It just went down in New Zealand

[TheLeft]

Is he wrong though?

Errr... yes. He's wrong. The guy just murdered 49 people in cold blood and used some racist word salad hyper-bollocks to try and justify himself.

Yes he's wrong.

It seems to me that muslim immigration is and will fundamentally change society is undeniable. And it is certainly fair to assume that a sizable proportion the natives will think that change is and will be for the worse. Given that one would try to take action against this change.

How is Muslim immigration going to change your life in the slightest? Really?

Are you going to be forcibly converted to Islam? No. Are you going to be compelled to visit a Mosque every Friday? No. Is booze going to be banned in the near future? No. Is your girlfriend/wife going to be forced to wear a Hijab? No. Are your children going to be sold into sexual slavery by ISIS? No.

You need to be careful because from the tone of your post it sounds like you are coming awfully close to trying to justify a terrorist's mass-murder.

[Big War Bird]

Yes he's wrong.

Asserting something doesn't make it true

Are you going to be forcibly converted to Islam? No. Are you going to be compelled to visit a Mosque every Friday? No. Is booze going to be banned in the near future? No. Is your girlfriend/wife going to be forced to wear a Hijab? No. Are your children going to be sold into sexual slavery by ISIS? No.

Under the right circumstances, the answer to all of those questions is "Yes." There are great swathes of the Earth in which there was no Islam, and now there is, and all of those things you mentioned are reality to greater of lesser extent.

You need to be careful because from the tone of your post it sounds like you are coming awfully close to trying to justify a terrorist's mass-murder

Its called sociology. And I don't care what you think about my tone. I don't live in a country with thought police.

[Bethrezen]

You need to be careful because from the tone of your post it sounds like you are coming awfully close to trying to justify a terrorist's mass-murder.

It's how radicalisation probably looks like. First with trolling and memes, then starting to justify extremist attacks, then doing them themselves.

[Aexodus]

9/11 happened because Al Quaeda didn’t like Saudi Arabia being friendly with America. That is not meant to be a justification, just a reason. The same is true for what BWB says.

[Bethrezen]

9/11 happened because Al Quaeda didn’t like Saudi Arabia being friendly with America. That is not meant to be a justification, just a reason. The same is true for what BWB says.

The difference between your statement and his is "Is he wrong though?"

[Aexodus]

Does mass immigration have a link to far right terrorism? Yes.

[PointOfViewGun]

Does mass immigration have a link to far right terrorism? Yes.

How?

[Big War Bird]

How?

Evidently it ruffles their feathers. With that out of the way, the next question is "why."

[TheLeft]

Asserting something doesn't make it true

So the slaughter of 49 innocents is OK because they were Muslims? Wow.

Under the right circumstances, the answer to all of those questions is "Yes." There are great swathes of the Earth in which there was no Islam, and now there is, and all of those things you mentioned are reality to greater of lesser extent.

And what miraculous circumstances are they? What would have to happen before South Carolina becomes an Islamic Fundamentalist state?

I can flat out guarantee you whatever fiction you dream up will never happen. I'm even willing to bet you £50 of actual money that this won't ever happen in any of our lifetimes.

Its called sociology. And I don't care what you think about my tone. I don't live in a country with thought police.

TWC has rules about posters glorifying an actual mass murder. Or does that come under 'thought police' too?

[acci_dent]

Asserting something doesn't make it true



Under the right circumstances, the answer to all of those questions is "Yes." There are great swathes of the Earth in which there was no Islam, and now there is, and all of those things you mentioned are reality to greater of lesser extent.



Its called sociology. And I don't care what you think about my tone. I don't live in a country with thought police.

and under the current circumstances the answers to all those questions is certainly "no". you are using hypotheticals to attempt to justify the murder of dozens of people, including children.

the muslim population in new zealand is < 2%. two percent! they're not 'fundamentally changing society' nor do the vast majority of them want to. saying this attack is a reasonable or expected response to such a minute change in demographics is monstrous.

immigration isn't the problem. people on the right treating immigration like an invasion is the problem.

[PointOfViewGun]

Evidently it ruffles their feathers. With that out of the way, the next question is "why."

Care to put that in some intellectual arguments?

[Stario]

I recall smug authoritarian gun-grabber statists describing NZ and Australia as beacons of gun control and safety. Seems they were wrong and gun control is useless when it comes to psychos.

I can't speak about NZ's gun controls (in hindsight not very effective as demonstrated), but Australia's gun controls are top notch; probably why this Aussie choose to carry out his attack in another country.
I think Australia's top-notch gun controls might have just prevented a mass shooting on its own soil.
Not a single mass shooting in Australia since mid 90's when gun control laws were first tightened following Port Arthur mass-shooting.

[Knight of Heaven]

immigration isn't the problem. people on the right treating immigration like an invasion is the problem.

One cannot happen without the other. In Europe no doubt there is a relation between mass migration ( the biggest since WWII), and the rise of the far right. Other factors such as Muslim terrorism, and the aftermath of the economic crisis, are relevant too.
As for why it happened in NZ, we do live in a global world today...

Those are sociological reasons. Not moral justifications as you and "TheLeft" are trying to imply.

[Big War Bird]

So the slaughter of 49 innocents is OK because they were Muslims? Wow.

You ability to misunderstand may surpass a certain numbered weasel, congratulations.

And what miraculous circumstances are they? What would have to happen before South Carolina becomes an Islamic Fundamentalist state?

Much would have to happen. A great deal less would have to happen in other parts of the world. Was it just last week that in a British city Muslim parents and students ran an gay teacher out of his job for instructing the students on LGBT issues?

I can flat out guarantee you whatever fiction you dream up will never happen.

Tell me more Nostradamus about what can't happen. I'm sure in 1940 few people could imagine a black US president or a Muslim may or London.

I'm even willing to bet you £50 of actual money that this won't ever happen in any of our lifetimes.

I predict immigration without concerted integration efforts will lead to social strife.

TWC has rules about posters glorifying an actual mass murder. Or does that come under 'thought police' too?

Go ahead and report me to the moderators if you think I'm breaking the rules.

Care to put that in some intellectual arguments?

The Balkans. There is a reason it is a by word for social strife. You have/had multiple ethnicity and religions sharing countries. but unable to It was just about 25 years the Balkans erupted in because these different cultures and religions could not reconcile the differing political and social expectations of their cultural and religious differences.

[Diocle]

ASK YOURSELF, WHAT WOULD POPE URBAN II DO?

The only thing I found in some way interesting in his frantic message, was the quote of Odo of Châtillon, a gigantic and very complex character at the dawn of European medieval civilization.

[Ludicus]

Far-right ideology detailed in Christchurch shooting 'manifesto' | World
Fuelled by a toxic, alt-right echo chamber, Christchurch shooter's
Christchurch shooter Brenton Tarrant supported Trump | Daily Mail ...

Excerpts, Key points.

- The 74-page document, called The Great Replacement, consists of a rant about white genocide.

-The origins of my language is European, my culture is European, my political beliefs are European, my philosophical beliefs are European, my identity is European and, most importantly, my blood is European,” it says.

-He describes himself as an ethno nationalist and a fascist.

-The tweets included links to online articles about birth rates among Muslim and non-Muslim populations, including a January 10 Daily Mail article stating that birth rates for white women in the US had fallen relative to that of Hispanic American women.

-photos showed ammunition clips on which had been written "Here's your migration compact" - referring to the UN's Global Compact for Migration - and "Vienna 1683" - referring to the Ottoman siege repelled from the walls of Vienna.

-"With enough pressure the left wing within the United States will seek to abolish the second amendment, and the right wing within the U.S. will see this as an attack on their very freedom and liberty".

-"This attempted abolishment (sic) of rights by the left will result in a dramatic polarization of the people in the United States and eventually a fracturing of the US along cultural and racial lines."

---

This is not the first time we have heard -even here- these kinds of racist/white supremacist accusations and hate comments.

A further note: when a President of the US inspires terrorists - there is a long list, Trump-Inspired Attackers- he should resign.

[acci_dent]

One cannot happen without the other.

immigration can absolutely happen without scaremongering by politicians and media about it being an invasion. peaceful migration has existed over the entire course of human history

In Europe no doubt there is a relation between mass migration ( the biggest since WWII), and the rise of the far right. Other factors such as Muslim terrorism, and the aftermath of the economic crisis, are relevant too.
As for why it happened in NZ, we do live in a global world today...

Those are sociological reasons. Not moral justifications as you and "TheLeft" are trying to imply.

now we're getting somewhere

[TheLeft]

Much would have to happen. A great deal less would have to happen in other parts of the world. Was it just last week that in a British city Muslim parents and students ran an gay teacher out of his job for instructing the students on LGBT issues?

No. I've not heard about that. I've searched for it but couldn't find any evidence of that at all. On the contrary, I did find an article about a gay teacher who was threatened over LGBT lessons is to receive an award.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...-a8788626.html

Perhaps you could post the source of this (dubious) claim?

Tell me more Nostradamus about what can't happen. I'm sure in 1940 few people could imagine a black US president or a Muslim may or London.

After centuries of racists persecuting the Afro-American people, a black president was always likely to happen once full civil rights had been achieved. It's the same pushback that we're seeing now with angry racists voting in a white-supremacist friendly president in Trump as a response to Obama.

Muslim May or London? What on earth are you talking about? If you honestly think Theresa May is a Muslim, then I really can't help you. And London has always been one of the most cosmopolitan cities on Earth. We actually prefer it that way.

I predict immigration will lead to social strife.

Absolutely, I predict more angry, deluded, far-right incels will seethe with rage at "Der Ebil Mooslims and their Muslamic ray guns".

[Vanoi]

I predict immigration without concerted integration efforts will lead to social strife.

How do you integrate them to make it so there is no social strife? Being a Muslim alone in America can get you hated no matter how patriotic and American you are. Its certainly not going to matter to a white supremacists. They'll hate you no matter what.

I get your point though. Clash of cultures causing strife. Integration helps but certainly is not the answer to this problem or even this situation. No one is forcing you to shoot up a mosque.

[Big War Bird]

peaceful migration has existed over the entire course of human history

As I sit here I can't think of any large migration of one people to an already inhabited land that can be characterized as more peaceful than say, muslim immigration to New Zealand.

How do you integrate them to make it so there is no social strife? Being a Muslim alone in America can get you hated no matter how patriotic and American you are. Its certainly not going to matter to a white supremacists. They'll hate you no matter what.

The same used to be said for Catholics. Some people say it about Jews (looking at Ilhan Omar). There is always going to be some "othering" going on.