It just went down in New Zealand

[Vanoi]

LOL, no they don't.

I live next to a black guy, two gay neighbors, a German who fought for Germany in WW2 down the street, and an Indian couple who moved in not too long ago. We haven't killed each other.
My country isn't experiencing constant massacres and murders of people due to different races and cultures either. So take that somewhere else.

[Prodromos]

No its not. Muslims and Islam again is not forcing people to attack and massacre Muslims. Stop taking the responsibility out of the hands of the terrorist. They don't get to have excuses or justifications for murdering innocent people.

I'm just saying how things are, not endorsing or condemning anything. This is far beyond Christchurch. The government exists for the benefit of the people, and this is an issue that matters a lot to millions of people. The people decide what their problems are, and political leaders have to find solutions to them. If liberal democratic leaders are unwilling or unable to address the people's concerns, the people will appoint illiberal leaders to solve their problems. It's that simple. We're already seeing a rapid rise in left-wing and right-wing populist parties, which emphasize helping the ingroup and demonizing the outgroup, and you can be sure that they don't consider Muslims as part of their ingroup. These parties are pretty tame compared to what's coming if Islam's growth isn't stopped soon.

Ignoring this reality won't make it go away. The reality is that tens, or hundreds, of millions of Europeans, whether right or wrong, believe that an Islamic Europe is completely unacceptable, and this a non-negotiable demand. There is a relatively peaceful way of meeting their demands and a not-so-peaceful way. Everyone will have to choose whether to side with these people or fight them. Either way, there is going to be a fight, whether against "native" Europeans or against Muslims.

[Alwyn]

Yep any day now Canada is going to fall into civil war.

indeed!

I live next to a black guy, two gay neighbors, a German who fought for Germany in WW2 down the street, and an Indian couple who moved in not too long ago. We haven't killed each other.

Amazingly, in the quite varied neighbourhood where I live, we aren't killing each other either!

[ioannis76]

My country isn't experiencing constant massacres and murders of people due to different races and cultures either.

No? Aren't there race-defined gangs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison..._United_States
Why do those people band together according to race? I mean, if they are professional criminals, it really doesn't make sense, why accept one person in the gang based on race, and not another person who is of a different race but perhaps more capable in "doing business"?

It stands to reason, my friend, that different groups of people will have different agendas. If you were to put such different groups of people physically close to each other, then they would concentrate on each other, rather than some distant authority which lives somewhere they can't even see. Take wars, for example. In most cases throughout history, it's between neighboring countries. Why?

[mishkin]

Ignoring this reality won't make it go away. The reality is that tens, or hundreds, of millions of Europeans, whether right or wrong, believe that an Islamic Europe is completely unacceptable, and this a non-negotiable demand. There is a relatively peaceful way of meeting their demands and a not-so-peaceful way. Everyone will have to choose whether to side with these people or fight them. Either way, there is going to be a fight, whether against "native" Europeans or against Muslims.

Maybe Europe should vote the illegalization of some religion?

[ioannis76]

Amazingly, in the quite varied neighbourhood where I live, we aren't killing each other either!

A powder keg will not blow up, unless there is a spark. But when the spark does come up, it's quite impressive who will turn on whom.

Apparently there have never been and race riots in the US?

[Prodromos]

Maybe Europe should vote the illegalization of some religion?

Maybe. Europe will have to make some tough decisions. Everyone will have to compromise a little, otherwise you're looking at a few dozen million casualties before this century's end.

[mishkin]

White fascism or helter skelter, If those are the only two options that you see you should try to open your eyes a little more (in this same thread there are some positive messages maybe you should re-read).

[Vanoi]

No? Aren't there race-defined gangs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison..._United_States
Why do those people band together according to race? I mean, if they are professional criminals, it really doesn't make sense, why accept one person in the gang based on race, and not another person who is of a different race but perhaps more capable in "doing business"?

Thats prison culture. And yet even with race-gangs, there still isn't constant massacres or killings over race even in prison. Being the same race doesn't guarantee you anything either. Ain't no white Jews in the Aryan Brotherhood.

It stands to reason, my friend, that different groups of people will have different agendas. If you were to put such different groups of people physically close to each other, then they would concentrate on each other, rather than some distant authority which lives somewhere they can't even see. Take wars, for example. In most cases throughout history, it's between neighboring countries. Why?

Gangs of criminals and racists have different agenda's? Call me shocked. You think way too much though into the race aspect. Their agendas are centered toward making money. Not ideology or race.

Apparently there have never been and race riots in the US?

Over 40 years ago during segregation and the civil rights movement.

I'm just saying how things are, not endorsing or condemning anything. This is far beyond Christchurch. The government exists for the benefit of the people, and this is an issue that matters a lot to millions of people. The people decide what their problems are, and political leaders have to find solutions to them. If liberal democratic leaders are unwilling or unable to address the people's concerns, the people will appoint illiberal leaders to solve their problems. It's that simple. We're already seeing a rapid rise in left-wing and right-wing populist parties, which emphasize helping the ingroup and demonizing the outgroup, and you can be sure that they don't consider Muslims as part of their ingroup. These parties are pretty tame compared to what's coming if Islam's growth isn't stopped soon.

Ignoring this reality won't make it go away. The reality is that tens, or hundreds, of millions of Europeans, whether right or wrong, believe that an Islamic Europe is completely unacceptable, and this a non-negotiable demand. There is a relatively peaceful way of meeting their demands and a not-so-peaceful way. Everyone will have to choose whether to side with these people or fight them. Either way, there is going to be a fight, whether against "native" Europeans or against Muslims.

We live in a society and laws and rights. They don't get to determine that no more than i get to determine my neighbor's religious beliefs.

There's not going to be a fight.

[Alwyn]

A powder keg will not blow up, unless there is a spark. But when the spark does come up, it's quite impressive who will turn on whom.

When members of a community - including a three-year old child and a 71-year old retired engineer and grandfather who threw himself in front of others - come under attack from a far-right terrorist, I blame the terrorist. Who do you blame?

[PointOfViewGun]

LOL, no they don't.
even when there isn't any violence outright in a given time, it's always there, lurking just below the surface. Seriously multicultural societies are extremely easy to rip apart. From high crime rates, to outright civil wars, we are talking about powder kegs. And it may sound somewhat peculiar, but at the same time they are extremely easy to control. Just pit one group against another, and you can tyrannize the whole society, which is, well, pretty much the point (see G. Soros and the governments he owns).

Wow, what a delusional and bigoted post this was. It's not possible to not hurt your brain while reading it. Here you have. The degenerative arguments of our time that fuel hatred and violence. Not grounded in any sort of reality, nor it even tries to be. The arguments are simply proud to be ignorant. You can not counter such a position with facts or logic or reason. It has no regard for it. You have to stand fast and ignore it. Let it get burned up in its own flame.

[Prodromos]

We live in a society and laws and rights. They don't get to determine that no more than i get to determine my neighbor's religious beliefs.

There's not going to be a fight. Its a delusion you hope happens because you think all Muslims are evil anyways.

There's only one way to find out, I guess.

[95thrifleman]

Islam is the problem, and if the problem isn't fixed soon, fixing it in the future could cause a lot of other problems, like pressures on liberal democracy and peace in general. If people can't solve a problem the relatively peaceful way, they are going to solve it the old-fashioned way.

Increasingly we're going to see politics divided not along Right vs Left lines, but Western vs Islamic. People on both the Right and the Left will form a united front against Islam, whose only allies, if any, will be a rapidly diminishing number of discredited secular progressives.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/t...-wing-support/



Segregation alone won't solve the problem, I'm afraid; Muslims are still able to vote, still have higher growth rates, and will still take over much of the West within a few decades if left unabated. The only available options are for them to either leave Islam or leave the West.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/...east-is-moving

yes, yes, you have already stated you consider all muslims to be evil on this forum. So the logical conclusion of your views? If they won't leave islam or the west, kill them instead?

Just like Americans, in LIVING memory made the same statements about blacks, just as the nazis made the same statements about the jews.

Thing is, it'll fail, just as the white only morons in 60's America failed.

[Vanoi]

It was the same thing during the Civil Rights Movement. That if we let blacks and whites live together eventually there would be some race-based civil war in America. Popular theory among many racists and just generally crazy people at the time.

[ioannis76]

When members of a community - including a three-year old child and a 71-year old retired engineer and grandfather who threw himself in front of others - come under attack from a far-right terrorist, I blame the terrorist. Who do you blame?

The terrorist, of course. Not least, because he gave "ammunition" to our adversaries to come out as the victims.

Thats prison culture.

I beg to differ. It's people of different races who are forced to live in close quarters with each other. Yes, of course, they were extremely violent individuals to begin with, but that only means that the "fuse" is going to be shorter, because PHYSICAL violence is their go to option. Non-violent people (or people who are not so foolishly impulsive as to disregard legal consequences) will not go to physical violence as their first option. They would try to talk to the opponent, if they consider, for example that their vital space has been compromised, or they would escalate to verbal violence. But you would still think "look at what that ing Greek is doing" if I were to park my car in a way that it would block the entrance to your garage, for example. Don't say you wouldn't.

there still isn't constant massacres or killings over race even in prison

That is a dependent on a huge variety of factors, many of which are more "practical". For example, different races are kept in different cell blocks (I wonder why they do that, now, if we're one big happy family). Another factor would be the relative strength of each group, ie, an attack would occur if one group believes itself to be significantly more powerful that another group, thus "ensuring" victory, and so on. Enemy states are not in constant warfare with each other, either, that doesn't mean that they don't want to fight any more.

[Big War Bird]

Yep any day now Canada is going to fall into civil war.

indeed!

How soon we forget.

Can you imagine yourself 5 years from now using a emoji to shrug off this Christchurch shooting?

[mishkin]

How soon we forget.

if that link does not lead to information about a recent civil war or very violent confrontations between broad sectors of the population in Canada it does not make sense.

[Vanoi]

I beg to differ. It's people of different races who are forced to live in close quarters with each other.

Yes but only a small minority of all prisoners are actually in race-based gangs, you know that right? By your logic all the prisoners should be flocking to their own race's prison gang yet they do not. Thats because these gangs agendas again are way more than just simple race.

Yes, of course, they were extremely violent individuals to begin with, but that only means that the "fuse" is going to be shorter, because PHYSICAL violence is their go to option. Non-violent people (or people who are not so foolishly impulsive as to disregard legal consequences) will not go to physical violence as their first option. They would try to talk to the opponent, if they consider, for example that their vital space has been compromised, or they would escalate to verbal violence. But you would still think "look at what that ing Greek is doing" if I were to park my car in a way that it would block the entrance to your garage, for example. Don't say you wouldn't.

Funny enough i highly doubt i'd be able to spot that you're Greek if i ever saw.

That is a dependent on a huge variety of factors, many of which are more "practical". For example, different races are kept in different cell blocks (I wonder why they do that, now, if we're one big happy family).

Uhhh no. You are describing Maximum Security segregation blocks that deal with highly violent individuals and gang members. If you go to prison in America you usually end up in General Population.

The only time you get separated from other prisoners is due to what your offending crime may be or gang affiliation. Not race.

[Alwyn]

The terrorist, of course. Not least, because he gave "ammunition" to our adversaries to come out as the victims.

Thanks, it's good to see that you acknowledge the responsibility of the terrorist.

Ordinary Muslims may be your "adversaries", but they're not mine. Was the three year old child your adversary, or the 71-year old grandfather and retired engineer? What harm would they have done to you?

My adversaries are the extremists. There are a lot of them, but there are a lot more of us.

How soon we forget.

I wonder what definition of 'civil war' you're using.

As I see it, examples like that attack provide more evidence to support the view that people need to unite against both Islamic extremists and far-right extremists:

That's one possibility. The possibility which seems more likely, for me, is that Right and Left will unite against the extremists, both the Islamic extremists and the far-right extremists. Each terrorist attack unites people of different beliefs against the attacker and the poisonous beliefs they represent. Ordinary Muslims are no threat to people in the community where I live, while far-right extremists are a threat to a lot of people - Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Muslims and others.

I'm moved by the reports of individuals who acted bravely while under terrorist attack. Daoud Nadi threw himself in front of others when the gunman arrived, and died trying to protect others. Abdul Aziz ran towards the gunman when he found that the Linwood mosque was under attack, when all Abdul was armed with was a credit-card machine (and then an empty gun which the attacker had dropped.) Naeem Rashid was killed trying to protect himself and others by tackling the gunman. Hosne Ara Parvin tried to save her husband, who used a wheelchair, but was killed in the attempt. Two rural community police officers blocked the gunman's car and arrested him, despite the danger they were in. Heroes all - an inspiration to everyone to stand against the extremists.

[ioannis76]

It's really funny how some people think that the lifespans of countries are measured in decades. They don't seem to realise that some situations will take some time to "brew". How do you "declare victory" regarding the civil rights movement, when it's only been a few decades since it was implemented, Vanoi?
Has your society come under any serious pressure since then, sufficient enough to test the integrity of the whole think you've built? Has your society come under any sort of scarcity of resources? I mean serious scarcity, not some sort of temporary capitalist crisis?
I bet it hasn't. give it time.