10 Things Medieval 3 Would Need

[Daruwind]

I think CA Australia created Shogun I, MTW 1, Rome TW and lalf made M2TW before mother company fire them. It seams that their work in Australia had some legal keys not to be used by the mother company again and i strongly believe that is the reason M2TW has half onlt feature of RTW and anyother TW game is worst.
I still remember the hiden messages in MWT from your spy "the enemy gathers troops in your borders. It may means nothing but may means an invasion to our lands". Even that simple feature the curent dev team naver accomplished to copy! And remember one of them was a high awarded modder here in TWC! It seams that the awards he recieved were by PR and not by his true skills.

@Twilight Esker wrote it very well. I will just add small note. Every ign TW has some unused parts of code. In troy there are dozens or references to Wh2. ToB is build upon Attila and you can find there stuff from Empire/Shogun 2. Wow such consipiracy. If you look into code long enough, you will start seeing things that are not there..

[AnthoniusII]

We open a long discusion again.
Rome I /M2TW
4 settlements per size/culture
Rome I allows the separate build of walls! M2TW doesn't.
Rome II/Attila 1 SETTLEMENT BATTLEMODEL pese size /culture ONLY ONE!!!!
3/4 settlements unwalled at all /Atilla 4 lever minor settlements get walls with HUGE OPEN GAPS to allow AI to invade the settlement without ussing siege equiment.
Rome I
Maximun armies sieging a settlement 4 .Each one has its own siege equpiment such ladders, tunnels, siege towers
M2TW Maximum armies sieging a settlement 4 only ONE has siege equipemnt such ladders etc.
Rome II/Attila maximum armies sieging a settlement 2 . Only one has seige equipment and the mounted units do not dismount like in Shogun II to use it.
Attila siege ...Walls damaged by rain or wind or Devine interrvantion because AI can not use siege equipemnt properly!
Do I make a mistake because i own these games ...I have no comments after Attila though. I judge what I see.
Rome I maximum number of armies comming to the battlefield in parts 4 or more (i had a battle against 5 enemy armies with 3 of mine).
M2TW the reinforcemnts are fine but limited to 1 army.
Rome II and Attila reinforcements are from the start .....but they are more passive that the dead.
@Twilight Esker
If Feral did what CA/SEGA was unable to do i would sugest we make a commiye to write to CA/SEGA to unlock the M2TW/Kingdoms engine to us the modders and allow us make Medieval 3 GIVING THEM THEIR fair share of the profits. RR has 4k textures but of what i have seen they even get close to DX9 textures of M2TW newst mods!
Comparing the hosrses (that are my favorite part of TW games)they even got close to MARKA horses! Am I wrong?

And i believe they do not have detailed model textures like this:

So RR may offer new capabillities but for Medieval 3 WE DEMAND something revolutionary and to include ALL the good aspects of ALL previus TW games . No more stupid AI , no more walls that fall by wind and rain!
We want the AI of MTW, the siege abillities of Rome I , the divercity of M2TW and the best textures and models. No more horses like in Shogun II that riders use exelent models and textures and the horses look like cows!
Naval battle liek ETW where you can capture enemy ship ...Attila uses M2TW system!

[Jurand of Cracow]

Medieval 2 system was almost perfect except for the fact you could only build a single thing at the time. So you had ridiculous things like a huge city paralized building a single chapel for x ammount of turns. techzpod.com mobdro app

in my opinion, this is one of the biggest advantages of the Medieval 2 engine. In the other TW you may build up a settlement from ashes into a huge city within very few turns. Time is not a parameter of the gameplay anymore - even though the available-building-places is. The impact on the gameplay is big: in the new TW a good tactics is: keep peace, gather money, build up all the settlements you have to the maximum possible by the number of building places, then gather more money, recruit a huge army, and then rush the map. In the Med2 you've got additional factors: building up a settlement takes time, there're recruitment pools with maximum number of potential units to be recruited. This forces the player to adopt a balanced strategy (what, imo, is much more historical).
One way of dealing with this strategy was adopted in the Thrones of Brittania by Jack Lusted (a veteran Med2 modder): additional parameter War Fervour (that red bar that would force you to fight even if you'd prefer to build up the settlements). In the fantasy titles it's also dealt with differently.

[komisarek]

We open a long discusion again.
If Feral did what CA/SEGA was unable to do i would sugest we make a commiye to write to CA/SEGA to unlock the M2TW/Kingdoms engine to us the modders and allow us make Medieval 3 GIVING THEM THEIR fair share of the profits. RR has 4k textures but of what i have seen they even get close to DX9 textures of M2TW newst mods!
Comparing the hosrses (that are my favorite part of TW games)they even got close to MARKA horses! Am I wrong?

So RR may offer new capabillities but for Medieval 3 WE DEMAND something revolutionary and to include ALL the good aspects of ALL previus TW games . No more stupid AI , no more walls that fall by wind and rain!
We want the AI of MTW, the siege abillities of Rome I , the divercity of M2TW and the best textures and models. No more horses like in Shogun II that riders use exelent models and textures and the horses look like cows!
Naval battle liek ETW where you can capture enemy ship ...Attila uses M2TW system!

Feral took three years to create the remaster, because the old engine is so stubborn. This is not an easy feat, and at this point you'd probably be better of making a new game from scratch, using Unity DOTS, Unreal Engine, or something like that. I'm not one of these guys who will say "BrUh JuSt WrItE YoUr OwN EnGiNe. Yeah, you probably will spend 10 years doing that, so don't.

I would like to point out that a lot of the things you consider to be better in the older games are... not better at all, for many other players. Town varieties per culture? So what? All of them look the same - square cities with a square wall. I absolutely despise the old settlement system where every building in every settlement is the same. Rome II and newer games force you to specialise your settlements, which in my opinion is much better. AI in Rome and Medieval also really wasn't any better. Half the time they don't know how to use the siege equipment, and the other half the time they send individual troops towards the gate only to lose their EQ to a cavalry charge... You're looking at all of this through rose-coloured glasses.

Controversial statement: I actually like the single wall siege of Warhammer games. Still, imo best sieges were in ToB.

So what if you can have more armies sieging a settlement? Siege is a siege. I've never felt a need to put more armies to besiege a city than one, really.

Maximun armies sieging a settlement 4 .Each one has its own siege equpiment such ladders, tunnels, siege towers

Your armies also build equipment in Rome 2 onwards...? What's your point?

[AnthoniusII]

Feral took three years to create the remaster, because the old engine is so stubborn. This is not an easy feat, and at this point you'd probably be better of making a new game from scratch, using Unity DOTS, Unreal Engine, or something like that. I'm not one of these guys who will say "BrUh JuSt WrItE YoUr OwN EnGiNe. Yeah, you probably will spend 10 years doing that, so don't.

I would like to point out that a lot of the things you consider to be better in the older games are... not better at all, for many other players. Town varieties per culture? So what? All of them look the same - square cities with a square wall. I absolutely despise the old settlement system where every building in every settlement is the same. Rome II and newer games force you to specialise your settlements, which in my opinion is much better. AI in Rome and Medieval also really wasn't any better. Half the time they don't know how to use the siege equipment, and the other half the time they send individual troops towards the gate only to lose their EQ to a cavalry charge... You're looking at all of this through rose-coloured glasses.

Controversial statement: I actually like the single wall siege of Warhammer games. Still, imo best sieges were in ToB.

So what if you can have more armies sieging a settlement? Siege is a siege. I've never felt a need to put more armies to besiege a city than one, really.


Your armies also build equipment in Rome 2 onwards...? What's your point?

DO we play the same Rome II AND ATTILA games?
Since when AI in those games use both their siege equipment such ladders , rams and towers ? In Rome I 4 armies (no catapults no balistas) besiege a city with their OWN ladders, tunnels , rams and siege towers. Have you seen this feature in Rome II and Attila? If yes then we play different games! In M2TW 4 armies (no catapults no balistas) only one has ladders , rams and siege towers and the rest three waiting a breach on the walls or an open gate to strom in to the settlement. If you have seen other than that we defenetly play different games!
In Shogun II MOUNTED UNITS dismount and attack the walls. Have you seen this feature in Rome II and Attila? In those games rebel armies that siege a settlement use only ONE((1) LADDER!
About the settlement battlemao variety...I prefer 4 versions of "square" settlements per/size/culture rather than ONE (1) cloned settlement every where.
In Rome II and Attila how do you specialise your settlement when they have limited builoding slots and their actuall size does not connect with the battlemapo model? In Strat_map in both Rome II and Attila you may have Huge city and on the battlemap a village with towers copied from Age of Empires 2! In Attila they were so lazy that did not add proper walls to Roman and Sassanid settlements. So before you claim for your self the title "gaurdian of CA/SEGA" I would sugest to gather deeper knowlege of the games them selvs.
PS: You may like only one enemy army to siege your cities to defeat them easily and feel superior commander but the hardcore of TW gamers ask for maximum realism and maximum chalenge.
PS2: In MTW you spy randmly sent you messages about your neiburs intentions like "Hungarians gather armies close to our borders and we need to have a look at it" Have you seen this feature in an other TW game? Of yes post a screenshot and tell us which TW game it is!

[komisarek]

DO we play the same Rome II AND ATTILA games?
Since when AI in those games use both their siege equipment such ladders , rams and towers ? In Rome I 4 armies (no catapults no balistas) besiege a city with their OWN ladders, tunnels , rams and siege towers. Have you seen this feature in Rome II and Attila? If yes then we play different games! In M2TW 4 armies (no catapults no balistas) only one has ladders , rams and siege towers and the rest three waiting a breach on the walls or an open gate to strom in to the settlement. If you have seen other than that we defenetly play different games!

I haven't played Vanilla for a while, but this is not my experience with R2 and Attila at all. When did you play it last? On release?

In Shogun II MOUNTED UNITS dismount and attack the walls. Have you seen this feature in Rome II and Attila? In those games rebel armies that siege a settlement use only ONE((1) LADDER!

In Shogun 2 you don't even need ladders. You can break through a gate with torches and climb any wall you want. Crap comparison.

About the settlement battlemao variety...I prefer 4 versions of "square" settlements per/size/culture rather than ONE (1) cloned settlement every where.

That's just not true. There are unique settlements with different layouts.

In Rome II and Attila how do you specialise your settlement when they have limited builoding slots and their actuall size does not connect with the battlemapo model

You specialise it by deciding which building chains will work best in what region, based on what that region can offer you. Limited choice of buildings = harder choices. In Rome 1 you could just build everything everywhere, which is boring, and certainly not "Realistic" if that's what you really care about.

So before you claim for your self the title "gaurdian of CA/SEGA" I would sugest to gather deeper knowlege of the games them selvs.

I never gave myself any title. I do know that Rome 1 bores me to death without mods nowadays, and the same goes for Medieval 2.

PS: You may like only one enemy army to siege your cities to defeat them easily and feel superior commander but the hardcore of TW gamers ask for maximum realism and maximum chalenge.

Other armies can still support. They don't have to be engaged with a city to take part in battle. Most players are not "hardcore" kind who enjoy the likes of Stainless Steel. Sorry, you're obviously not the target market anymore. Also, I'm with the series since the first Shogun game.

In MTW you spy randmly sent you messages about your neiburs intentions like "Hungarians gather armies close to our borders and we need to have a look at it" Have you seen this feature in an other TW game? Of yes post a screenshot and tell us which TW game it is!

I don't need a message to tell me that armies gather on my border. I can see it myself.

[AnthoniusII]

You maybe right...I might not be the market target anymore. But...If you take a close look in the TWC M2TW/Kingdoms hostede mods those that comment ask for more realism. That either means you are wrong about what is the market target or you simply compromise your will with what the CA/SEGA will offer you and feel ok. That is your right. Allow me to ask what Ceasar Clivus (propably you never heard of him ) someday said "this crazy man asks us to do crazy things"! 14 years of development those crazy things are about to be released....You like graphics i like realism, you like new titles i like modding tools..Every one has the right to have his own prospective.
EDIT: BTW I also have all titles from Shigun I to Attila! Shogun I still provides better diplomacy and better CAI than Attila!

[komisarek]

You maybe right...I might not be the market target anymore. But...If you take a close look in the TWC M2TW/Kingdoms hostede mods those that comment ask for more realism. That either means you are wrong about what is the market target or you simply compromise your will with what the CA/SEGA will offer you and feel ok. That is your right. Allow me to ask what Ceasar Clivus (propably you never heard of him ) someday said "this crazy man asks us to do crazy things"! 14 years of development those crazy things are about to be released....You like graphics i like realism, you like new titles i like modding tools..Every one has the right to have his own prospective.
EDIT: BTW I also have all titles from Shigun I to Attila! Shogun I still provides better diplomacy and better CAI than Attila!

I really do not like your "you're with me or against me" attitude. No where do I quote people and follow up with "you probably never heard of him/her" as if knowing random people's quotes somehow makes you a better person. You accuse me of liking graphics over realism without knowing anything about me. If I didn't like modding or modding tools, I wouldn't be writing the tutorials that I'm writing, nor would I be working on my mods.

Now that we discussed your elitist attitude, we can move onto something more sensible.

If you want realism in a modern Total War, I suggest you look at DEI for Rome 2, for example. It offers far more realism than any mod made for Rome or Vanilla. The most realistic mods aren't always the most popular. EB for example, although a great mod that pushes many boundaries, is not for everyone, and many players really don't like the slow and restrictive gameplay. There is a reason why Rome II is the most popular historical total war released to date, and it's not the graphics. There is a reason why Warhammer games are popular, and again, it's not only because they are fantasy.

I don't feel that I'm compromising with CA. I simply like their modern games. Are they perfect? No. Could they be better? Yes.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I don't feel that I'm compromising with CA. I simply like their modern games. Are they perfect? No. Could they be better? Yes.

@komisarek, I'd be interested what do you think about an argument put here abour the Sniping group of armies. Could you comment?

[Lord Baal]

I would argue that instead of forcing a single building slot on the building system, or the frankly bad "specialize your cities, limited slots per settlement", the cities should be able to merge too. Unlimited slots, and simultaneous queues depending on the size, money, resources and manpower available. I describe it pretty in deep on my wall of doom but basically the buildings you order to make should be the kind of things rulers actually did, chapels? Of course, barracks, gallows, jails, town halls? Too. Brothels?? Not so much.

And each building should be progressively more expensive, require more work, more upkeep and so on... so either you have more builders/workers/resources or you'll spend A LOT building them. Building several things at the same time is an option, but it spreads thin all your resources on that city so in the end it might not be the best bet. This would naturally make you spend more on critical places and when upkeep on money, manpower and resources is compounded you'll find yourself abandoning castles and dismantling facilities on many places instead of "hurr durr you have only one slot so is gonna be money, spies or soldiers..."

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

I would argue that instead of forcing a single building slot on the building system, or the frankly bad "specialize your cities, limited slots per settlement", the cities should be able to merge too. Unlimited slots, and simultaneous queues depending on the size, money, resources and manpower available. I describe it pretty in deep on my wall of doom but basically the buildings you order to make should be the kind of things rulers actually did, chapels? Of course, barracks, gallows, jails, town halls? Too. Brothels?? Not so much.

And each building should be progressively more expensive, require more work, more upkeep and so on... so either you have more builders/workers/resources or you'll spend A LOT building them. Building several things at the same time is an option, but it spreads thin all your resources on that city so in the end it might not be the best bet. This would naturally make you spend more on critical places and when upkeep on money, manpower and resources is compounded you'll find yourself abandoning castles and dismantling facilities on many places instead of "hurr durr you have only one slot so is gonna be money, spies or soldiers..."

In my mind building should be more about sponsoring projects to achieve certain ends, rather than literally building various things. While you may indeed build a Chapel, Abbey and so forth deliberately, perhaps rather than build a brothel that slot represents more of a system. A state sponsored entertainment, with some fitting name. Otherwise I'm very much in line with this thinking.

[AnthoniusII]

To return to the OP question: For The Medieval 3 Total War my 10 features i desire:

1. The Diplomacy , Campaign AI , exchange of hostages and captured characters Ransom from Shogun I and MTW 1. Also the agents reports that apear from a spy in terain you can not see beyond yoru borders.
2. The Siege system of Rome I when 4 armies (with or with out catapults or balistas) build their own siege equipment such ladders, rams and siege towers plus tunnels and attack a settlement from different sides.
3. The return of multi path river crossings of Rome I river battles.
4. The separation of the wall size fromn the settlement size (Rome I).
5. Return the Rome I feature that recruited units degrease the active population of the settlement.
6. Models and textures divercity plus natural body animations from M2TW.
7. From ETW co-existing a major settleent as capital with minor settlements in a region and separation of teh settlements building slots to the buildinh slots of the region's infrastruction such roads, watch towers etc.
8. Frow ETW the abillity of cature an enemy ship after a victorius naval battle.
9. Fr5om Shogun 2 Mounted units dismount to use siege equipment.
10. From the lastest TW games the horse models.

Extras:

• Multi layer defence walls for all setlements.
• Actuall link of the strat_map model of a settlement with its battle map one (in Rome II you could have a huge city as strat_map and a village as battlemap model because they were separated in tech tree slots).
• Actuall rebelions based on leader's authority. That requires "shadow" factions.
• Active and agressive rebels.
• Actuall command of reinforcements like MWT 1!, and actuall command of re-inforcements like in M2TW.
• The return of the "Throne Room"like Shogun I

Features that must be removed,

1. Armies that can not move or create without a general.
2. Settlement gaurissons that based on peseants.
3. Separation of the war ships from transport ships that in the transport ships the units wont be able to fight.
4. No more the siege escalation feature of Attila. Instead player should be allowed to attack to a settlement and retreat without braking the siege unless the defenders sally out.
5. No more linear developemnt of better units. There are many mods CA/SEGA could learn that ellite and low rank units co exist from the start of the game.

You wanted a list. There it is,

[Lord Baal]

In my mind building should be more about sponsoring projects to achieve certain ends, rather than literally building various things. While you may indeed build a Chapel, Abbey and so forth deliberately, perhaps rather than build a brothel that slot represents more of a system. A state sponsored entertainment, with some fitting name. Otherwise I'm very much in line with this thinking.

For those things I support more a thing like edicts or toggleable "techs", down to province or city level. "Do you allow such things in this city or not?" Depending on religion, culture and other things it could affect some things like public order, religious conversion, population growth, recruitment pool, income, recruitment costs/upkeep of some units/agents... positively or negatively and allow or disallow recruitment of certain units or agents or certain buildings.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

In broadest terms, Med III would need a campaign mode massively more in depth than prior entries in the series, given how spoiled I am by Crusader Kings which makes going back to a Total War style campaign in that setting pretty brutal