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Thread: Naval Composition and Pirates

  1. #1

    Default Naval Composition and Pirates

    I am playing as Rome and I have a problem with one fleet of pirates off the cost of Arminium. What is the best way to take out these pirates? Also what should my navy consist of for taking out pirates and also what should a general navy composition look like.
    Also, for right now making naval units is super expensive. Do you guys have any tips to decrease the naval upkeep.

    Thankyou.

  2. #2
    ScipioTheGreat's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by redflacko View Post
    I am playing as Rome and I have a problem with one fleet of pirates off the cost of Arminium. What is the best way to take out these pirates? Also what should my navy consist of for taking out pirates and also what should a general navy composition look like.
    Also, for right now making naval units is super expensive. Do you guys have any tips to decrease the naval upkeep.

    Thankyou.
    Best way is to build a navy of really any unit proportions as long as it doesn’t lean to much towards missles. My go-to has always been 1 supply, 6 missle units, 2 fire pots, and the rest melee. I slowly replace the small and weaker melee ships overtime, so that I end up with 2-4 faster ships, and each pair after being a better H2H unit, and later on I’ll add 2 siege ships into the mix.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    The most cost effective ships are, by far, the 100 archers one. Just kite enemy ships while firing flame arrows and you're set. If you play in the rain you're screwed though.

  4. #4
    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by ScipioTheGreat View Post
    Best way is to build a navy of really any unit proportions as long as it doesn’t lean to much towards missles. My go-to has always been 1 supply, 6 missle units, 2 fire pots, and the rest melee. I slowly replace the small and weaker melee ships overtime, so that I end up with 2-4 faster ships, and each pair after being a better H2H unit, and later on I’ll add 2 siege ships into the mix.

    Yeah, you always need some smaller faster ones. I like playing the naval battles although they're a bit buggy. Once the proper battle commences it turns quickly to a mess with ships blocking each other or engaged in melee. This is the time where your faster (and smaller) ships shine as they can flank enemy formation and start ramming their sides (sorry guys, i dont know the proper names for all them starboards etc).

  5. #5
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordling View Post
    Yeah, you always need some smaller faster ones. I like playing the naval battles although they're a bit buggy. Once the proper battle commences it turns quickly to a mess with ships blocking each other or engaged in melee. This is the time where your faster (and smaller) ships shine as they can flank enemy formation and start ramming their sides (sorry guys, i dont know the proper names for all them starboards etc).
    I also like them. They're buggy indeed, but still beautiful! Especially with the right graphics mods!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    I would love to see a replay or video of a successful naval battle. I've never been able to have one without chaos and bugs ruining any sense of immersion.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    Spam artillery ship. Sit and watch them sink. If one gets boarded manually shoot from a nearby ship for quick kill. Unfortunately game is too buggy to play it any other way.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    I play most of the naval battles, usually using big ramming ships, and very, very rarely encounter bugs.

    I play on normal unit size though and from reading the forum I feel that's a huge help in having smooth siege and naval battles

  9. #9
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    I usually encounter some bugs, but rarely on the scale to make the battles unplayable-I also play on normal unit size. #1 rule is to ram whenever possible, this not only can quickly turn the odds in your favor, but reduces the chance of dealing with bugs related to boarding. Fleet composition obviously changes from early to late game, but my fleet formation usually follows a consistent pattern:

    -Front and center I have my heaviest ships, these are likely to take the brunt of the enemy ramming and boarding, and should be able to survive multiple attacks while dealing damage. Ramming power, crew size, and durability are more important than speed here. Penteres/Quinqueremes are ideal for this role, though early game you will have to make do with smaller ships.

    -on the immediate flanks I have my fast ramming ships that are not as durable as the center, but more maneuverable in order to ram the sides of enemy ships, and still sturdy enough to withstand ramming/boarding attacks from enemies. Tetreres/Quadremes are ideal here, though triremes can sometimes do.

    -on the far flanks I have my missile ships, which are the fastest and most maneuverable vessels. I tend to deploy them a little further out to the flanks from the rest of the fleet, and often will put them in a line astern formation. This way they can row out to the flanks of the enemy line, and then turn in with their rams all abreast. I essentially always use trihemiolas in this role, as they are as fast as anything and still have enough ramming power to say, finish off a damaged enemy tetreres that is winning a boarding fight with one of my ships. Sometimes there are a handful of hemiolas from the starting navy or mercenaries, but I only really find these useful for raining down missiles or distracting the enemy. I would rather have two trihemiolas than 3 hemiolas due to their larger crew and ramming power.

    -In my larger fleets I will have a second line in the center behind my heaviest ships. Early-mid game this can be a hodgepodge of obsolescent types biremes/dires (I never recruit these, they were obsolete already in the classical era) or triremes. These support the mainline by rowing into the gaps of the engagement to ram damaged enemy ships or add their crews to a boarding fight. late game these can be artillery ships that can bombard the enemy before using their rams if needed.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    My experience is completely different from some of the users above. I find Naval Battles to be the most disappointing aspect of Rome 2. DeI has put in a heroic effort, but only so much can be done. Understanding its limitations coincides with understanding naval combat tactics, and can be explained together:

    In the classical world there were two strategies for naval fighting: boarding, and ramming. With the former, men would board each other’s ships and fight as if on land. With the latter, ships would ram into each other, attempting to break the other ship’s hull and scoring an easy victory. Ramming, though higher reward, is more difficult and riskier. Boarding is simpler but ties units down in drawn-out fighting.

    Both approaches work poorly in Rome 2.

    • Boarding, though possible, often leads to bugs. For example, the winning ship remains in “board” mode, unable to disengage. Sometimes the boats engage but fail to fight. Very often the angle of approach is what decides whether the board works or not, and this angle is never obvious.
    • Ramming, though possible, only works well initially. When boats first make contact, if one boat is destroyed, the ramming was successful. If not, the AI begins a bizarre ramming dance where they awkwardly backpedal and attempt to ram you again and again. As they chip away at your hull, your ship will eventually break.


    The human player may also attempt this dance. The problem is that this process necessitates you actively issuing a ‘ram’ order to the ship, which may or may not work. Regardless, you have to reissue the ‘ram’ order again and again. FOR. EACH. SHIP. As you can imagine, this is an obnoxious process in large naval battles.

    The reason for this insanity is that there is no way to order ships to backpedal; an essential maneuver in naval combat. Only by reissuing a ‘ram’ order can a ship backpedal slightly to ram again. Which is fine, except Creative Assembly a.) did not automate this process, and b.) did not implement any logic for the ramming maneuver. So you end up with giant mosh-pits of ships feebly ramming each other, sometimes boarding, and the player frantically (and manually) clicking on each naval unit to reissue an order that often fails to register.

    • Boarding also, bizarrely, takes priority over ramming. (As in, ramming a ship that’s trying to board you often doesn’t work. You’ll just be boarded.)


    For these reasons, most players simply auto-roll naval combat. When in-game, test out a few custom naval battles, and see how you they go. Perhaps you’ll find them bearable.

    An alternative option is to have a navy composed of missile-units and artillery ships, which allows you to play a fun (albeit ahistorical) game of ship skirmishing. The problem is that this force is not qualified to take cities (outside of auto-roll), when a traditional marine-led navy is.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    I don't seem to have the same issues as others in regards to naval battles, though I make a point of avoiding boarding at all costs (and if a ship of mine is engaged in the melee boarding animation, I just mentally write it off and let the engagement go however it will).

    What I do is have a fleet comprising half of triremes (speed of 5, and good ramming damage) and penteres/tetreres (speed of 4, highest ram damage). Then mentally break down the enemy fleet - any trihemiolas can be insta-killed with a single ram from a trireme, so I'll go ahead and position my triremes to do so. Any enemy trireme can be insta-sunk with a ram from a pentere/tetrere, and a ram from a trireme (i.e. two rams), so I will position the remaining fleet to do that.

    I nearly always start the battle with a third of my ships facing forward (the heavy ones), and two equal-third wings of triremes. Usually the enemy split their fleet to meet the various wings, and I can just choose the opposing wing to perform a perpendicular ram that will usually sink the enemy ship in one hit.

    It takes a lot of micro-management, but I have been able to take out a full enemy fleet + full transport fleet with only 10 triremes doing this.

    If you want to practice, I suggest playing the Wrath of Sparta campaign as Corinth - you'll be constantly defending the Bay of Corinth with a pitiful fleet and you'll be surprised how many Athenian death stacks you can take on.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    1. Ram
    2. Maybe use archer ships (and ram also with them)
    3. Never ever use boarding
    4. Ships with bigger health can stand more ramming = better ships
    5. More ships than your enemy = more ramming = profit

  13. #13
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Naval Composition and Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    My experience is completely different from some of the users above. I find Naval Battles to be the most disappointing aspect of Rome 2. DeI has put in a heroic effort, but only so much can be done. Understanding its limitations coincides with understanding naval combat tactics, and can be explained together:...
    Those are all very valid points! Those bugs do happen, and happen far too often. A Rome 2 where enemy ships can't magically stop the momentum of my ram to board my ship, where my ships can back oars to ram again automatically without my wearing out my mouse clicking attack over and over, and where ships don't just go MIA after boarding or sometimes without even engaging an enemy ship.....would be unfathomably better.

    However, I do find that I can somewhat mitigate them.

    -I focus multiple ships ram on one enemy at the start to try to sink them in the first salvo. (giving the second ram order on the same ship results in the buggy repeated cancellation of the order, but if that ship is sunk they are free to attack another one without having to micro the attack button. )

    -With my center I switch to boarding after the opening ramming salvo for the ships that are in a position to reinforce those that have been boarded by the enemy already. The enemy heavies can also sustain multiple ramming attacks, so this can reduce micro if successful. If not, its back to ramming. Inevitably some will fail at the boarding or be stuck in the mass of ships.

    -Once their flanks are dealt with I can finish off the enemy center with multiple ramming attacks and adding to boarding crews (if possible).

    Now I usually have to micro a second ramming attack at any given moment, but these situations are spaced out enough that i often loose only one ship to enemy follow-on rams that sink a ship while my attention is elsewhere, due to my efforts to sink enemies with multiple coordinated initial blows. usually at least one, maybe two crews were decimated in lopsided boarding engagements where buggy behavior meant i couldn't reinforce them with the crew of a second ship. And one or two ships were unresponsive or fled by the end of the battle due to bugginess or crew loss. In most cases though, I have more ships remaining, my crews are in better shape, and the enemy has more ships lost, than if I had auto-resolved.

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