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Thread: Congress Comes Together At Last!

  1. #21
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    The wars of the past do not in any way justify the treatment of the Palestinians. You could go centuries back and cite medieval europeans progroms on the jews, but that has zero relevance on the present-day Middle East and the Israel-Palestine conflict. That the british promised both a independent Israel and Palestine had worse consequences.

    Egypt has acknowledged Israel since the Peace Treaty of 1979, Jordan since 1994, there has to be a peace settlement with Lebanon and Syria.
    Israel doesn't fear its neighbors (otherwise they wouldn't provoke them), the arabs fear Israel and the humiliation of muslim holy sites under jewish control.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Maybe Israel should stop perpetual warfare, a constant state of siege and economic blockade of the Gaza strip?
    One side can't unilaterally end a war while the other continues fighting. There is no siege, but ending the blockade would only lead to greater loss of life. Preventing rockets from entering Gaza causes a lot less damage than destroying them while they're being fired from urban areas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #23

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    The wars of the past do not in any way justify the treatment of the Palestinians. You could go centuries back and cite medieval europeans progroms on the jews, but that has zero relevance on the present-day Middle East and the Israel-Palestine conflict. That the british promised both a independent Israel and Palestine had worse consequences.

    Egypt has acknowledged Israel since the Peace Treaty of 1979, Jordan since 1994, there has to be a peace settlement with Lebanon and Syria.
    Israel doesn't fear its neighbors (otherwise they wouldn't provoke them), the arabs fear Israel and the humiliation of muslim holy sites under jewish control.
    Show me a muslim holy site that has not been protected by the Israelis, or a christian one for that matter.

    The Palestinians themselves advocate for the destruction of Israel, have you read the hamas charter?

  4. #24
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    The Hamas wanted a islamic Palestine, the Zionist wanted a Greater Israel. You can either have a two-state solution or one conquering the other.
    Ismail Haniyeh of the Hamas said he would accept a two-state solution with the 1967 border.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Israel had plenty of oil when this arrangement between the US and Israel started. Israel was in possession of oil and natural gas reserves worth more than all the aid the US has ever given to Israel, but the US convinced them to give it back to Egypt. The US paid for a degree of peace in the Middle East in order to bring all the belligerent parties securely within the US sphere of influence and out of the USSR's. That's why annual aid to Jordan and Egypt is always roughly equal to the annual aid to Israel, it's all part of the agreement.

    Israel doesn't actually receive money from the US. Nearly all the money allotted to aid for Israel stays in the US. It goes to US arms manufacturers. The remainder goes to joint research & development projects - the US funds the research, the Israelis mostly carry it out and test it in real life combat situations, and the US retains rights to the technologies that are developed.

    What do you think the US gets for its 3.2 billion to Israel compared to its roughly equivalent 3 billion to Egypt and Jordan? Israel isn't even the country that receives the most aid from the US. I guess you could argue by some rationale that Afghanistan deserves the 5.7 billion annually, but then the US isn't getting much for it. How about the 3.7 billion to Iraq? Unlike most allies, the US doesn't spend money to directly defend Israel. For example, the US spends something like 5.5 billion annually defending South Korea and Japan, but of course we all know that's also about projecting power. Same with the aid the US dishes out in the Middle East, including to Israel.

    Source
    What exactly is "this arrangement"? After Kennedy got ganked mysteriously soon after questioning what you guys were doing in Dimona and trying to get early AIPAC to register as a foreign agency, Johnson started "selling" israel arms in 1965, including tanks and jet fighters. This wasn't because we needed the money but, in the Johnson administration's words, because "Arab knowledge that they could not win an arms race against Israel should contribute long-term to the damping down of the Arab-Israeli dispute." So israel was indisputably being given advantageous treatment before they tried stealing the Sinai, and that treatment probably contributed to their success over the retard arabs in '67. It is extremely disingenuous to imply that giving up theoretical oil revenue israel might have enjoyed somehow makes us square, especially since israel was already hanging off our tit before they tried stealing that oil.

    The idea that israel doesn't receive money from the US is bs. Even just accounting for money we know about- not Pentagon black budgets, money laundered by israeli dual-citizens, and vast sums fleeced from dumbass evangelical sheep- just the money in the recently passed bill, the argument israel isn't leeching our money is typical pilpul. If I run a donut shop and you come in and steal money from the register and then use that money to buy my donuts, I'm still robbed. So the arms industry is guilty of colluding with israel to rob the American tax-payer to give israel effectively free guns. Wow, thanks greatest ally.

    Furthermore, aid disbursed to countries like Egypt and Jordan that serve as bribes to ensure they play nice with israel is effectively more aid to israel. Aid to iraq is directly the fault of israel for shilling us into invading the place. The cost of implementing israel's Yinon plan for them has cost us trillions of dollars, to say nothing of the cost in blood, for absolutely squat in return. Well, I guess the MIC made a bundle. I wonder what the prevalence of israelis is among their big stockholders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Chekist propaganda probably played a role as well.
    The Cheka is a perfect example of a golem. Around the time of the Holodomor, according to Solzhenitsyn 2/3rds of the Kiev Cheka were israeli. Then the golem turned on the rabbi. According to this guy at least, who is a CIA spook/defector. Today's twitter about AIPAC thanks to that somali House Rep is the early signs of another golem turning on its rabbi.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; February 12, 2019 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Continuity.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Ismail Haniyeh of the Hamas said he would accept a two-state solution with the 1967 border.
    Nah, he said he would accept the creation of a Palestinian State along the "1967 borders" for the sake of the Palestinian unity deal that fell through.

    Head of the Hamas political bureau, Ismail Haniyeh, reiterated that his movement supported the establishment of a Palestinian state in line with the 1967 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital without recognizing Israel while maintaining the resistance as a strategic option for liberating the Palestinian territories.

    Speaking at the National Security Conference in Gaza and Lebanon, Haniyeh said: "While we are not opposed to the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital, on the basis of the 1967 territories, we refuse settlements and we adhere to our strategic choice not to recognize Israel.”

    In his speech, Haniyeh called for the need to consolidate national unity, achieve reconciliation, restore accord and facilitate all factors of strength for Palestinians, stressing the need for holding presidential and legislative elections and forming a government of national unity.

    The Hamas official said that “a common national and political program should be reached,” in which the interim situation and the strategic situation would be combined, in addition to dealing with pending issues while maintaining strategic options.
    Source

    This was reported as some ground breaking development, but it wasn't even a new position.

    From 2008:

    Clare Short, who served in the cabinet of former British prime minister Tony Blair, asked Haniyeh to repeat his offer. He said the Hamas government had agreed to accept a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders and to offer Israel a long-term hudna, or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights.
    In Islamist terms, a hudna is a temporary cessation of hostilities for the purpose of regrouping or gaining an advantage. Naturally it's in Hamas' interest to agree to Israel ceding strategically advantageous ground and ceasing to inhibit their military buildup until such time Hamas decides to renew hostilities. What Haniyeh agreed to was a two step solution.

    It is ideologically impossible for him to compromise:

    The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?

    This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement...

    There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
    Of course he could betray the principles of his movement for the sake of expediency, but then such hypocrisy will simply strengthen more radical Islamist movements who will continue the fight. In other words, any peace agreement with Hamas is worth less than the paper it's written on. Some form of agreement with the Palestinian Authority is possible, but then they will likely need to be propped up since they will be seen as corrupt puppets of foreign interests who sold Palestine out.

    Neither Palestinians nor Israelis believe there will actually be peace, for the most part. Their participation in the so-called "peace process" is largely a means of political maneuver in the eyes of foreign audiences. Which is not to say that there aren't many on both sides who who be happy with a peace agreement, just that they are well aware that there is no overlap in what the two sides would find minimally acceptable terms.

    The Palestinian issue is becoming less of a strategic concern for the US as Arab regimes allied with the US are building closer ties with Israel and beginning to lose patience with the Palestinians themselves. As we can see, all the hysteria around Trump recognizing Israel's capital as being where it literally is amounted to nothing. Every deal the Palestinians are offered will be worse than the last, but I suspect they will continue to refuse them.

    Meanwhile:

    The Gallup Poll showed that 74% of the US public views Israel favorably, the highest level since 1991, while 23% have a negative view of the country. The situation regarding the Palestinians is flipped, with 21% viewing the Palestinians Authority favorably, and 71% unfavorably.

    The poll also showed that twice as many Americans believe the US should place more pressure on the Palestinians to solve the conflict (50%) than on Israel (27%).
    Quote Originally Posted by Caduet View Post
    What exactly is "this arrangement"? After Kennedy got ganked mysteriously soon after questioning what you guys were doing in Dimona and trying to get early AIPAC to register as a foreign agency, Johnson started "selling" israel arms in 1965, including tanks and jet fighters. This wasn't because we needed the money but, in the Johnson administration's words, because "Arab knowledge that they could not win an arms race against Israel should contribute long-term to the damping down of the Arab-Israeli dispute." So israel was indisputably being given advantageous treatment before they tried stealing the Sinai, and that treatment probably contributed to their success over the retard arabs in '67. It is extremely disingenuous to imply that giving up theoretical oil revenue israel might have enjoyed somehow makes us square, especially since israel was already hanging off our tit before they tried stealing that oil.
    Johnson sold weapons to the Jordanians as well. The amount he sold to Israel was hardly comparable to the amount of weapons the Soviets were providing the Egyptians and Syrians, but the former was certainly related to the latter. This is entirely consistent with the explanation I and others have already given for the development of the strategic relationship.

    Although the implication that Kennedy was killed by the Jews is amusing, I hadn't heard that one before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #27

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    The Cold War is long over, US Israel lobby is not a myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee

    While you are busy arguing how terrible Nazi it is to criticise Israel, I can only think about the Palestianians who have to live in overcrowded ghettoes with lack of water, electricity, sanitation and medicine while the israelis are dumping garbage on their land, making it uninhabitable in the near future. That is the humanitarian crisis in the region and it is Israel's fault.
    I think the main issue here is that millions of Americans pay taxes, which are wasted on aid and assistance to a foreign state that has nothing to do with them.

  8. #28
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I think the main issue here is that millions of Americans pay taxes, which are wasted on aid and assistance to a foreign state that has nothing to do with them.
    Germany has a similar problem with donating Uboats to Israel, we have agreed to pay €540 millions alone for the acquisiton of 3 Dolphin-Class Uboats by the Israeli Navy, where they will undoubtedly be equipped with nuclear weapons and used against Iran. Why Germany does this? "The Federal Republic of Germany thinks it has a historical responsibility toward Israel".

    German-Israel relationship in a nutshell:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Mayer; February 12, 2019 at 07:37 AM.
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  9. #29

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I think the main issue here is that millions of Americans pay taxes, which are wasted on aid and assistance to a foreign state that has nothing to do with them.
    What percent of our budget do you think we spend on Foreign aid?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Germany has a similar problem with donating Uboats to Israel, we have agreed to pay €540 millions alone for the acquisiton of 3 Dolphin-Class Uboats by the Israeli Navy, where they will undoubtedly be equipped with nuclear weapons and used against Iran. Why Germany does this? "The Federal Republic of Germany thinks it has a historical responsibility toward Israel".

    German-Israel relationship in a nutshell:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Indeed, the concept of "historical responsibility" reeks of political insanity that has befallen many Western governments. But even German donations pale in comparison to billions of US taxpayer money that are wasted on direct aid to Israel and trillions on pro-Israeli foreign policy where US is dragged into pointless and unwinnable conflicts against sovereign countries that refuse to bow down to "best ally". If anything, if we view "historical responsibility" as legitimate concept, shouldn't Israel pay millions to US and Russia instead?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Johnson sold weapons to the Jordanians as well. The amount he sold to Israel was hardly comparable to the amount of weapons the Soviets were providing the Egyptians and Syrians, but the former was certainly related to the latter. This is entirely consistent with the explanation I and others have already given for the development of the strategic relationship.

    Although the implication that Kennedy was killed by the Jews is amusing, I hadn't heard that one before.
    Yea, and Hussein had to literally cry and threaten to also take soviet weaponry in DC in order to get the scraps he got. It should not have been so difficult to keep a literal monarch out of the communist sphere, but thanks to that albatross around our neck called israel, it was a real danger. This highlights the indirect burdens being israel's shabbos goy has placed on America. It's a better argument than "you owe us for making us give back the oil we stole" though, I'll give you that.

    And its not like murdering Western leaders who don't toe the line is something israelis would shy away from. Hell, Shamir even became Prime Minister for his hard work.

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    What percent of our budget do you think we spend on Foreign aid?
    SS, Medicare and defense spending being in the trillions doesn't make wasting billions (that we know about) on israel ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Huh? How is pointing out that US-Israeli relationship is one-sided (which it is objectively) in any way anti-semitic?
    literally anything that is in anyway critical of israel is officially anti-semetic. Idk if you seen the crapstorm over Ilhan Omar saying that AIPAC uses money to influence Congress (which AIPAC itself proudly boasts of) but it is incredibly enlightening. Trump calling on her to resign and Pelosi forcing her to apologize. Again, we can't get the two parties to agree on anything, except when it comes to grovelling for israel. You can say any lobby like the NRA, Saudis, Pharma, Wall St or whatever uses money to influence our government and everyone is just like "Yea, duh." Say the same thing baout isreal and hoo boy have you crossed a line. Suddenly you've stumbled upon an "anti-semitic trope". Its honestly pretty terrible optics for israel, but at least they got Omar to cuck out and apologize. Even AOC tarnished her "woke" rep by knuckling under for israel.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    ...
    Although the implication that Kennedy was killed by the Jews is amusing, I hadn't heard that one before.
    Everything_I_don't_like_is_a_Zionist_plot.jpeg

    Not as good as "no Jews died at the WTC on 9/11, the rabbis called them up the night before and told them not to go to work". That was a cracker, the fella that told me that one is a good guy but when he'son the high dose he gets pretty repellent I'm afraid.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  13. #33

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Not as good as "no Jews died at the WTC on 9/11, the rabbis called them up the night before and told them not to go to work".
    I remember hearing that one. That is some Gunpowder Plot b.s.

    Fun Fact: the first casualty of 9/11 was a Jewish Israeli/American.





    Okay I guess it's not really a "fun" fact.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    When it comes to denigrating a group, be it jews, gays, muslims, trans or whatever, facts are never important.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    When it comes to denigrating a group, be it jews, gays, muslims, trans or whatever, facts are never important.
    No groups are denigrated when it is pointed out that Israel is a liability for US.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Everything_I_don't_like_is_a_Zionist_plot.jpeg

    Not as good as "no Jews died at the WTC on 9/11, the rabbis called them up the night before and told them not to go to work". That was a cracker, the fella that told me that one is a good guy but when he'son the high dose he gets pretty repellent I'm afraid.
    israel has shown it is not only willing to murder Western leaders, but its populace will actively reward those who do with illustrious political careers. Folke Bernadotte (who hilariously helped liberate over a thousands israelis from the camps towards the end of ww2) was assassinated in a plot masterminded by future israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir, all because he had the temerity to be an impartial UN mediator in the newly-born arab-israeli conflict. Evidently, not conceding to all of israel's demands made him an anti-semitic bigot who deserved to die.

    israel has a record of supporting terrorists and engaging in terrorism itself, without suffering any sort of effective punishment for its behavior. if someone who is on israel's naughty list has an unfortunate accident, israel belongs on the suspect list by dint of its prior history alone.

    Idk anyone ever claiming no israelis died on 9/11 so not sure where that strawman came from. i will say lucky larry silverstein earned his nickname tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    *more IDF propaganda but at least this time tangentially related to someone else's strawman*
    guess israeli commandos aren't all they're hyped up to be huh.

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    When it comes to denigrating a group, be it jews, gays, muslims, trans or whatever, facts are never important.
    on the contrary, facts are of paramount importance, they're what i've been using this entire thread. feel free to dispute an argument. sumskilz sort-of did it so i know its not impossible. or continue clutching at pearls, i'm not picky about what ppl do in my threads.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; February 14, 2019 at 07:55 AM. Reason: For continuity

  17. #37

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    We applaud the overwhelming, bipartisan rejection of anti-Semitism and BDS by the House of Representatives today.

    The House affirmed 424-0 that it is in the national security interest of the United States to maintain strong bipartisan support for Israel, and to denounce and reject all attempts to delegitimize and deny Israel’s right to exist.

    The House also affirmed that it is in the national security interest of the United States to oppose boycotts against countries like Israel that are friendly to the U.S.


    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...-to-ilhan-omar

    In rare vote, House sends a message on anti-Semitism to Ilhan Omar

    The House on Wednesday unanimously passed a broad condemnation of anti-Semitism days after Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., received widespread criticism over her comments on Israel.

    The language, which does not mention Omar by name, was approved 424-0 using a legislature procedure that lets the minority party make a last-minute motion to change legislation just before it's passed. The procedure almost never works for the minority party, in part because the minority usually tries to make radical changes to the bill that the majority quickly rejects.

    On Wednesday, however, Republicans used the so-called "motion to recommit" vote to call for the addition of language to a resolution that states it is in the "national interests of the United States to combat anti-Semitism at home and abroad."

    "With an unfortunate rise in anti-Semitism and attempts to delegitimize Israel, the United States House of Representatives must emphasize the importance of combating anti-Semitism and reject all movements that deny Israel’s right to exist," the amendment states.

    The sponsor of the language, Rep. David Kustoff, R-Tenn., indicated the language was aimed at Omar, who has been criticized by both parties for comments they say amount to anti-Semitism.

    “This horrific anti-Semitic tone being taken by some Members of Congress must come to an end," Kustoff said. "The language I offered affirms the United States’ interest in combating anti-Semitism at home and abroad, something my colleagues on both sides of the aisle should and must support. I am proud to stand today in solidarity with my Jewish community as this hate has no place in our country."

    The House easily approved the proposal, marking the first time in several years that the motion to recommit worked.

    The move by GOP lawmakers came after they repeatedly called on House Democrats to remove Omar from her Foreign Affairs Committee assignment, an act they lack the power to do themselves.

    Omar was accused this week of peddling an anti-Semitic trope on Twitter that incorporated a slang reference to attack Jewish influence in politics. She apologized at the request of Democratic leaders, who publicly rebuked her.

    Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., had threatened to take steps against House members who make anti-Semitic remarks, but did not provide specifics.

  18. #38
    the_mango55's Avatar Reppin the Religious Left
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    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    So wait, can someone explain when Rep. Omar tried to delegitmize the state of Israel? I don't understand the insane conclusions that people are jumping to.

    Someone thinking that the AIPCA has too much influence on US government is obviously not antisemitism.

    It's like arguing that someone who thinks the US Dairy Lobby has too much influence is clearly a vegan.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    No groups are denigrated when it is pointed out that Israel is a liability for US.
    The point can be argued, and its worth arguing sensibly with facts. Sumskilz's points about "aid to Israel" actualling manifesting as porkbarreling for US domestic produces a valid counter to "money down the drain" ranting from other posters. Israel as a counter to Soviet and later Russian influence in the region is another strong point to make. The role of Christian (not Jewish) ideology in some politicians fixation with Middle Eastern wars is worth considering but has not been responded to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduet View Post
    israel has shown it is not only willing to murder Western leaders, but its populace will actively reward those who do with illustrious political careers. Folke Bernadotte (who hilariously helped liberate over a thousands israelis from the camps towards the end of ww2) was assassinated in a plot masterminded by future israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir, all because he had the temerity to be an impartial UN mediator in the newly-born arab-israeli conflict. Evidently, not conceding to all of israel's demands made him an anti-semitic bigot who deserved to die.

    israel has a record of supporting terrorists and engaging in terrorism itself, without suffering any sort of effective punishment for its behavior. if someone who is on israel's naughty list has an unfortunate accident, israel belongs on the suspect list by dint of its prior history alone....
    "Stern Gang terrorist murders UN representative therefore Mossad shot JFK". Puny proposition, your arguments fail as hard as Hitler's intellectually stunted and failed regime.

    You've repeated that point over and over on these boards, as if this act of terror proves all Jews for all time are murderers. Name one actual Western Head of State Mossad has killed. If not, you can retire that weary hobby horse, its carried quite enough garbage on your account.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  20. #40

    Default Re: Congress Comes Together At Last!

    ty for posting more evidence of israel's total dominance of our government.
    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    So wait, can someone explain when Rep. Omar tried to delegitmize the state of Israel? I don't understand the insane conclusions that people are jumping to. Someone thinking that the AIPCA has too much influence on US government is obviously not antisemitism. It's like arguing that someone who thinks the US Dairy Lobby has too much influence is clearly a vegan.
    nope, actually by even thinking about it as much as you have you stray perilously close to anti-semitism yourself. expect your swastika armband to show up in the mail any day now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The point can be argued, and its worth arguing sensibly with facts. Sumskilz's points about "aid to Israel" actualling manifesting as porkbarreling for US domestic produces a valid counter to "money down the drain" ranting from other posters. Israel as a counter to Soviet and later Russian influence in the region is another strong point to make. The role of Christian (not Jewish) ideology in some politicians fixation with Middle Eastern wars is worth considering but has not been responded to.
    except sumskilz's post is already countered. again, if i own a donut shop and sumskilz takes money out of my register to by my donuts, i'm still robbed. the israeli warmachine is subsidized by us and maybe a few dubiously american arms dealers make a shekel or two, but the American tax payer is left in the cold. of course, this doesn't even touch the trillions down the drain for iraq and other adventures that only benefited israel and some MIC warpigs.
    "Stern Gang terrorist murders UN representative therefore Mossad shot JFK". Puny proposition, your arguments fail as hard as Hitler's intellectually stunted and failed regime. You've repeated that point over and over on these boards, as if this act of terror proves all Jews for all time are murderers. Name one actual Western Head of State Mossad has killed. If not, you can retire that weary hobby horse, its carried quite enough garbage on your account.
    and this is literally the first time anyone ever responded to it. i guess repeating it multiple times finally gave you time to at least try to figure out an argument. Which just boils down to "because they weren't named mossad at the time it's ok". The fact is, israel is a terrorist state. this is proven without doubt by Bernadotte's assassination, the Lavon Affair (the operatives were actually given awards by the israeli state for their efforts in attempting to kill American and British civilians) and other times we have caught them red-handed. Keep in mind, these are only examples in which they have been busted that not even the most deluded israel-apologist can deny. israel's terrorism certainly expands just beyond those specific examples because they keep pulling this crap and they never face any real punishment for it. i mean, why wouldn't they do it if the self-proclaimed world police is going to give tacit approval even when israel is putting American citizens at risk? we just haven't caught them with as much damning evidence. israel is a confirmed repeat offender. for that alone they warrant suspicion. they are known to reward their terrorists. they have motive, the means and a history of similar crimes.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; February 14, 2019 at 08:09 AM. Reason: Continuity.

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