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Thread: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

  1. #41
    Morrowgan's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Hey I've been playing since 2006 and I still suck
    Member of the Beyond Skyrim Project

  2. #42

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    This is not the topic of this thread. This is a topic of another one, the link is here. I think it's worth debating how high the losses should be given that the EBII doesn't have a mechanism of troops coming back home and disbanding after a campaign and also no mechanism to provide for "on-the-march" losses: every army was losing men every day, for a plethora of reasons. I'm curious about your opinion in that thread.
    Disband your armies after a campaign...I do that it's somewhat easy since I link the units to the general age...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    I went through Broken Crescent, Call of Warhammer, Third Age and a host of other mods on VH/VH - I can handle myself.
    Rad makes a valid point.

  3. #43
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiuga View Post
    Disband your armies after a campaign...I do that it's somewhat easy since I link the units to the general age...
    Well, this might be another home rule. But I believe the mod should limit the number of the home rules. And this is my main concern with the number of losses: you build one army and then you go on a perpetual conquest. The - very right! - slow regeneration of the recruitment pools is irrelevant if you don't suffer losses.
    So what I'd like to seen in the EBII making up for the un-historicalities of the engine: provide for "on-the-march" losses and provide somehow for the coming-back of the troops or provide for ageing of the troops. The only answer I see is that the losses from the battles were low. But this overlooks the big picture... So much has been done to limit the un-historicalities concerning public order and ability to hold settlements under control while so little for the amount of the available troops, imo.
    Perhaps at the higher difficulties, to keep the M/M setting accessible to the new (or old) players.

  4. #44

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    I have dealt with the troops-not-getting-old question by using my imagination:
    The individual soldiers come on go, but the regiment/warband/cohort continues to exist unless destroyed/merged/disbanded.
    More renowned (experienced) regiments maintain a higher level of combat readiness by attracting better replacements - experienced soldiers from other regiments, talented recruits etc.

    I wish that there was a strategy game that made the player deal with recruitment, training, equipment, supply and logistics, travel etc. I wish.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    I also disband after campaigns. Helps to think of the game not as a competition between me and the computer, but collaborative effort for me to have fun. I get that not everyone gets their jollies the same way though.

  6. #46
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Disbanding units in settlements refreshes recruitment pools. They're not simply lost, if it's something that can be recruited there.

    The default assumption is H/M, not M/M.

  7. #47
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Disbanding units in settlements refreshes recruitment pools. They're not simply lost, if it's something that can be recruited there..
    oh, I've overlooked it! that's a good news. AFAIR, the M2TW engine enables going over the limit (ie if there's a limit of 1 unit in the pool and it's there, but you disband another unit - then it'd be 2).

  8. #48

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    I do believe that any accrued experience is lost when the unit is disbanded - one will not get their gold chevron units back after re-enlistment.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    So play without gold chevroned units, like the AI mostly does. Having units that last 100 years with experience accrued over dozens of disparate campaigns doesn't make any sense anyway. Not to mention not needing yet another edge for the human player over limited AI but wishing the game was more of a challenge.

  10. #50

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    I have dealt with the troops-not-getting-old question by using my imagination:
    The individual soldiers come on go, but the regiment/warband/cohort continues to exist unless destroyed/merged/disbanded.
    More renowned (experienced) regiments maintain a higher level of combat readiness by attracting better replacements - experienced soldiers from other regiments, talented recruits etc.
    Ahem

    If you disband, you're putting those troops back into the recruitment pool. When you re-enlist them, it will still technically be the same men, just without the experience they earned. It doesn't matter if you disband or not, without some imagination and roleplay - the units live until killed.

    The only thing that disbanding actually does is saving cash.
    Last edited by Rad; March 05, 2019 at 09:51 AM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    If you can pretend one thing, you can pretend another that doesn't directly benefit you, the player, with better stats. Epecially if game being too easy is an issue. It would also be closer to something "realistic" with less mental gymnastics required to make sense of it. But anyway, what do I care what other people pretend, I'm happy doing my thing and I'll just do that.

  12. #52

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Disbanding units I don't currently need would benefit me more than anything else. I'm currently paying well over 100k in unit upkeep. I figure I can disband half of my army without causing serious unrest while I'm at peace. What happens to the game when I accumulate two or three million mnai?
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Dunno, never had more than a few hundred thousand at a time in peacetime myself, which gets put into building projects for the most part. But I don't put the best min-maxed governors into place and as high a tax as I can get away with and make sure I'm extracting as much coin as possible as often as possible either, roleplaying those decisions and letting chips fall where they may. Any surplus gets eaten up pretty quickly once war kicks off and armies are recruited, new lands with new construction projects waiting are conquered, new mercenaries to garrison them are hired, etc.

    My around 200k war chest was depleted within a couple years and now I'm living season-to-season with slowed production across the empire during prosecution of a so-far 12 year campaign against Rome. And using units without massive stat boosts cause they've been around since the beginning of the game 150 years ago has made it at least marginally more challenging than it otherwise would have been. But mostly, it's fun for me to think of these units as individual soldiers, recruited and marched off to war, missing home, and those lucky enough to have survived getting an opportunity to go back home and disband to be with their families. Or sometimes, some will stay behind and estaish military colonies, disbanding in their conquered lands (ideally coinciding with construction of colony buildings).

    To that end, far as pretending, I see experience as experience and battle-hardendness gained by those soldiers on that particular campaign. Even if I hire same units a few yearsater from same region, they're not the same people they were then in the same condition. Their different unit stats reflect varying experience factors among them, better stats aren't always reflective of physical things like armor, but also mental factors like experience (elite presumably experienced units come into the game without chevrons already attached).

  14. #54

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Even with the 100k army, I'm earning 15-30k per turn and I have a very hard time spending all that extra money - keeping the treasury below 100k mnai is the goal because I am trying to avoid the "corrupt scumbag governor" delight. I build and I build and I build. I have a hard time believing that the player has money issues past a certain point in the game.
    Before my building mania, I used to accumulate money, and let me tell you what happens when you get a few million mnai in your pocket. With those resources at your disposal, you can absolutely crush the AI. A single silver/gold chevroned unit won't make a difference. 20 regular ones will. Quantity is a quality all its own.

    When you tell me that having experienced troops is somehow an edge over the AI, I cannot help but chuckle.

    You know why?

    1. The AI fields more armies than I do. A lot more armies. Filled with very experienced elites and professionals.
    In my last war against the Seleukids, I faced dozens of armies teeming with gold chevroned units, often Agema and Kataphraktoi troops. The AI gets them easy. I don't. Because I do not autoresolve, it's quite hard for my troops to gain experience points. My best infantry unit had 2 silver chevrons. I finished that extremely brutal war with around 10 silver chevroned units, mostly cavalry and archers (higher chances of survival).

    2. What do those experience lvls actually do for my few veteran troops?
    I am not entirely sure about this one, but I believe that every experience point gives a morale bonus. That is something I usually don't need because combat morale is one of the things I manage quite well.
    Every lvl (bronze, silver, gold) gives 1+ to melee attack - not noticeable compared to things like armor, shield and defense ratings.
    Prestige - I love mah veteran troops and I will go out of my way to keep them safe. That mostly means garrison duty in cities that will never get attacked. So, those troops that should be giving me an unfair advantage over the AI actually just sit around, keep warm and drink beer
    Last edited by Rad; March 05, 2019 at 12:27 PM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  15. #55
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Rad, what does your navy look like?

  16. #56

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    I've raised quite a number of ships lately - gotta match Carthage and Rome.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  17. #57
    Lusitanio's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    I remember playing a campaign with a submod that gave me more money after conquering a settlement and to avoid having crazy amounts of money I used to give a lot of money to the AI factions, especially my allies, as a gift

  18. #58

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    I used to give a lot of money to the AI factions, especially my allies, as a gift
    I used to do that too. I even bought peace. Still had millions. Best way to stop the overflow is spending cash on buildings and troops.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  19. #59

    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Since this is a topic of additions and changes, I figured I might ask if there are going to be any money-sinks further on in development?

    I'm not necessarily expecting any kind of depth of this level, but the MEOIU and Taxes mod for EUIV does an incredible job at simulating local powers taking their slice of the pie in terms of money (and manpower (and political power)). What's more is that, within the confines of their own interests, they will even develop provinces themselves and provide troops for your army, built on their autonomous ai.

    Don't even know if it's possible, but one interesting idea could be to make farms and granaries require substantially more upkeep, but also create a system where the number of units you have at your disposal has a scaling extra cost based on their size relative to your total food production, or something like that. Alas, the limitations of the TW engine, but if economic simulation could come to this game as well, man, it would take it to a whole new level. Just my two cents anyway.

  20. #60
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: What else is to be added/ changed in EBII going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Even with the 100k army, I'm earning 15-30k per turn and I have a very hard time spending all that extra money - keeping the treasury below 100k mnai is the goal because I am trying to avoid the "corrupt scumbag governor" delight. I build and I build and I build. I have a hard time believing that the player has money issues past a certain point in the game.
    Before my building mania, I used to accumulate money, and let me tell you what happens when you get a few million mnai in your pocket. With those resources at your disposal, you can absolutely crush the AI. A single silver/gold chevroned unit won't make a difference. 20 regular ones will. Quantity is a quality all its own.
    Yes, this flood-of-money is also my experience, even if I advanced much less in my games. I've flagged it here.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; March 05, 2019 at 01:38 PM.

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