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Thread: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

  1. #41
    Odenat's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Now of course, it was a successful solution to the violence, but still, I don’t think power sharing or allocating power by an arbitrary characteristic is an effective way to govern.
    The problem with Cyprus is that neither Greeks nor Turkish trust the other side. The history of the island is full of massacres and if someone wants a united Cyprus, that is the only way to go, therefore UN opted for this solution. Remember, 4 of the 5 member of UN security council, USA-Russia-France-England are Greek supporters. If they decided on this, you must understand that Turkish cypriots were in real danger. At 1880, 45% of Crete was Turkish, at 1905, 30 years later, not a single Turkish was left on the island. At 1876, Turkey accepted the independence of Crete due to European pressure. Both Turkish and Greek diplomats swore on their nations honor that they will honour the independence of Crete. A year later, Greece invaded Crete! Now you must understand why Turkey will never trust Greece.

    On the drilling issue; Eastern Mediterranean does not belong to Greeks. Turkey, North Cyprus, Syria, Egypt, Israel have their own economic zones. Therefore, until all parties agree how to share the resources, Greeks won't be allowed to do any drilling.

  2. #42
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    The problem with Cyprus is that neither Greeks nor Turkish trust the other side. The history of the island is full of massacres and if someone wants a united Cyprus, that is the only way to go, therefore UN opted for this solution. Remember, 4 of the 5 member of UN security council, USA-Russia-France-England are Greek supporters. If they decided on this, you must understand that Turkish cypriots were in real danger. At 1880, 45% of Crete was Turkish, at 1905, 30 years later, not a single Turkish was left on the island. At 1876, Turkey accepted the independence of Crete due to European pressure. Both Turkish and Greek diplomats swore on their nations honor that they will honour the independence of Crete. A year later, Greece invaded Crete! Now you must understand why Turkey will never trust Greece.

    On the drilling issue; Eastern Mediterranean does not belong to Greeks. Turkey, North Cyprus, Syria, Egypt, Israel have their own economic zones. Therefore, until all parties agree how to share the resources, Greeks won't be allowed to do any drilling.
    You start well but then you miss the truth...Its true that after 1930 the population exchange made things diferent. Cretan Muslims and Muslims from entire Greece (a total of 200k people) left their homes, when on the other side 2.5 millions left theirs that lived on them and their ancestors for 2500 years! You are talking about cleansing in Cyprus but you even do not know the events. I will agree with you that some idiot Greeks surrounded Cofinou Village as retaliations to an ambush by turkish cypriots (other idiots) to a convoy of the Greek Division that was stationed on Cyprus.
    You seam to know your side of history very well but you avoid to tell the "other side of the coin"....How many Greeks (Rum) lived in Constantinople in 1953? How many stores, houses and churches burned?
    After 1953, in 1964 how many Greeks forced to leave Constantinople and how many are living in th ecity today?
    Why Turkish Air Force bombed Cypriot villages in 1964?
    Why TurkishCypriots were ordered to leave their low ground villages and move to higher ones and fortify them with bungers and tunnels and where did they found the heavy weaponry BEFORE 1974?
    You talk about share...How can you tell someone to share what is his without giving something your self? That is not sharring that is stealing!
    Lets make a radical sugestion...Turkey will have 50% of oil and Gas that will be found in Cyprus and east of Crete but Turkey will give east Thrace and Constantinople to Greece..
    Its a win win deal...how your people would react to such a sugestion?
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  3. #43

    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    You start well but then you miss the truth...Its true that after 1930 the population exchange made things diferent. Cretan Muslims and Muslims from entire Greece (a total of 200k people) left their homes, when on the other side 2.5 millions left theirs that lived on them and their ancestors for 2500 years! You are talking about cleansing in Cyprus but you even do not know the events. I will agree with you that some idiot Greeks surrounded Cofinou Village as retaliations to an ambush by turkish cypriots (other idiots) to a convoy of the Greek Division that was stationed on Cyprus.
    You seam to know your side of history very well but you avoid to tell the "other side of the coin"....How many Greeks (Rum) lived in Constantinople in 1953? How many stores, houses and churches burned?
    After 1953, in 1964 how many Greeks forced to leave Constantinople and how many are living in th ecity today?
    Why Turkish Air Force bombed Cypriot villages in 1964?
    Why TurkishCypriots were ordered to leave their low ground villages and move to higher ones and fortify them with bungers and tunnels and where did they found the heavy weaponry BEFORE 1974?
    You talk about share...How can you tell someone to share what is his without giving something your self? That is not sharring that is stealing!
    Lets make a radical sugestion...Turkey will have 50% of oil and Gas that will be found in Cyprus and east of Crete but Turkey will give east Thrace and Constantinople to Greece..
    Its a win win deal...how your people would react to such a sugestion?
    So, the entirety of Greek attacks against Turks on the island from 1963 to 1974, was limited to an attack on the village of Kofinou in 1967?
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  4. #44
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, the entirety of Greek attacks against Turks on the island from 1963 to 1974, was limited to an attack on the village of Kofinou in 1967?
    According to Turkishcypriots more likely yes. In fact their communities in Paphos and elsewere were intact untill 1974. Paphos castle hosted the Cypriot Turkish community and suddenly they opened fire with heavy machinery ...Only the dual 40mm Boffors of a Greek landing ship against them "convinced " them to surrender.
    Lets summirise some issues.
    In 1959 TurkCypriots were 18% of the total population. Only with the British interfearence they managed to have EQUAL rights and a Veto VOTE against the 82% of the rest of population!
    Never the less in 1960 Cyprus -with those terms- became a state. But lets go back to WW2. Britain asked Turkey to join in its side but Turks were smart enough to avoid fight in the war but when the war was over they asked for rewards.
    The same time Cyprus under the British rule asked volunteers to join the British Army. Not a single turkcypriot joined while 15000 GreekCypriots joined and fought side by side with British soldiers.
    The "catch" from British to secure a draft to both communities was the the cypriot community that would offer the most volunteers would have the right to ask to join its motherland.
    To answer your question...The Turkish "AISE goes a trip " plan of invasion was ready since 1964 after the Turkish Airforce attacks against the Cypriot National Guard that was attacked when passed through turkish cypriot villages and NG responed the fire.
    Kofinoy was an idiocity of Greeks. The ambush from the turkish side was Police's task not the army's one. But USA convinced the Greek Chunta that such a respond would go unnotticed....Those idiot Greeks fell to that trap. USA after Kofinou demanded Greeks to withdraw the Greek Devision from the island that was the obstacle to Turkish Invasion... USA had long lost interest in the island's stabillity because the US company that had the copper mines in the island depleted all copper deposites! Raoulf Dectash wrote that if USA did not convinced the Greeks to use the army in Kofinou there would never be an excuse for the greek division to withdraw and an invasion was imposible.
    Read his memoirs book for more info!
    Not to mention that atleast 1640 people are still missing with almost a hundred greek soldiers that captured and went to Adana prison but only 12 came back.
    Where are the rest "alive" greek soldiers in Turkish prisons today????
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; March 15, 2019 at 02:00 PM.
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  5. #45

    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    According to Turkishcypriots more likely yes. In fact their communities in Paphos and elsewere were intact untill 1974. Paphos castle hosted the Cypriot Turkish community and suddenly they opened fire with heavy machinery ...Only the dual 40mm Boffors of a Greek landing ship against them "convinced " them to surrender.
    So, for example, Tochni massacre of August 14, 1974, did not happen?
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  6. #46
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, for example, Tochni massacre of August 14, 1974, did not happen?
    Answer your question your self...When Attila II began? How a shocked and in defence community could make a massacre when they had an enemy with 300% more tanks and a ratio 10/1 of forces in Attila II?
    Is that the kind of propaganda you learn in your schools in Turkey?
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  7. #47

    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Answer your question your self...When Attila II began? How a shocked and in defence community could make a massacre when they had an enemy with 300% more tanks and a ratio 10/1 of forces in Attila II?
    Is that the kind of propaganda you learn in your schools in Turkey?
    Atilla II operation began on August 14. Tochni is on the southern coastline of Cyprus. Are you suggesting that the Turkish army simply teleported all the way down there instantly?
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  8. #48

    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, the entirety of Greek attacks against Turks on the island from 1963 to 1974, was limited to an attack on the village of Kofinou in 1967?
    Let's say it did.
    Turkey committed similar and worse. That's not the way to respond if you want to call your operation a "peace operation". Furthermore, I fail to see how this grants the Turks the right to drill, given that the Turk-Cupriot "state" is recognised by nobody (and therefore has no EEZ".
    How does that work, "you killed Turk Cupriots, so I get some of your EEZ?". I don't quite think so.

    Turkey, North Cyprus, Syria, Egypt, Israel have their own economic zones.
    Nope. The other countries do, but "North Cyprus" is not recognised by anyone but Turkey. Therefore, "North Cyprus" does NOT have an EEZ.
    A state does not exist just because Turkey says so (or any other one country for that matter). This isn't the 11th century.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    Let's say it did.
    Turkey committed similar and worse. That's not the way to respond if you want to call your operation a "peace operation". Furthermore, I fail to see how this grants the Turks the right to drill, given that the Turk-Cupriot "state" is recognised by nobody (and therefore has no EEZ".
    How does that work, "you killed Turk Cupriots, so I get some of your EEZ?". I don't quite think so.
    Nope. The other countries do, but "North Cyprus" is not recognised by anyone but Turkey. Therefore, "North Cyprus" does NOT have an EEZ.
    A state does not exist just because Turkey says so (or any other one country for that matter). This isn't the 11th century.
    Why lets say it did? Why confine series of atrocities onto just one incident? Why ignore everything else?

    You seem to have missed the context of the post you're responding against. My comments are made against someone's attempt to revise history to whitewash Greek actions. It has nothing to do with calling Turkish intervention a peace operation or about resources.

    States exists because of a number of realities, not because Turkey says so. Lack of recognition does not really suddenly mean that a state with its own constitution, elections, economy, authority etc. does not exist.
    The Armenian Issue
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  10. #50
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    In a Greek island that was 80% Greek whom aspired to be 100% through ethnic cleansing, it is quite expected to have safeguards. The EU allowed Cyprus to enter the union without any say to the people living in the northern part. I don't know what they'd do in such a case.

    No, it doesn't allow Turkish Cypriots to do whatever they want in the chamber. The Greeks would have 3/4th of the chamber members. There is no way that Turks would gain half the seats to rely on one Greek member to pass a legislation. That could happen in the senate which would still require the legislation to clear the chamber where Greeks would always have 3/4th of the seats.

    Cyprus have not been a Christian state for a long time. The fact that you assume it to be and present the fear of it not being one is quite a troubling position to have.
    The island "aspired" to be 100% Greek 50 years ago, during a very different time against the wishes of the majority of the Greek- and Turkic- Cypriots.
    When I said the "Chamber" I meant the senate that would be very easy to flip.
    Cyprus was one of the first archbishoprics of Christianity and has been Christian since Antiquity. Sergius Paulus was among the first (some say the first) proconsuls of the Roman Empire to convert to Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    TAt 1880, 45% of Crete was Turkish, at 1905, 30 years later, not a single Turkish was left on the island. At 1876, Turkey accepted the independence of Crete due to European pressure. Both Turkish and Greek diplomats swore on their nations honor that they will honour the independence of Crete. A year later, Greece invaded Crete!
    Buuuuuull... Muslims were perhaps 25-30% or so and many of them were Cryptochristians (or converted to the victor's religion after the war claiming they were).
    We were not allowed to own horses, weapons and enter the cities. What did you expect us to do? Greece didn't really help us, they lost the war, the Great Powers did. The Cretan state was established in 1898, not 1876 and that was because the Ottomans attacked us. Crete was liberated in 1908 and joined Greece in 1913.

    The Turkocretans left Crete in the population exchange that saw Greeks removed from Asia minor after 3500 years of presence there. It was much harder on us than the Turks and many more of us were forcefully expelled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    On the drilling issue; Eastern Mediterranean does not belong to Greeks. Turkey, North Cyprus, Syria, Egypt, Israel have their own economic zones. Therefore, until all parties agree how to share the resources, Greeks won't be allowed to do any drilling.
    Eastern Mediterranean doesn't belong to the Greeks. However, the waters south of Cyprus do. And of course the parties that were relevant (including Israel and Egypt) agreed on how to share the resources. And of course there is already drilling despite some insolent barking by Erdogan and of course, there's no state called Northern Cyprus, let alone an economic zone there.
    Last edited by alhoon; March 16, 2019 at 09:21 PM. Reason: double post

  11. #51

    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The island "aspired" to be 100% Greek 50 years ago, during a very different time against the wishes of the majority of the Greek- and Turkic- Cypriots.
    When I said the "Chamber" I meant the senate that would be very easy to flip.
    Cyprus was one of the first archbishoprics of Christianity and has been Christian since Antiquity. Sergius Paulus was among the first (some say the first) proconsuls of the Roman Empire to convert to Christianity.
    It doesn't really matter how many years it have been. There was never a forward step from the south side, so I don't see why the north side would just continue like nothing happened.

    Flipping the senate is still dependent on a legislation clearing the chamber which you seem to be ignoring.

    Cyprus having one of the first archbishopric doesn't make it a Christian state. No matter what Turks do in the chamber or the senate, they can not go back in time and change history... Somehow you use the argument of Turks wanting safeguards is an invalid request because things happened 50 years ago, but its OK for you to say that Cyprus is a Christian state when its not and there is valid fear that Turks will change that non-existent situation.
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  12. #52

    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    States exists because of a number of realities, not because Turkey says so. Lack of recognition does not really suddenly mean that a state with its own constitution, elections, economy, authority etc. does not exist.
    Yes it does, as far as the international community is concerned. And, in extension, as far as the international law is concerned. Let me put it this way. A child comes, saying he/she is the child of X person. X person does not recognise this child as his/her own. Said child doesn't get to inherit (for example) any of the property/bank deposits, etc of X person, nor does he/she get to bear X person's name. In our case, it is as though Turkey has occupied an area in an ongoing (I hope to see this soon) war.

    And having closed that, is this quote here true?

    Turkey has long objected to Cyprus drilling for gas and its claims on the island’s EEZ partly overlap with Cyprus’ blocks 1, 4, 6 and 7. Ankara also supports the north’s claims on blocks 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 12 and 13, including within few kilometres from the Aphrodite gas field in block 12.
    https://cyprus-mail.com/2018/12/02/e...gainst-cyprus/

    The ridiculousness of the Turkish claim is apparent if we look at the map:
    map incosed



    How the hell can Turkey ever even HOPE to justify such outrageous claims?
    Last edited by NorseThing; Yesterday at 07:35 PM. Reason: content box for map

  13. #53
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Alright, let’s give the benefit of the doubt and say North Cyprus has a say here.

    Where the does Erdogan come into this?
    Under the patronage of Pontifex Maximus
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  14. #54

    Default Re: Erdogan warns oil companies against drilling in... Cyprus

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    Yes it does, as far as the international community is concerned. And, in extension, as far as the international law is concerned. Let me put it this way. A child comes, saying he/she is the child of X person. X person does not recognise this child as his/her own. Said child doesn't get to inherit (for example) any of the property/bank deposits, etc of X person, nor does he/she get to bear X person's name. In our case, it is as though Turkey has occupied an area in an ongoing (I hope to see this soon) war.
    And having closed that, is this quote here true?
    https://cyprus-mail.com/2018/12/02/e...gainst-cyprus/
    The ridiculousness of the Turkish claim is apparent if we look at the map:
    How the hell can Turkey ever even HOPE to justify such outrageous claims?
    No, it really doesn't. Reality doesn't work that. Even the international community acknowledges Northern Cyprus' existence as its recognized in a number of international communities as I have pointed out before. Your analogy is quite faulty. It's more like you have a child sitting on your lap and just because his identity doesn't exist in official records you claim that the child doesn't exist.

    I don't know exactly which parts either party claims as I have not seen any official maps on that. However, I know that one problem is that south tries to claim all the resources for itself while claiming the entirety of island which ignores the interest of the people it claims jurisdiction over.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Alright, let’s give the benefit of the doubt and say North Cyprus has a say here.
    Where the does Erdogan come into this?
    Erdoğan, first and foremost, uses the issue as a political tool to rally up his base for the upcoming elections. However, the idea that Turkey intervenes is due to the fact that Northern Cyprus doesn't have an army of its own to establish its interest.
    The Armenian Issue
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