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Thread: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

  1. #41
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It's rather interesting that this thread is not based on the actual text of the Green New Deal but random online articles. For example the opening post quotes this:


    But the relevant section from the deal (section 1 H) says this:


    The phrase "air travel" doesn't even exist in the text. There is quite a change in language there as well. Of course, the opening posters jumps on the flight between California and New York. There is nothing in the GND that says that will be combated, but the flights and bus trips between Boston and New York? Definitely. There are about 70 flights a day between those two cities and god knows how many bus trips (one website that's not called god found about 118 for a day). It almost takes the same amount of time to fly between them compared to if you took the train when you add the necessary waiting/security/checking times. Buses take longer depending on traffic. With faster, higher capacity and more efficient train network you can easily cut out a great portion of those air travelers. There are many routes in USA just like that. What's wrong with calling for that? Nothing.
    They mention eliminating air travel in their FAQ https://apps.npr.org/documents/docum...n-New-Deal-FAQ
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    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It's rather interesting that this thread is not based on the actual text of the Green New Deal but random online articles....
    But but she is a socialist POVG. Anything that might upset the oligarchy is evil and has to attacked in hysterical fashion since it might get in the way of eliminating Social Security and reestablishing debtors prison and I suppose indentured service. Just remember the super rich will be able to afford fleeing to Antarctica - because they are the good and beautiful.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  3. #43
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    They mention eliminating air travel in their FAQ https://apps.npr.org/documents/docum...n-New-Deal-FAQ
    Its a toss of line and given the placement next to farting cows would seem to have been a bit of humor. And frankly more mass transit on ground powered by electric would be awesome over short hop air travel in the US which is a nightmare.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Its a toss of line and given the placement next to farting cows would seem to have been a bit of humor. And frankly more mass transit on ground powered by electric would be awesome over short hop air travel in the US which is a nightmare.
    You're giving her too much leeway. Everything in that document should be taken at face value.



  5. #45

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    They mention eliminating air travel in their FAQ https://apps.npr.org/documents/docum...n-New-Deal-FAQ
    Not in the bill, and the part the opening poster stresses by using all capital letters that ALL air travel will be replaced with high speed rail is not in either of the documents. Even the statement in the FAQ document simply points at a general focus. The fact that such a simple point has been distorted to attack her shows how little merit her opposition has.
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #46

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Lol so she completely backtracks on paying those unwilling to work:

    Her advisor, Robert Hockett, gets on Tucker Carlson and claims that:

    she’s actually tweeted it out to laugh at it. If you look at her latest tweets it seems that apparently some Republicans put it out there


    She retweets the encounter on her Twitter, even though the Metadata on the PDF shows it was made by her chief of staff, and was posted on HER website.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ite-is-a-fake/

    So let’s summarize the defenses so far:
    1) lol did u even read it
    2) They didn’t really mean get rid of airplanes, and so what if they did! Let’s build billions of dollar over budget trains to nowhere (California) everywhere!
    3) Republicans made that up

    I bet Pelosi is livid
    Last edited by tgoodenow; February 10, 2019 at 03:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    That's kind of my point. I was referring to the reason why she's getting so much attention from right wing pundits. I don't think it's fear, I think it's a potentially effective strategy to paint her as representative of the mainstream of the Democratic party. More centrist Dems in the legislature won't get behind her ideas, because they want to get reelected, but they won't publicly criticize her, because they want to get reelected. Hence they don't have a very good defense against being associated with her, as the "future of the democratic party".

    As far as her particular future, who knows. Politicians who "energize the base" aren't necessarily those that appeal to swing voters. Trump appealed to a segment of swing voters while alienating a lot of the Republican base. I suspect the base mostly just voted for Trump anyway as a vote against Hillary. Ocasio-Cortez won in a district that is entirely comprised of the eastern part of the Bronx and a piece of north-central Queens, two boroughs in New York city, where Republican candidates typically receive less than 15% of the vote, if they bother to run at all.
    Given you've recently elected a reality TV star who only energised a tiny neglected base no one knew was red I think the usual rules are out the window (frankly they were gone when the black guy both took and left office with his skull intact). A fiesty latina stereotype might be the next United States' Top Chief Executive by snagging the Brooklyn 99 constituency, while keeping everyone else home through sheer depression.

    Kidding aside neither party is looking particularly sharp in their recent presidential choices or ability to tear down opponents: weren't a substantial minority of Republicans openly against Trump when he won? Clinton was beaten IMHO by her own coldness and the FBI more than anything. Trump never expected the win, he didn't even have a speech written.

    Not sure if this kid's perceived stupidity makes her particularly vulnerable. Maybe her race isn't an issue. You never know, it might not even matter that's she's a woman.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    I never understood this obsession some people have against nuclear power. It is as far as I know one of the safest ways to make electricity. Does the US have no confidence in its ability to regulate the energy industry? Because provided that nuclear power is used responsibly and regulated properly I will prefer it over coal without even thinking twice about it.

    And besides speaking of Green Deals and whatnot, people often bring Chernobyl up as an example to how harmful nuclear power is... but has anyone seen how green Chernobyl is now? What better way to turn an area green than shutting down human activity.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I never understood this obsession some people have against nuclear power. It is as far as I know one of the safest ways to make electricity. Does the US have no confidence in its ability to regulate the energy industry? Because provided that nuclear power is used responsibly and regulated properly I will prefer it over coal without even thinking twice about it.

    And besides speaking of Green Deals and whatnot, people often bring Chernobyl up as an example to how harmful nuclear power is... but has anyone seen how green Chernobyl is now? What better way to turn an area green than shutting down human activity.
    Nuclear power in USA is problematic. They have not solved the storage issue and provided no effort to solve it. France does it very well. I'm all for nuclear power. We can't reach the stars without advancing it. However, I much prefer France build nuclear power plants compared to USA building them.
    The Armenian Issue

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    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    So about their document that advocates free housing, healthcare, food, jobs for all, education for all. It seems like not even socialism, it just looks like Communism.

    A) They realised their FAQ was such a mess they took it down and went into damage control mode.

    B) They didn’t mean to have that part in, they didn’t mean to tell us they actually want that yet as part of a gradualist plan to implement socialism.

    A good video https://youtu.be/2NM6ftvc8-k
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

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    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    And how will they pay for it?

    By printing more money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    So about their document that advocates free housing, healthcare, food, jobs for all, education for all. It seems like not even socialism, it just looks like Communism.
    A) They realised their FAQ was such a mess they took it down and went into damage control mode.
    B) They didn’t mean to have that part in, they didn’t mean to tell us they actually want that yet as part of a gradualist plan to implement socialism.
    A good video https://youtu.be/2NM6ftvc8-k
    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    And how will they pay for it?
    By printing more money.
    It took you 6 minutes to realize how ridiculous your statement that I put in bold sounded?
    The Armenian Issue

  13. #53

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    What is do ridiculous about what Aexodus said? AOC's "program" seems to be quite similar to Maduro's policies in Venezuela.

  14. #54
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It took you 6 minutes to realize how ridiculous your statement that I put in bold sounded?
    What was ridiculous about it? I didn’t ‘realise’ anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

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    Alastor's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nuclear power in USA is problematic. They have not solved the storage issue and provided no effort to solve it. France does it very well. I'm all for nuclear power. We can't reach the stars without advancing it. However, I much prefer France build nuclear power plants compared to USA building them.
    But why is there a storage issue and a lack of effort to solve it? Besides the US could always hire French experts if indeed their methods are that far behind.

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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I never understood this obsession some people have against nuclear power. It is as far as I know one of the safest ways to make electricity. Does the US have no confidence in its ability to regulate the energy industry? Because provided that nuclear power is used responsibly and regulated properly I will prefer it over coal without even thinking twice about it.
    Done badly its a nightmare and I think people in the US realise how utterly corrupt the energy industry is. I agree with POVG, Sweden's nuclear industry is 100% meltdown free, I think France also has a good safety record but the US had Three Mile Island, toxic lakes in upstate New York etc. I think ordinary people are wary of government guarantees about safety, know the Flint water thing isn't nuclear but people there are being told the water is fine and they aren't believing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    And besides speaking of Green Deals and whatnot, people often bring Chernobyl up as an example to how harmful nuclear power is... but has anyone seen how green Chernobyl is now? What better way to turn an area green than shutting down human activity.
    Evil genie twisted somebody's wish?
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  17. #57

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Never interrupt your enemy as he (or in this case, she) makes a mistake.

    Cow farts and free money my dudes.

    Cow farts and free money.

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    Alastor's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Evil genie twisted somebody's wish?
    Well, the somebody discussed in this thread had not yet been born I believe. But when a nuclear meltdown is demonstrably better for the environment than humans it can give some strange ideas.

  19. #59
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It took you 6 minutes to realize how ridiculous your statement that I put in bold sounded?
    You would have been persecuted as a Left Communist or leftist dissenter for spouting such views in a marxist country.
    Free everything and abolishing money is trying to jump to communism in one step, it is the utopia that a society can produce what it needs without a profit-motive. Marxists would say you need Socialism first and develop the productive forces, freeing the individual from the necessity of work.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    You would have been persecuted as a Left Communist or leftist dissenter for spouting such views in a marxist country.
    Free everything and abolishing money is trying to jump to communism in one step, it is the utopia that a society can produce what it needs without a profit-motive. Marxists would say you need Socialism first and develop the productive forces, freeing the individual from the necessity of work.
    Nope. That's a lie that people tell to comfort themselves in case the community rises up as a whole. People want to rule. They like that people that are less fortunate are left behind. They hate it when they're not snowflakes. I don't really care if education and health care being free is communism. People should be able to have access to basic needs. To equate such ideas with making everything free shows how little merit your position has. You are forced to make stuff up.
    The Armenian Issue

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