German Westeros mod sends "cease & desist"-letter to PeaMan over his mod - assets from GoT Enhanced!

[Mr_Nygren]

Hello, today i got a PM over at MODDB from Peaman where he sent me a screenshot of a "Cease and desist"-letter because of some assets in use in his mod from the German Westeros mod. These assets were taken from GoT Enhanced and not from the Westeros mod as far as i recall - it is a few unit-cards, maybe the head of the Daenarys model and the dragons (originally from Warhammer: The Sundering but reskinned).

As i recall Gigantus already made a rule on this for GoT: Enhanced.

Peaman might have taken other creatures such as wolves from there but i am not entirely sure of which assets he took for the Wildlings and "The Others".

I wrote this to Peaman regarding the GoT: Enhanced assets:

"

Their mod has stolen assets from lots of mods.

Gigantus over at TWC already said it were fine to use unit cards from their mod because they were taken from mods such as Thrid Age, GoT: Enhanced etc. Those guys terrorised our mod GoT: Enhanced in the comments for quite awhile after we took the dragons, the head of Daenarys and som portraits.

But - they had a few years back stolen all the portraits of GoT - they did also steal other assets from Westeros: Total War 1.0 before it were released. Most of their creatures are stolen Warhammer units. They do not have permission for either the Dragons nor the mammoth.

The mammoth i wanted myself - but the creator said no. He hasn't given the German mod permission. Tell those guys to stop with their hypocrisy and remind them of their mod being based on lots of stolen material.

And as i wrote - Gigantus over at TWC has said that mods who are banned on TWC doesn't count as long as the assets aren't the property of another hosted mod over at TWC. So you could use their assets as long as the assets aren't owned by a third party hosted on TWC. The german mod doesn't fall under the rules of TWC - as the mod was banned for stealing assets.

I don't know about moddb - but GoT: Enhanced suffered no penalties after taking a few assets - they had after all done the same to us in the past.

About copyright and cease and desist that seems crazy.

- They do not own Medieval 2 - CA/Sega does, they do not own Game of Thrones - JRR Martin does, they do not own most of their assets - they took them from other mods and they can't say a mod has copyright.

Mods can have copyright in the sense you can't just steal from a mod. But any legal threats are out of the question. At the most TWC can punish a mod by banning it for stealing assets - like what happened to them in the past.

- But if they try to sue you you can laugh at them. Because this isn't a matter of money at all. If they proclaim you've stolen their work and they've lost money on it then they are criminals who are earning money. If they just think the assets are copyrighted then many other mods can sue them as well. Then we can sue them."

Now - what do you others think of the matter?

I think they are hypocrites trying to C&D a mod for using assets that are in their mod, when many of those assets were stolen from Warhammer, Third age and Westeros and even GoT: Enhanced.

[Crociato78]

Incredible!!!


I remember that the German team had taken material without permission for their mod.


Can they use material taken without permission and others can not do it from their mod???
It does not seem such a normal reasoning.

[Mr_Nygren]

Incredible!!!


I remember that the German team had taken material without permission for their mod.


Can they use material taken without permission and others can not do it from their mod???
It does not seem such a normal reasoning.

Yes, that is total hypocrisy on their part - and is exactly why i would laugh at them if they sued me and just sue them back.

[PeaMan]

Incredible!!!


I remember that the German team had taken material without permission for their mod.


Can they use material taken without permission and others can not do it from their mod???
It does not seem such a normal reasoning.

Indeed, the german westeros mod uses a lot of material from various mods.

Usually I would ask permission from the creators before using any assets but when it comes to that mod I didn't think they deserved the respect of being asked since they didn't ask in turn.

It's a shame really because the german westeros mod has great potential but alas they chose the dark side of the force.

I think Mr_Nygren got it right when he said to me that they are trying to scare a man to stop working on the mod but it won't work.

[florida_men]

They can just send a cease-and-desist letter to TWC. Cheap, fast and effective. TWC would never risk a trial, they would ban the mod.

What Gigantus and TWC say and their rules are meaningless. Only copyrigt-law applies (Universal Copyright Convention).

Mr_Nygren, your statements must be proved in court. Do you have money and time for it? By the way: the place of jurisdiction would be a German court.

[GeneralG]

I can assure you nothing is going to happen as metion they have no rights to the assets. As stated they belong to ca and grr Martin

[Toho]

They can just send a cease-and-desist letter to TWC. Cheap, fast and effective. TWC would never risk a trial, they would ban the mod.

What Gigantus and TWC say and their rules are meaningless. Only copyrigt-law applies (Universal Copyright Convention).

Mr_Nygren, your statements must be proved in court. Do you have money and time for it? By the way: the place of jurisdiction would be a German court.

Ayyy Lmao...

Edit: Living up to your state's reputation I see. Good lad.

[florida_men]

I can assure you nothing is going to happen as metion they have no rights to the assets. As stated they belong to ca and grr Martin

That's not the point. It's about created material of the modders. A stolen line of text or a texture-file is enough for a lawsuit.

Ayyy Lmao...

Edit: Living up to your state's reputation I see. Good lad.

Is that supposed to be a insult?

[Crociato78]

That's not the point. It's about created material of the modders. A stolen line of text or a texture-file is enough for a lawsuit.


Is that supposed to be a insult?

Ok, it is not correct to take the material without permission. Here we all agree!


The problem is that even the German team has taken some mods material from this "TWCenter" forum, without the permission of the various teams.


So it seems right to preach well and behave badly?

[PeaMan]

That's not the point. It's about created material of the modders. A stolen line of text or a texture-file is enough for a lawsuit.

You and your buddies act as though I used the German westeros mod as a base from the comments you've been posting on the moddb page so allow me to clarify some things for you..

1.The mod uses Badger-dudes fire and blood submod as a base not the german westeros mod.

2. The mod uses 387 units, majority of which come the from GOT 4.9 mod and were created by VltimaRatio which I've got permission to use. The hero models were created by HannibalExMachina who also granted me permission. Too be more precise, 382 of those units I have permission to use (98.71%) and 5 I don't (1.29%).

There is no comparison to the german westeros mod..

Ps: Doesn't the char strat model for ned stark in your mod have the horn on gondor on his belt? Since when did the lord of winterfell carry the horn of gondor.

Yes if the German westeros team actually respected others work and asked permission to use it rather than steal it, I would of course asked you for permission to use the undead models but you don't deserve that right.

Is that supposed to be a insult?

You would know how to best insult others I would expect, you and your friends from the german westeros team have been spamming my moddb page hurling insults my way..

https://gyazo.com/46ac6831534f5f38198e786672f15b41

Though I suppose that's actually kind compared to the other comments I've had to delete from you guys.

In response to your latest message..

https://gyazo.com/2fee7f3f62be71850a3bf81a468d9b0d

I brought the matter to Gigantus when you first sent the so called 'cease and desist' and his answer was more or less that it was bs. I trust his word a lot more than I do yours. If he comes to the decision that its best I just remove the undead and walker units I will but until them they are staying, I suppose it's a bit of karma for you.

[florida_men]

To make one thing clear: I have nothing to do with the German mod. I'm in the copyright business and I just want to help.

2. The mod uses 387 units, majority of which come the from GOT 4.9 mod and were created by VltimaRatio which I've got permission to use. The hero models were created by HannibalExMachina who also granted me permission. Too be more precise, 382 of those units I have permission to use (98.71%) and 5 I don't (1.29%).

That's more than enough to sue you. By the way, you're admitting to stealing intellectual property. Not good...

Yes if the German westeros team actually respected others work and asked permission to use it rather than steal it, I would of course asked you for permission to use the undead models but you don't deserve that right.

It's not a question of respect. It doesn't matter what you think about it. Copyright infringement is a crime all over the world. People like you, who think they are above the law, I get to know every day in my job. All fall deeply...

I brought the matter to Gigantus when you first sent the so called 'cease and desist' and his answer was more or less that it was bs. I trust his word a lot more than I do yours. If he comes to the decision that its best I just remove the undead and walker units I will but until them they are staying, I suppose it's a bit of karma for you.

Trust Gigantus if you want. I've been working in the business for thirty years and I've made copyright infringers poor for a lot less.

[PeaMan]

To make one thing clear: I have nothing to do with the German mod. I'm in the copyright business and I just want to help.


That's more than enough to sue you. By the way, you're admitting to stealing intellectual property. Not good...


It's not a question of respect. It doesn't matter what you think about it. Copyright infringement is a crime all over the world. People like you, who think they are above the law, I get to know every day in my job. All fall deeply...


Trust Gigantus if you want. I've been working in the business for thirty years and I've made copyright infringers poor for a lot less.

Listen you can't have it both ways, whats with the hypocrisy?

There's no need to lie, it's clear your on the german westeros team.

[florida_men]

I'm not a modder and not in any team, but I've just contacted the Germans. I will join their legal department. It's nothing personal, but I love my job and I'm very good at it. Let's play!

[Mr_Nygren]

That's not the point. It's about created material of the modders. A stolen line of text or a texture-file is enough for a lawsuit.


Is that supposed to be a insult?

" A stolen line of text is enough for a lawsuit"

There are rules about text in TWC-modding being an exception from any "ownership"-claims. You can't claim to own code in Medieval 2.

But thanks for a good laugh.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

I will join their legal department. It's nothing personal, but I love my job and I'm very good at it. Let's play!

Please do. Please do all that you can do. I will enjoy watching your psuedo-legal flounder and flop like the baseless nonsense it is.

A fitting match for a team that lacks the creativity not to blatantly steal assets from elsewhere and display extreme hypocrisy on the matter with every other move.

[King Athelstan]

I'm looking forward to seeing how this evolves...

[keldo52]

I'm not a modder and not in any team, but I've just contacted the Germans. I will join their legal department. It's nothing personal, but I love my job and I'm very good at it. Let's play!

Definitely a Floridian, making everyone else’s Business theirs

[Gigantus]

Let me drop a few lines here:

1. Regardless if a mod has been banned, is made by the Chinese or Russians (who don't give a fig about 'copyright' either), it is not a waiver to use material from their mods without permission, particularly if that material originates with them. You do so at your own risk as TWC will support the rights of the original creator, without exception.

2. When the mod got banned here (and from a number of other sites) because it basically was a rip off of the one hosted here, TWC received an injunction from Mr Martin's lawyer. It so happened that it was an impersonation of the actual lawyer for Mr. Martin (down to the physical address in Germany), which took some effort to ascertain. From that point of view I can understand the hesitation of the team to actually respond as this simply appeared to be an intimidation tactic.

3. Good house keeping however recommends to follow up on any case of this nature. I have not seen any supporting material nor made aware if any was indeed submitted and as such voiced my doubts over the claims validity, especially in view of the above, but by Peaman's own admission 5 models are contentious and I have advised him on what action to take and trust he will find my recommendations acceptable.

4. I am once more appalled to what level the team of Dunkle Schwingen stoops to intimidate competing teams from which they originally stole their work. A simple contact would have had the same result provided there was evidence to support a claim, see point 1.

[Gigantus]

I'm not a modder and not in any team, but I've just contacted the Germans. I will join their legal department. It's nothing personal, but I love my job and I'm very good at it. Let's play!

The modder claim might be true but I have my doubts about the team part. You do seem to only pop up when it is about Dunkle Schwingen (since 2017) and they require a defence for their actions, hence not really surprised about the manner of your posts, to be honest - it's pretty much in line with DS's modus operandi.


Note: double post to keep matters separated

[Toho]

To make one thing clear: I have nothing to do with the German mod. I'm in the copyright business and I just want to help.


That's more than enough to sue you. By the way, you're admitting to stealing intellectual property. Not good...


It's not a question of respect. It doesn't matter what you think about it. Copyright infringement is a crime all over the world. People like you, who think they are above the law, I get to know every day in my job. All fall deeply...


Trust Gigantus if you want. I've been working in the business for thirty years and I've made copyright infringers poor for a lot less.

I feel bad for this kid.
Yeah kid. Because I am 99% certain that person typing this message is a child or extremely ignorent on law.

I actually have some experience speaking with lawyers who sent an actual Cease and Desist from HBO. You don't have a grain of sand to stand on kiddo.
The game and everything within it belongs to CA.
The story and art presented belong to HBO and GRRM and his publishing company.

Neither you or I own anything besides sass and internet money.
Just go mod if it makes you happy. Stop stirring up stuff so I stop getting notification in my email.

Thanks and Tschüss