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Thread: Why corruption is legal in USA?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    The problem I think is not about how a person has accrued their wealth. People like Bill Gates, Alan Sugar, Karen Brady and James Dyson all earned their money. I hold some views that can be described as socialist, such as universal healthcare, but I do not believe in the redistribution of wealth fallacy.

    The problem is special interest groups funding politics and those politicians then being beholden more to the special interest group than the people who elected them to office.

  2. #22
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    I think if you search your thoughts, your "certain point" is somewhere really close to your own limit on what you are willing to invest in persuading your fellow citizens. For my part I am quite reluctant to place a limit on what my fellow citizens can do persuade others.
    I'm not. Because if to much in one way or another then it looks very much like bribery. Take median income and make some kind of determination based off that. What I do know is if even fairly securely employed Coast Guard families can be reduced to food banks after missing 2 paychecks they likely cannot spend much on 'money as political speech'.
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  3. #23
    AqD's Avatar (~‾▿‾)~
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    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    In US politicians take huge amounts of money by corporations before elections and the result is a type of "legal corruption". The result of this "legal bribing" is this
    How can you run a campaign without accepting funds? Do you expect politicians to pay for the campaigns themselves, like in ancient Roman republic? It wasn't less corrupt in any regard.

    Why would they care for you - for example, since you can contribute far less? But if you do donate, how would your action be any better than theirs? Do the individuals make better judgement than corporations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    An astonishing report by Forbes claims that 3 people in US have more wealth than the bottom half of the American people. Should this vicious cycle of corruption stop? How can this happen when US politicians care only for the corporations?
    The 3 persons you listed weren't born with that kind of money. They earned it through their own effort - is it not the American dream?

  4. #24
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Congress could at least pass a law where names can’t ever be hidden for any amount of time. As opposed to this 5 year anonymous black hole we currently have.
    And here is why political donations should be kept confidential.

    LA City Council Wants to Know If City Contractors Have Ties to NRA

    Engage in wrongthink? No work for you!

    The problem is special interest groups funding politics and those politicians then being beholden more to the special interest group than the people who elected them to office.
    You do realize that "special interest group" just means concerned citizen right? And everyone here knows that corporations cannot make campaign contributions to candidates right?
    Last edited by Big War Bird; February 13, 2019 at 07:56 PM.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    And here is why political donations should be kept confidential.

    LA City Council Wants to Know If City Contractors Have Ties to NRA

    Engage in wrongthink? No work for you!
    I don't care. Make political dark money illegal. You want to donate, make your name bright and shiny and readable to all. Or make speech different from money. Actions have consequences.
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  6. #26
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I don't care. Make political dark money illegal. You want to donate, make your name bright and shiny and readable to all. Or make speech different from money. Actions have consequences.
    Imagine who you least want to have this kind of power (Donald Trump!) being able to survey contractors, workers etc, and punish his political enemies and reward his backers with your blessing.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

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  7. #27
    Kyffhäuser's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    How can this happen when US politicians care only for the corporations?
    Capital punishment must have a place. Corruption is already illegal in the US: larceny, perjury, bribery. The deal is, who investigates corruption? Congressional Ethics launch a probe and exonerate their own. So who else, the Secret Service? The FBI? please, you are asking pimps to report on themselves.

    Occassionally there is a kiddie-diddling fall man like Denny Hastert, at the end of his public career, who serves a spell in adult daycare. These things circle round the drain, like organized crime, never really going away. There is no panacea, but like I said a Tarpeian rock could go some way. If alloyed with certain reforms that need their own topics.
    Last edited by Kyffhäuser; February 13, 2019 at 10:21 PM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    And here is why political donations should be kept confidential.

    LA City Council Wants to Know If City Contractors Have Ties to NRA

    Engage in wrongthink? No work for you!
    Yes the partisanship of most elements of US politics seems stunningly sickening to me as an outside observer. I loathe Trump and I can see where him and his people have been treated unfairly.

    If its unconstitutional I think they have a remedy, but once again that's more of a viable option for the rich, and most people are getting absolutely no richer and relatively much poorer so your point here stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    You do realize that "special interest group" just means concerned citizen right?
    You think the Washington lobbyist corps is concerned citizens? I saw House of Cards, they're all smooth amoral black guys fronting for Nuclear Billionaires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    And everyone here knows that corporations cannot make campaign contributions to candidates right?
    Impossible for them to influence politicians. Inconceivable that Exxon or Enron would buy the Presidency. Unheard of that the owners of corporations would use their private wealth to influence politicians to benefit their corporations by, for example, forcing a war with Iraq so US companies regained access to those oil contracts, or embargoing Venezuela or Iran for similar reasons.

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  9. #29

    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Imagine who you least want to have this kind of power (Donald Trump!) being able to survey contractors, workers etc, and punish his political enemies and reward his backers with your blessing.
    Find a better example. Trump doesn't have the attention span to sift through donation records much less the sheer number of contractors in the federal government. At least 1.5x the number of employees. And then what, hire another contractor to do a job they need done anyway that for at least half the jobs has to pass a background check? Right.

    Like I said. Dark money has screwed this crap up. Either make it illegal to spite SCOTUS or shine a light on it.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  10. #30
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Find a better example. Trump doesn't have the attention span to sift through donation records much less the sheer number of contractors in the federal government. At least 1.5x the number of employees. And then what, hire another contractor to do a job they need done anyway that for at least half the jobs has to pass a background check? Right.
    Are you telling me that you can't imagine a that there exists a vindictive politician that would use this information to act maliciously toward his opponents or that you endorse a politician acting this maliciously?

    Like I said. Dark money has screwed this crap up. Either make it illegal to spite SCOTUS or shine a light on it.
    This makes me think you believe the latter.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  11. #31

    Default Re: Why corruption is legal in USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    This makes me think you believe the latter.
    SCOTUS has literally as a side-writing to their interpretation said that if Congress wants to they can shine a light on Dark Money by law. The only other way is to amend the constitution given money is officially tied to speech. Tell me, which do you think has better odds.

    Or, you know. Option three is always doing nothing. The billionaires can keep having fun buying elections compared to the 20$ I can afford. The problem is I'm not sure you're appreciating the scale of the issue here.
    Last edited by Gaidin; February 14, 2019 at 05:14 PM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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