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Thread: It just went down in New Zealand

  1. #281

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Polls in the UK generally say most people view immigration positively. I’m among them, considering some of my family have immigrated back and forth within the Commonwealth. As well as that, NOT in spite of that, but instead simply additionally, most people also want immigration to decrease. This tells me people are not anti-immigration, they are anti-mass immigration.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ds-immigration
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    All im saying is the general sentiment in Europe it isn't what it used to be ( even in France and such). I also suspect this issue is more divisive then apparently it seemed. Meaning there was a big silent demographic that has this views. As opposed to mainstream, media and politics. I think we are seeing something of that unveil in our societies.

    It's broad and nuanced. Islamic terrorists are for the most part an example of the defence of the powerless. They are people organising to respond to a direct and present violent threat to their society or culture. Whether you agree with their cause or not, people who resort to this sort of terrorism are doing so because they have lost the ability to influence outcomes through other means.
    It is more broad and nuanced then you are suggesting. Hezbollah seem to fit in this narrative of yours. ISIS on the other hand, and other similar groups seem to follow a different parameter.

  2. #282
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    @cyclops
    There is some government over-reaction, the new gun laws by definition are rushed and from experienced will do very little in terms of numbers of people shot
    Congrats, that's about the dumbest thing possible one could add to this tragedy. AFAIK weapons are available even for teenagers with ease in NZ.

    But hearty drivel about immigration-critics in general - and likening them to this awful murderer - can of course never be wrong.

    The craphead had easy access to guns. This was the problem. And you have the gall to deny that in order to support your asinine views about what a "healthy society" is...
    Last edited by swabian; March 21, 2019 at 09:24 PM.

  3. #283
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    In this situation we're not dealing with a terrorist organisation with clear motives, rather we have a mentally unwell person who was stoked on by what they experienced first hand and what they read about. They created a personal narrative by mixing together all sorts of random stuff that justified their personal actions to themselves. The real question to come out of this situation is whether there is anything that can be done at all to stop this kind of atrocity that doesn't involve encroaching on personal freedoms. Sure gun control might help limit scope, but it doesn't address the root cause of someone with a concealed grudge who is disturbed enough to act on it. It disheartens me to say that I'm at a loss.
    A difficult issue. You know back in the day the US had a faily large and formal system for committing such people. Problem was it ran amok leading to snake pit:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    And the rather free use of frontal lobotomy. That being said the yo yo reaction has not served the US well with mandatory treatment when diagnosed extremely difficult to achieve and facilities to hold very rare. I would think in countries like NZ with better standard health care less people would stray off the path with out modern care. But also really given the rate of gun violence is low in NZ, very low and mass shooting are a profoundly uncommon, it is perhaps better not to over react.
    Last edited by conon394; Yesterday at 12:37 PM.
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  4. #284
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    This guy is deeply disturbed and probably of the same brand as Behring-Breivik.
    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    This perpetrator was probably a solo crazy.
    The link between mental illness and terrorism is complicated, but it's always the same old story: White supremacist attackers are mentally ill; Brown/ Muslims attackers are terrorists. Let's keep in mind that both (Breivik/Tarrant) have political agendas.
    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Islamic terrorists ...people who resort to this sort of terrorism are doing so because they have lost the ability to influence outcomes through other means.
    I'm not sure about that. On the one hand I wouldn't label Palestinian terrorism as "Islamic terrorist"; for the same reason I would not label Israeli's terrorism as Jewish terrorism. But on the other hand, ISIS Caliphate is/was an organized state with expansionist ambitions, an ambition that includes dominating all the territories of ancient historical Caliphates, ranging from the Al-Andalus to Southeast Asia. The global white supremacist agenda and their appeals for white ethno states are nothing new. Africa, in this battlefield, emerges again as a new "heart of darkness" (Conrad's book).
    Terrorism is a tactic for white supremacist terrorists and Islamic terrorists. To sump up, there is no real substantial difference between them. Improbably friends feeding each other, they all secretly rejoice with the (terrorist) success of their "opponents".
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  5. #285

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Terrorism is a tactic for white supremacist terrorists and Islamic terrorists. To sump up, there is no real substantial difference between them. Improbably friends feeding each other, they all secretly rejoice with the (terrorist) success of their "opponents".
    Well this particular shooter didn't act as "rogue" as it seems, as there was more than one person involved and 2 mosques attacked.
    The fact he labeled so hard himself with internet memes/expressions (saying subscribe to PewdiePie before the whole scene) and was a Bitcoins type of guy, means this is a Lose-Lose scenario.

    Now everyone remotely associated to internet jokes/culture or even memes on instagram will have easier Legal Clearance to be investigated/monitored. (which means almost anyone on TWC and basically almost anyone on whole internet will/may be considered as a "suspect" to monitor) Basically more state regulation and a bit closer to 1984. That shooter accomplished a Lose-Lose situation, the only real winners are the ones who want to set up in the West a State-Controlled Internet like in China.
    Last edited by fkizz; Yesterday at 11:11 AM.
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  6. #286
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Terrorism is a tactic for white supremacist terrorists and Islamic terrorists. To sump up, there is no real substantial difference between them. Improbably friends feeding each other, they all secretly rejoice with the (terrorist) success oftheir "opponents".
    It’s not that binary btw. Lots of different groups embrace terrorism.
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  7. #287
    SlartyBartfast's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    I'm willing to bet the perp was badly bullied at school: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...verweight.html
    I'll go further and say that most if not all school shooters are the victims of bullying. This perp was older and dwelt on the bullying longer and took the time to dress his hatred in nazi rhetoric, but the fact remains he was probably brutalized at school and started hating the world there. Indeed, doesn't all of our politics merely reflect our upbringing? The Islamic fundamentalist turned jihadi is merely acting out the brutalization inflicted on him and his people by the West.
    "Huh?"

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