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Thread: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66

  1. #1
    Elfdude's Avatar The Blue Spirit
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    Default [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66

    Original thread can be viewed here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hader View Post
    **Note the proposal has been refined several times, please review Original Thread**
    This proposal is already long enough as is, so I'll keep this preamble short. I have come together with the rest of Hex here to draft up this proposal to reflect what we think the best course for the Curia is going forward. The main point I wish to make here being that all of Hex have collaborated and agreed upon this collection of changes to present "To: Curia, From: Hex". I would not say all Hex are in 110% agreement on every little detail, as we all have our slight preferences and differences on some things, but more than enough so on the core concepts and items presented below for me to feel comfortable presenting it from Hex as such. We hope this is enough to help convince the Curia of the need for such changes and our faith in doing so being the proper course for now; obviously, do not take it for granted, and give time and thought to each individual section and feedback/critique as necessary. However, we hope this is whole and conclusive enough as is.

    So without further delay...

    This post is the most updated version. Post #3 is the original version before discussion and edits made any changes.

    Item 1: Curial Moderation

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Reasoning: I don't think we need to go into too much depth here. We just need to hold the Curia to the same standards as the rest of the site, so moderation will be enforced equally here now too. How this will be done is through the addition of a new Curial Officer rank, known as the Praefect. One, the 'Primus Praefect', shall be the 'chief moderator' so to speak of the Curia. They will be an elected position, with certain moderation/tribunal experience requirements (listed below), however they will not have an expiring term, only elected when the current one steps down. They will have up to 2 other Praefects also serving with them. These 2 will serve in rotating terms of 6 months each, with less strict requirements on moderation/tribunal history, to give some a chance to gain experience in this sort of office while still under the mentorship and leadership of one that does have the right experience. Given that they are all tasked with moderation just the Curia and its related forums, no ability to issue infractions, there should be little issue with overstepping bounds or mistakes made on their part when they have both the scrutiny of the whole Curia on top of the support of 2 other Praefects and the ToS as a reference.

    Whenever elected, the Primus Praefect will be ratified by Moderation Hex. Should there ever present any issues with the Praefects at any point, whether due to their behavior, abuse of office, prolonged absence, or significant and consistent lack of activity in their office, Staff Moderation (and specifically Moderation Hex) have the power to step in and relieve/take over Praefect duties, as well as appoint a Staff Moderator to the position until such a time that it is resolved.

    Key points:
    No Praefect may hold or run for any other curial officer position simultaneously (except when the end one term coincides with the beginning of another election afterwards).
    All must be citizens at time of election.
    The Primus Preafect may be a current staff moderator or current Tribune. The other Praefects cannot, nor can they be a Tribune. Should they wish to become a staff moderator (assuming they have gone through the proper channels to do so of course), they must resign their position and ensure a proper election for their successor is held and concluded before transitioning. If the Primus Praefect is also a staff moderator of at least Global Moderator rank, then they may also carry out roles of a staff moderator in any curial ToS violation (including issuing an infraction as well as beginning the proper referral process). If they are not a staff moderator of at least Global Moderator rank, they may only report to the rest of staff moderation any issue requiring an infraction. The fact of their Global Moderator rank should be a non issue for their election, as even if they are not of this rank and able to infract within the Curia, all infractions are going to go through Staff Moderation regardless, and thus we should not be worried about continuity of the process just because of the presence or lack of a Global Staff Moderator as Primus Praefect (or in short, it can only serve to help expedite the process slightly at best, otherwise nothing different happens except it takes longer with a few more hands on deck).
    The Primus Praefect must have a minimum 3 months of Staff Moderation experience (verified by Moderation Hex/Staff); two full Magistrate terms with reasonable activity to substantiate experience with applying the ToS (verified by Moderation Hex and Tribunes prior to an election); or served a sufficient amount of time as a Tribune (verified if needed by Hex).
    The rotating offices of the other 2 Preafects will not require any Moderation or Tribunal experience, and while prior experience is certainly allowed and potentially beneficial, this office is encouraged to be utilized by those with little to no experience as a stepping stone towards gaining such applicable experience.

    Constitutional Syntax Changes
    Article II. The Curator and Curial OfficersCitizens elect and can run for9 Curial Officer positions: Magistrates, Censors and the Curator Curator, Censors, Praefects and Magistrates.10

    The Curator acts as a local moderator of the Curia and is responsible for ensuring the Curia's day-to-day tasks are accomplished. Two Censors, appointed by the Curator, assist with Curial tasks and review referrals from Curial infractions..11 Magistrates review Moderation actions in the Tribunal. and Censors the conduct of citizens Praefects are the full moderators of the Curia and its related forums.7

    Undue absence or negligence may lead to an officer's removal from office.12 Any Curial Officer receiving a Moderation or Curial warning is immediately removed from office.

    Amend Footnote 10: The Primus Praefect has a one year term after election; the 2 other Praefects have 6 month terms from time of election. The Primus Praefect requires verifiable experience in moderation for 3 months, and/or Tribunal experience as a Tribune or 2 Magistrate terms.

    Amend Footnote 11 as needed

    Amend Footnote 12: Praefects are included in these stipulations only when there is such a time period where none of the 3 Praefects are present or have given notice of extended absence, or any absence without notice places undue burden on any remaining praefects. Should a Curator be removed from office prematurely for any reason, either/both of their Censors may begin the next election process, and in the event they cannot, the duty shall fall to the Praefect(s).

    Add footnote if needed: Off topic and personal references in the Curia will be allowed, within reason, despite their outlining in the ToS as not being allowed, given the nature of the proceedings of the Curia.


    Item 2: Referrals

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Referrals will remain largely the same as they were before, with some slight differences in process due to the passing of the Ostrakon amendment (which this attempts to integrate but not fully implement in the same way) and the presence of Praefects in the process.

    Staff referrals at the very least shall be the same, with any infraction incurred by a citizen generating an automatic referral. The difference now however will be that the Praefects serve as the judging body for the process, with the Primus Praefect assuming the same role the Curator used to, and the two other Praefects the roles of the Censors. Seeing as Censors were just an elected Curial position for just this sort of referral process, moving the role to the Praefects to do the same job, still as the same citizens, with the added duty of knowing, understanding and implementing proper ToS enforcement and Moderation standards, the referral process is largely unchanged in the essence of what it aims to achieve.

    Citizen referrals will also happen in largely the same way, except will be PMed to any Praefect (preferably the Primus Praefect since they still hold the tiebreaker/Curator role, but we are not worried about the seniority, anonymity or extreme formality here anymore because we shouldn't be, so any Praefect is allowed to accept a Citizen Referral). The citizen initiating the referrals must also make clear their desire for either a private referral to be reviewed by the praefects, or a public referral in the method of the Ostrakon. Either way, the Praefects are tasked with ensuring that the referral has both substantial grounds, evidence, and merit to go through either process in the first place. Some training/guidelines will likely be provided to define what exactly constitutes "merit" in these cases, however we believe keeping enough grey area is still important here as we can never control fully who is in the office nor define any and every situation, and want Praefect discretion to not be clouded by too much word of law. It should be enough to be able to tell what is a worthy case with justifiable grounds to be presented, what is nothing more than personal vendetta, what may be a legitimate misunderstanding of rules or one party, or anything else of the sort.

    If the Praefects collectively decide the referral has merit, the process will continue as it did before (there will be no formal vote for further action or dismiss, it shall be discussed briefly at Praefect discretion and moved on from there without a poll). All votes for suspension of rank will happen in the same way, with the Primus Praefect holding the tiebreaking vote if needed. All timeframes for suspension of ranks shall be doubled from previous values. Ostrakons will be posted by the Praefect publicly, as outlined in the Ostrakon amendment.

    If at any point the Preafects collectively agree the referral process is being abused or misused consistently by any member, they may on their own accord initiate a referral for that citizen. In this case, the Curator may preside and give input, but no vote. Any referral initiated in this manner for abuse of the system will result in a minimum revocation of citizenship for 2 months should it pass.

    Constitutional Syntax Changes
    Section III - Praefects, Censors and Magistrates
    Article I. The Triumvirate and ReferralsCitizens are expected to behave in an exemplary manner and can be referred1 to the Triumvirate Praefects for a review of their behaviour and possible disciplinary action.
    Such a Referral is initiated automatically by Moderation for infractions incurred, or discretionally by Citizens2 for behaviour considered unbecoming. Praefects may decide if a referral is frivolous. The Triumvirate If a referral has merit, the Praefects request a defence3 from the referred and decides4 whether5 and which6 disciplinary action is to be taken.7 The Triumvirate consists of:
    The Censors Praefects- Who discuss and vote on every Referral. The Primus Praefect holds the tiebreaking vote if necessary.
    The Curator and Censors - Who may discuss Referrals, but only votes in the case of a tie.hold no vote, except in the case of infractions issued on citizens in a Curial post, where they will act in place of Praefects.
    Hexagon Council members - Who may choose to participate.
    Members of the Triumvirate Praefects, censors and the consul must recuse themselves in their own referrals or any case of a non-curial infraction they may have issued elsewhere as a site moderator..8

    If a Citizen is not satisfied with the result of their Referral, they may request a public appeal. The appeal will be discussed and decided in the Curia.9 The result is binding and is not subject to further appeal.

    Amend Footnotes: Any mention of Curator and Censors in the process to properly reflect Praefects role in the process instead

    Amend Footnote 6:
    Suspension of Citizenship for 2 weeks 1 month
    Suspension of Citizenship for 1 month 2 months
    Suspension of Citizenship for 2 months 4 months
    Suspension of Citizenship for 3 months 6 months
    Suspension of Citizenship for 4 months

    Revocation of Citizenship

    Amend Footnote 7: All citizen initiated referrals processed as Ostrakons are obviously public; citizen initiated private referrals may be kept private or public at request of the member. Staff referrals are kept private by default, as they deal with infractions, except at the member's request.

    Amend Footnote 8: If a Praefect must recuse themselves, the Curator may step into their voting position. Praefects may not recuse themselves from any staff initiated referral (except one against themselves or one they were involved in directly as a site moderator), only citizen initiated referrals. If at any point the majority of Praefects must recuse themselves (2/3 Praefects), the entire process is referred to the Curator and Censors.

    Amend/add footnote, or keep in non-footnote syntax: except in the case of infractions issued on citizens in a Curial post, where they will take place in the stead of the Praefects for the entire process.


    Item 3: Censors and Curator's Assistants

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Since the Censor's old job of managing referrals is now in the hands of the Praefects, they will instead retain the name and distinction as the official Curator's Assistants instead. They will assume all duties of the Curator's Assistants as before, and this essentially just moves the badge and name over for assistants to have, and the Curator badge to be strictly reserved for the Curator only. They will no longer be an elected position, but chosen by the Curator, as assistants have been. It is recommended however that the Curator pay attention to those with little experience and wanting to gain more, to help build confidence and ability in the position for future applicants to the Curator position. There will remain no limit to the number of Censors in this regard, though it is advised to keep the number modest as well (2-3 on average is probably a good amount).

    These syntax changes are reflected in other areas of this proposal, as they affect multiple parts of the constitution, but aside from the changes to the referral process for who does what, there is little other syntax amendment required for this (that I have noticed, though thorough as I hope I am, I am not perfect either...well, only on Tuesdays at least). If anyone sees this must be reflected in the Constitution elsewhere beyond where the other parts of this proposal already change, let me know.


    Item 4: Opening the Prothalamos to all members

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    In an effort to "shake things up a bit" so to speak...let's open up the Prothalamos to all members of the site.

    I know, I know, but Hader we already said no to that like so many times man!

    While this will not likely result in a huge influx of members wanting to propose this and that, it will effectively at the very least break down the barrier of commentary between non-citizens and citizens to the point where a more fluid discussion is at least possible between them on matters that can go to a vote. In tandem with a more strict approach to Curial Moderation and citizenship behavior standards, and the Liaison office (see Item 6), there should theoretically be little issue with this sort of melding of minds and any potential influx of new ideas, discussion, etc. Citizens will still be the only ones allowed to vote, and hopefully be allowed a clearer and more direct view of other members views on certain proposals, decisions, and anything else brought up. This may not necessarily incentivize too many more members to care to get citizenship just for the vote, but at the same time can at least help current citizens a clearer and bigger picture of what Curial proposals may do for the site and for others and not just themselves. And if we are really lucky, perhaps more people actually will give a darn about participating in a meaningful way and becoming citizens.

    I know this will still probably be opposed despite its place within this overall proposal. I'd really like everyone of that mind though to really reconsider this and be willing to give it a shot, if not be persuaded to support it anyways. Personally, I don't see enough out of the Curia's current citizenship that says we are doing a stellar job at getting non citizens to want to contribute as citizens, and more so that any newcomers we do get (as well as many of the most active curialists these days) are almost always already involved in staff in one or multiple branches, or have been in the recent past. We're just not doing good at getting that "new blood" into the Curia for their ideas and input as well as keeping them around and making their citizenship meaningful to not just themselves but the site as a whole. So let's break down this particular barrier and see what happens, and I firmly believe now that it will help more than hinder the status of citizenship and what it means to this site, especially if we work through this entire process and evolve it over time.

    Technically speaking, this will all be achieved by moving the Prothalamos outside of the Curia main forum to facilitate proper posting permissions for more than just citizens. The Prothalamos will still be considered part of the Curia and Capitol, and thus subject to Moderation by the Praefects. Any non citizens that may incur ToS violations while within the Prothalamos will be subject to Curial Moderation by the Praefects the same as any citizens, except no referral process is in place and instead anything done there by Praefects in the way of moderation will be eventually referred to Staff Moderation for proper handling, and forum bans of non-citizens may be requested at any time by any Curial Officer.


    Item 5: Clarifying the Duties of the Curator

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    This mainly deals with the interpretation of what it means to be a "Local Moderator" of the Curia. Everywhere else on the site, Local Moderators (most commonly utilized in mod forums by the modders themselves) are mainly there as housekeeping for their own forum (i.e., closing and sticking threads). Beyond that, they are allowed a small amount of authority when it comes to editing and deleting other members posts, or any other moderator related action that could potentially have overlap with the ToS and staff moderation. Generally, allowing Local Moderators to close threads they deem off topic to their mod, editing other members posts for being off topic, or anything along those lines is allowed to happen without staff moderation intervention (as well as obvious cases of spambots or posting porn or anything that warrants immediate removal). Any clear and/or consistent ToS issues with any member is then referred to staff moderation for handling at that level.

    So let us clarify the Curator's role as a local moderator. There has never been an issue with their 'housekeeping' local moderator duties and powers, so that should be fine. When it comes to deleting, closing, or dealing with anything else though, is where the grey area was. However, with the addition of the Praefects as true moderation of the Curia, there will still exists this grey area to some degree. So the best clarification for the Curator as a local mod should be essentially the same way it is dealt with around the rest of the site. Any clear ToS violations should be reported to the Preafects (as well as staff moderation by extension) for dealing with, and only clearly off topic posts/threads, blatant spam or bad no-no posts or anything of that nature that benefits most from immediate action may be dealt with by the Curator in the capacity of a moderator. Additionally, any Curial specific threads (election debate/app threads, proposals, etc.) that may not have ToS violations but obvious need of some moderation (most likely in the form of off topic banter, among other things) still fall mostly under Local Moderator duties, thus the Curator is well within their remit to moderate as appropriate, especially where such things are not likely to incur disciplinary action against a member. In the event of that grey area being rearing its ugly head, the Curator and Praefects are expected to work together to sort it out and come to the reasonable conclusion. If absolutely necessary, Moderation Hex is also allowed here to step in and give input, and if it comes to it, a final determination/veto on a decision.

    This does not necessarily need an amendment I think, though if we wish to add the bolded bit as a footnote in the constitution, that should more than suffice, and we can finally put this debate about what it means to be a local moderator to rest.


    Item 7: Forum Re-shuffling

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    In order to both clear up some forum space and more appropriately categorize the rest, let's move these forums around a bit:

    "The Capitol" Category Renamed to "Site Administration"

    -->Prothalamos (because you're going to let this whole thing pass so this part happens...right?)
    -->Questions and Suggestions
    -->Infraction Appeals and Discussion
    -->Official TWC Store (Subject to temporary removal, but its place will be here if brought back)
    -->TWC Cemetery (should be private now, if and when it is ready to be cleaned up and perhaps made public again, it may go here, this is no guarantee for now though)

    Staff forums will also be slightly reshuffled, with the only major change being the Technical Bazaar will be made private and public Tech questions we are fine rerouting to the Q&S instead, where they are likely to get more visibility and quicker answers. Staff forums I will not mention here as those are seen only by staff members anyways, so their organization is entirely dependent on what part of staff one may or may not be in, so there is no point in getting too in depth about their reorganizing.

    "Pride is not the antidote of Shame but its source, humility is its only true antidote." - Iroh

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    @ Elfdude, I don't give a for your condescending appraisal of my strategy. You haven't addresses a single point because I think you're unable to. I'm embarrassed for you honestly. Never has somebody so pathetically claimed the moral high ground. Piss poor debating, piss poor. I accept your surrender. Absolutely pathetic. Phalera my ass.
    When all else fails insult your opponents.

  2. #2
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66

    Under patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader.

  3. #3
    Van Zandt's Avatar pulvis et umbra
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66

    Brave Helios, wake up your steeds...
    Bring the Votes the Curia needs .....

  4. #4
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66


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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66

    The Armenian Issue

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    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

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    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66


  7. #7
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar Bearded Moderation
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66

    I have done my duty. Voted

  8. #8
    StealthFox's Avatar Consensus Achieved
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Order 66

    The amendment passes 19-5-0. Closing and moving to the archives.

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