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Thread: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The healthcare system does however profit massively it has to be said from America, where most of the innovation is taking place.
    Once again, a non sequitur. The cost of procedures in the US is higher than in other countries per patient. This seems to be because they are monetised, rather than socialised.

    The point about top end discoveries is not relevant as the US was a world leader in many fields before Ford turned the US health system into a privatised milking machine. Events like the infamous Pharma-Bro price hike on life saving medicine make clear the down side of this rapacious system.

    This kid seems to be offering "less of the same", just like Trump did. I imagine like Trump she's full of crap and in service to Billionaires, if she fails to remain in office maybe she's sincere. Bernie has managed to keep his seat, they might make an unusual Presidential ticket.
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  2. #82

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The nordic model is not socialist
    Then neither are what Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez proposes as vast majority of her proposals are a reality in Scandinavian countries.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The healthcare system does however profit massively it has to be said from America, where most of the innovation is taking place.
    This is a myth. European countries provide a similar contribution to drug innovation. In reality, drug innovation is proportional to a nation's wealth.
    Pharmaceutical innovation is an international enterprise. Although the United States is an important contributor to pharmaceutical innovation, we found that more than 20 countries contributed to the development of the 288 NMEs with patents at the time of approval. More than 171 companies were involved in the development of these NMEs, and the vast majority of companies were multinationals with facilities located in more than 2 countries. We also found that the United Kingdom, Switzerland, Belgium, and a few other countries innovated proportionally more than their contribution to the global GDP or prescription drug spending, whereas Japan, Spain, Australia, and Italy innovated less.

    In contrast with the United States, all other countries investigated had instituted at least 1 form of drug pricing regulation.1 Critics of drug price regulation argue that free market pricing strategies and higher prices in the United States are instrumental to innovation.20,21 One might therefore expect the United States to be the most innovative given that it is the only country with a predominantly unregulated pharmaceutical market. However, US pharmaceutical innovation appeared to be roughly proportional to its national wealth and prescription drug spending. Our data suggest that the United States is important but not disproportionate in its contribution to pharmaceutical innovation. Interestingly, some countries with direct price control, profit control, or reference drug pricing appeared to innovate proportionally more than their contribution to the global GDP or prescription drug spending.
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  3. #83
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Don't worry liberals, Ocasio Cortez won't be the only one adhering to MMT junk economics, Mario Draghi of the European Central Bank is flirting with it too, masking the systemic failure of the Eurozone with free money.

    It's like the whole world found a magic money maker and thought all problems would be solved, like Laurel & Hardy.
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  4. #84
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Don't worry liberals, Ocasio Cortez won't be the only one adhering to MMT junk economics, Mario Draghi of the European Central Bank is flirting with it too, masking the systemic failure of the Eurozone with free money.

    It's like the whole world found a magic money maker and thought all problems would be solved, like Laurel & Hardy.
    ...in case you hadn't noticed, laissez faire US policies have caused a massive global financial crisis in 2007 that has shaken every inhabited continent, and the decidedly interventionist response transferred trillions from taxpayers to a few wealthy moguls. The US presidents since have failed to remedy the causes. You think an alternative is laughable? The present state of affairs is a nightmare.
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  5. #85

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The healthcare system does however profit massively it has to be said from America, where most of the innovation is taking place.
    What articles like these miss, is that while United States has more medical innovation than any other country, it also has a far larger economy, than any other country.

    For example, this picture right here.



    Doesn't tell you that USA also has a GDP that's almost 6 times greater than Germany's. It also doesn't tell you about the huge role that the NIH plays in medical innovation in the United States.

    In the same way that Apple won't tell you about how instrumental DARPA was in creating a large portion of the technology that went into your iPhone...

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    ...in case you hadn't noticed, laissez faire US policies have caused a massive global financial crisis in 2007 that has shaken every inhabited continent, and the decidedly interventionist response transferred trillions from taxpayers to a few wealthy moguls. The US presidents since have failed to remedy the causes. You think an alternative is laughable? The present state of affairs is a nightmare.
    Laissez Faire - Free Money is a false dichotomy, i believe there are better alternatives. Why don't you tackle Wall Str. privileges or the banks which got rescued?
    A bank which prints massive amounts of money and devalues the savings of everyone is hardly just, it also doesn't create jobs.
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  7. #87

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Laissez Faire - Free Money is a false dichotomy, i believe there are better alternatives. Why don't you tackle Wall Str. privileges or the banks which got rescued?
    A bank which prints massive amounts of money and devalues the savings of everyone is hardly just, it also doesn't create jobs.
    Printing money does not devalue savings.

    EDIT:

    Apologies, I meant to say, printing money does not automatically devalue savings.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Why don't you tackle Wall Str. privileges or the banks which got rescued?
    Who would do that? Politicians? They need funding you know, guess who provides that.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    In the same way that Apple won't tell you about how instrumental DARPA was in creating a large portion of the technology that went into your iPhone...
    Seems someone else was also exposed to Mariana Mazzucato's content.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

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  10. #90

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    Seems someone else was also exposed to Mariana Mazzucato's content.
    U got me. I own 3 of her books, but Im a little sad we dont talk about Europe’s economies as much. I recently re read Stiglitz’s Euro.

  11. #91
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Global warming hysteria is a terrible thing considering how much is distracts the population from the ever growing wealth inequality.

    People cannot afford to pay for things like that when the wealth ends up in the hands of a few. The fewer who have wealth to spare, the fewer who can choose to make differences.
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  12. #92

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post

    Doesn't tell you that USA also has a GDP that's almost 6 times greater than Germany's. It also doesn't tell you about the huge role that the NIH plays in medical innovation in the United States.
    The most amusing thing about the innovative NIH is the people that know nothing about it. There were probably thousands of people that loved the 35 day shutdown but didn't realize that NIH had to postpone dozens of innovative surgeries that no hospital would dare handle themselves because the only people that are allowed to work during a shutdown are the nurses caring for the patients.
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  13. #93
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Laissez Faire - Free Money is a false dichotomy,
    I'm not offering it as a any kind of dichotomy, I'm offering it as an example of failed policies. Did you mean free money for corporations or people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    i believe there are better alternatives.
    Apparently so does she. If its scaring the swamp maybe she deserves a crack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Why don't you tackle Wall Str. privileges or the banks which got rescued?
    Why don't you? I'm not a US citizen or running for office. FWIW i'd like the politicans corporations boards and executives responsible for the GFC gaoled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    A bank which prints massive amounts of money and devalues the savings of everyone is hardly just, it also doesn't create jobs.
    The current system ha sprinted money for incompetent companies, and turned a lot of full time jobs into low paid casual labour. You are not painting her policies any worse than the current state of play.
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  14. #94
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    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Money is worth nothing of its own, it's just pretty coloured paper. Might as well us it as toilet paper or wallpaper.
    Money to the people:


    It's the creating people behind it that give it a use-value for exchange, labor and capital making goods. The Chinese Yuan has a good future, because the chinese dominate as producers and trader of goods.
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  15. #95

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    U got me. I own 3 of her books, but Im a little sad we dont talk about Europe’s economies as much. I recently re read Stiglitz’s Euro.
    With me was more of a powerpoint on mazzucato. I also have Stiglitz's Euro on my bookshelf yet to read, but other books recurrently appear to read instead. Also have gone through plenty euro-crisis related books it doesn't feel that new.
    When I have time I'll try to look into Keineth and Rogoff books even if out of curiosity. Dambisa Moyo is interesting alternative PoV too.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

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  16. #96

    Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Baffling Idiotic "Green New Deal," and why it will harm efforts to combat Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    With me was more of a powerpoint on mazzucato. I also have Stiglitz's Euro on my bookshelf yet to read, but other books recurrently appear to read instead. Also have gone through plenty euro-crisis related books it doesn't feel that new.
    When I have time I'll try to look into Keineth and Rogoff books even if out of curiosity. Dambisa Moyo is interesting alternative PoV too.
    Hope you're reading some mainstream as well. Porter, is probably the most centrist economist that I read. Probably because he tends to stay away from demagoguery. Krugman and his camp is pretty important to keep track of as well as far as mainstream thought goes. Imo, you have to know, understand, and even agree with the primary mainstream arguments before dipping into some more radical stuff.

    I had a hard time reading Piketty's Capital. I still don't understand it very well nor am I inclined to agree with everything he says in there. I keep telling myself to read it again, but it's gathering more dust on my bookshelf, sadly.

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