ethinic and religious partisanship. That is in fact the position of every reputable commentator i can think of, but you go ahead and explain your objection.
    Nothing I said can be construed to mean that I object to ethnic conflicts in the Balkans. I didn't even address such a thing, and I didn't even implied an objection. You seem to be confusing your own lack of success in articulation of a point with a non-existent objection. Yes, you've said quite a bit on this thread, but none of that explained how mass immigration has a link to far right terrorism.
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #126

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    So let me get it straight.

    When muslims are terrorists it's because islam is inherently evil

    When christians are terrorists is justifiable and inevitable and the victims own fault for imigrating to a white nation?

  7. #127

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    So let me get it straight.

    When muslims are terrorists it's because islam is inherently evil

    When christians are terrorists is justifiable and inevitable and the victims own fault for imigrating to a white nation?
    He identified as an Eco-Fascist, rather than a Christian.
    Most of West is Secular/Atheist by now.

    His manifesto was obsessed about race and birthrates of european ethnicity.

    The fact that Christ created a religion that is not bound by ethnicity, and where you are suposed to get converts outside your tribe/ethnicity, was one of the reasons for Him to be rejected by the Old Ecclesiastical Class of Pre-Talmudic Judaism.

    That said class wanted a strong military leader to overthrow Roman Occupation instead.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  8. #128
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    So let me get it straight.

    When muslims are terrorists it's because islam is inherently evil

    When christians are terrorists is justifiable and inevitable and the victims own fault for imigrating to a white nation?
    Tarrant isn’t Christian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  9. #129

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Tarrant isn’t Christian
    Yet he referenced Pope Urban in the manifeso....

  10. #130

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    Yet he referenced Pope Urban in the manifeso....
    Pope Urban II Papal bull has been anulled by following Popes and became more or less redundant since Lepanto. It does not have the same Geostrategic settings (in times of Urban II Christians were not allowed Pilgrimage nor to pray in Holy Land sites and often ended up killed if they attempted such). Today there are no such barriers.

    A serious Catholic wouldn't just ignore Pope Francis in such a convenient-to-his-views way, some disagreement is allowed but only in exchange of extra above average devotion like cases of SSPX. (if not for their serious display of faith, the whole society would've been excommunicated long ago probably).

    Plus even the culprit comes from a Protestant country, Protestantism being a movement which more or less consider proudly consider Papacy as an Evil thing.
    Last edited by fkizz; March 16, 2019 at 05:35 AM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  11. #131

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Reading his manifesto I'm struck by the sheer hypocrisy considering what his "european" australian people did to the natives.

  12. #132

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Is he wrong though? It seems to me that muslim immigration is and will fundamentally change society is undeniable. And it is certainly fair to assume that a sizable proportion the natives will think that change is and will be for the worse. Given that one would try to take action against this change.

    Immigration is very hard on society. I would remind everyone in Total War games one problem you face as a player is integrating conquered people into your empire and changing their culture to yours. In the game its just a mathematical calculation that changes over time. What do you think that looks in real though? It looks like Christchurch, Wounded Knee and thousands of massacres throughout history.
    So Mr. South Carolina, how many muslims have you met?

    There's plenty here in Ontario and they're all fine, normal canadians. And before you say it, I was born in Texas. I'm not a bleeding heart librul commie sjw blah blah whatever

    I also don't get my knowledge of what societies are like from TW games and wikipedia.

    e: lol just got to your comment about Ilhan Omar. Lol guess the f what. I'm also a jew. Israel hardons and accusations of anti-semitism is a gentile thing. Jews don't want any part of your there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    If you think that was peaceful, then what happened in New Zealand is peaceful too. The story of immigration to the USA was and is an ongoing brawl.



    The Balkans are what happens when social minority is too large within a single polity. The Balkans happened because the Ottomans oppressed everyone, and when they left the people left behind could form effective governments because of their competing expectations on what that government should be.

    The vogue today is to try to build a multicultural society. If "culture" means anything beyond food and music, it means fundamentally different expectations of the functions of government. Therefore to be multicultural is be different fundamental expectations on what government should be. I ask you what do you think happens when a single country cannot agree on what its government should be?
    Ok. Give us your rundown on what countries, cultures and religions make up the Balkans, as well as how that has changed since, say, 1000AD, when the cultural murder started, and why.

    gonna guess you can't because all you know is "balkan clay nationalist dumb remove kebab" internet memes and 1990s footage of bombs going off and a healthy dose of expert strategy game experience
    Last edited by L'Afrique; March 16, 2019 at 07:12 AM. Reason: dumb posts from bad poster

  13. #133
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    Yet he referenced Pope Urban in the manifeso....
    How does that make him Christian.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  14. #134
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    I was referring to Fraser Anning's statement that there was a connection between Muslim immigration and violence. I've been making the point large migrations cause stress on societies.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    Anning is an arsewipe troll, elected through a stupid loophole with a primary vote of 19 (thats 19 people chose him as their candidate), and our peculiar preference system let him sneak in like a rat. He's repeatedly trolled the Parliament, his maiden speech deliberately included the term "final solution" and other flames and tolls, as well as a lot of fake crap about all muslims being on welfare, and specifically praising racism and an imagined harmonious past "before Gramsci and the cultural Marxists took over". He also repeatedly praised the most corrupt state premier the country has ever known. He spends his days attending small extremist right wing rallies and getting into brawls with teenagers, while the clock ticks down on his short political career.

    He's a low dog with a track record of pernicious trolling, you'd want to get several sober opinions before you took anything this bastard says as truth, even if it was the time of day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    How does that make him Christian.
    It doesn't.

    Like a lot of scum on the child porn image-sharing site 4Chan he tries to clothe his rabid bigotry in scraps of half understood memes masquerading as history.
    A great deal of his manifesto seems to address that specific audience, this is a tool who is looking for applause from men who to images of children being raped. He's a very long way from being a crusader or any sort of Christian.
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  15. #135

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    There is a lot of obscurantism here about this criminal's personal beliefs.

    He is Christian in so far as countless online anti-Islam types (here included) are Christian. That is to say a proponent of the usual image board memes about Deus Vault, Turk roaches, remove kebab, Defend Europa, Replacement Theory, See you in Valhalla etc. A standard mixture of a very pagan ( and American) brand of white nationalism blended with an alt-right "Christian" worldview. Throw in his standard western liberal complaints towards Muslims being homophobic, with an obvious liking for Israel and you have your average Breitbart reader....

    His alleged eco-fascism is also suspect since he has nothing but praise for China.
    Last edited by The Gurkhan; March 16, 2019 at 06:40 AM.

  16. #136
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    So let me get it straight.

    When muslims are terrorists it's because islam is inherently evil

    When christians are terrorists is justifiable and inevitable and the victims own fault for imigrating to a white nation?
    I can see where you're 'coming from'. In the first case, the beliefs are blamed; in the second case, the victims are blamed. This doesn't seem consistent.

    I don't know whether he was a Christian or not. He does seem to be a far-right extremist, his manifesto was described as a "Who’s Who of white supremacist killers" and he seems to have identified himself as such:

    He wore a patch with an emblem used by numerous neo-Nazi groups across the world, including in Australia. Scrawled on his rifle was a white nationalist credo popularized by the American domestic terrorist and neo-Nazi David Lane. On his flak jacket was a symbol commonly used by the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian neo-Nazi paramilitary organization.- New York Times
    Because of that, I'd word the comparison like this:

    When an Islamic extremist is a terrorist, some people say that the Islam is to blame

    When a far-right extremist is a terrorist, some people seem to want to blame the victims or the government, not the extremist beliefs

  17. #137

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.

    Anning is an arsewipe troll, elected through a stupid loophole with a primary vote of 19 (thats 19 people chose him as their candidate), and our peculiar preference system let him sneak in like a rat. He's repeatedly trolled the Parliament, his maiden speech deliberately included the term "final solution" and other flames and tolls, as well as a lot of fake crap about all muslims being on welfare, and specifically praising racism and an imagined harmonious past "before Gramsci and the cultural Marxists took over". He also repeatedly praised the most corrupt state premier the country has ever known. He spends his days attending small extremist right wing rallies and getting into brawls with teenagers, while the clock ticks down on his short political career.

    He's a low dog with a track record of pernicious trolling, you'd want to get several sober opinions before you took anything this bastard says as truth, even if it was the time of day.


    It doesn't.

    Like a lot of scum on the child porn image-sharing site 4Chan he tries to clothe his rabid bigotry in scraps of half understood memes masquerading as history.
    A great deal of his manifesto seems to address that specific audience, this is a tool who is looking for applause from men who to images of children being raped. He's a very long way from being a crusader or any sort of Christian.
    I read his manifesto, it's odd. Reads like a copy-pasted thing he downloaded off the net and just filled in the questions.

    The main thing is the scumbag will be forgotten about in a few news cycles just like breivik

  18. #138

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    I can see where you're 'coming from'. In the first case, the beliefs are blamed; in the second case, the victims are blamed. This doesn't seem consistent.
    I don't know whether he was a Christian or not. He does seem to be a far-right extremist, his manifesto was described as a "Who’s Who of white supremacist killers" and he seems to have identified himself as such:
    Because of that, I'd word the comparison like this:
    When an Islamic extremist is a terrorist, some people say that the Islam is to blame
    When a far-right extremist is a terrorist, some people seem to want to blame the victims or the government, not the extremist beliefs
    The problem there is that any Muslim terrorist is regarded as an Islamist terrorist. 9/11, I guess, was the start of it all. A lot of sectarian/political/oppressive action is jumbled up under Islamic terrorism. That's why people raise the issue of when a Christian commits a terror act its dissected to bits to only label the political part.
    The Armenian Issue

  19. #139

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    Any faction fighting vastly superior military force loves terrorism. There is a reason the IRA didn't form up in battalions and go toe to toe with the British army in a traditional military engagement, they would of lost.

    The Arabs tried it with Israel, got their arse handed to them and then resorted to terrorism. The israelis did it aswell, look up the King David hotel bombing.

    People are not stupid, if you can not fight toe to toe with a superior military force, you do it by terror tactics. We call them terrorists, partisans, guerillas depending on which side you are on.
    Oh well then that justifies it. If you cant fight your enemy go after their civilians as priority targets. Perfectly reasonable in XXI century.

    Yet he referenced Pope Urban in the manifeso....
    Just like he referenced quite a few popular memes.... even Pewdiepie.
    I dont think he did it in the name of Christ. His reasons are quite clear.

    The problem there is that any Muslim terrorist is regarded as an Islamist terrorist. 9/11, I guess, was the start of it all. A lot of sectarian/political/oppressive action is jumbled up under Islamic terrorism. That's why people raise the issue of when a Christian commits a terror act its dissected to bits to only label the political part.
    It doesn't seem in this case he was religiously motivated though.

    You create a sink hole misery like Gaza and you can't be too surprised to get terrorism.
    You cant be surprised by the far right rising today as well. When you factor all elements in.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; March 16, 2019 at 08:33 AM.

  20. #140

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Oh well then that justifies it. If you cant fight your enemy go after their civilians as priority targets. Perfectly reasonable in XXI century.

    You think morality has anything to do with it? It's war, nobody gives a flying about right or wrong, just about survival and winning. None of our "civilised" western nations would be any different. People forget the IRA and Basque seperatists these days.

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