If the world isolated the US, could this lead to its collapse?

[fkizz]

So why doesn't NATO and the Anglosphere countries do it then?

Because the alternative would be Russia or China, economically China, and such a shift in power balance would create incentives for a bigger war. The power assymetry of US vs NATO+China+Russia+Anglosphere, with US all alone, would create the power assimetry necessary to make a large scale war in big demand. Would that be a good thing?

Plus read some Thomas Hobbes. US acts a Leviathan, if US was out of the game it would just create a power vacuum to be replaced by another entity who would do equal or worse. You would just get invaded by Russia or colonized by China, who knows?

US simply filled the power vacuum of British Empire and Europe (WWI plus WWII destroyed Europe as a hegemon). If an hegemon disappears, another hegemon will replace it. That's how history goes. The disappearence of the current hegemon does not imply a world without the concept of hegemony.
It's a more abstract situation.

[AqD]

Not really. America is a world of its own, culturally and economically. Largely self-sufficient. It might even by a net gain, long-term, to get rid of all foreign influences. The world needs America more than the other way around.

um, I'm pretty sure normal people and international companies such as Google will move abroad, and other countries would be more than happy to grant them citizenship.

[Sir Adrian]

Not really. America is a world of its own, culturally and economically. Largely self-sufficient. It might even by a net gain, long-term, to get rid of all foreign influences. The world needs America more than the other way around.

The United States is not even remotely self-sufficient. No country in the world is.

[Just answer the question]

Because the alternative would be Russia or China, economically China, and such a shift in power balance would create incentives for a bigger war.

I don't understand where this irrational fear of China and Russia is coming from....... They both don't have the means to do what America does!

And at least China has been building up African nations economies.

And as for Russia, the last time they invaded a nation, they collapsed, so I don't think they'll make that stupid mistake again.

[Just answer the question]

The United States is not even remotely self-sufficient. No country in the world is.

I know, sounds like American arrogance again.

[Just answer the question]

um, I'm pretty sure normal people and international companies such as Google will move abroad, and other countries would be more than happy to grant them citizenship.

Please hurry. We need to make America as weak as possible.

[Vanoi]

Answer to the OP is yes it could lead to it's collapse. The chances of that actually happening? Extremely unlikely.

[Mayer]

I think the OP has a point. The USA has earned its bad reputation with a history of military interventions and regime change.
NATO was originally founded as collective defense against the communist threat, but it's used to participate in US aggressions.
Virtually all recent problems are the result of US meddling in the middle east (terrorism, refugee crisis, ISIS).
Americans got greedy after the fall of the Soviet Union and began to think the whole world was theirs to command.
Thankfully we see new powers emerging like China, because a one-world government would only benefit global elites like the Google company.

If the US was devoid of reason and starts to invade countries at whim (i.e. if the warmongers in Washington got their way), i would support leaving NATO and seek an alliance with Russia and China.
They may not be very democratic, but neither is the USA in which political power comes with the USD. At least they support sovereign rights more often than not.
An eurasian continental block seems to be the only safeguard against a rabid US which would be the single greatest threat to world peace.

[Just answer the question]

I think the OP has a point.

Thank you.

You are the first person on this site to ever say this. All of the responses I've got would rather lick America's dirty butt or say something stupid like: "America may be evil but it is the least evil of the superpowers" instead of searching for better alternatives.......

An eurasian continental block seems to be the only safeguard against a rabid US which would be the single greatest threat to world peace.

Unfortunately, based on the responses not only on this site, too many are cowards.

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

I don't understand where this irrational fear of China and Russia is coming from....... They both don't have the means to do what America does!

Fear?

You caught on the US horrible acts against the Native Americans, and you seem convinced that Russia, or China wouldn't ever do similar things, for example things such as this and that.

Means?

Ever heard of Territorial disputes in the South China Sea, there are several countries involved, only China can smack them all together with relative ease and enforce its claim, which I believe will happen eventually, nevertheless for some reason they aren't being aggressive that much, I wonder why.

And at least China has been building up African nations economies.

As well as placing in-repayable debts on them, which come quite handy when you want to make a country your puppet, Zambia particularly has it rough, will China seize its national electric company, it remains to be seen. I'm sure debt repayment can be rearranged or partially forgiven in exchange for... something.

And as for Russia, the last time they invaded a nation, they collapsed, so I don't think they'll make that stupid mistake again.

No, it didn't, and there's several reasons for it. First, Russia didn't invade Afghanistan, that was USSR, second, USSR collapsed due to multiple reasons, the war was only one of them and definitely not a crucial reason, third, Russian Federation, the current country, has successfully invaded Georgia and secured independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which are effectively Russian satellites, in addition to that, Russia has successfully seized military installations on Crimea and officially annexed the peninsula, after these actions, which happened more than 20 years after Soviet-Afghan War, Russia isn't collapsing.

Thank you. Unfortunately, based on the responses not only on this site, too many are cowards.

Or, maybe, most people on this forum are from the US and Europe and, as Westerners, do not feel much inclination towards an authoritarian communist government dictating the World, some are from Eastern Europe, and for some reasons, do not remember fondly good old day when their true capital was Moscow.

Basically as you said, they'd say:

"America may be evil but it is the least evil of the superpowers" instead of searching for better alternatives.......

But more importantly, the realistic answer to your question is, we'll never get find that out, because if the US becomes weaker than China or Russia, or whatever power emerges in the future, some country, somewhere on this planet, will need the US for something.

[Just answer the question]

Fear?

You caught on the US horrible acts against the Native Americans, and you seem convinced that Russia, or China wouldn't ever do similar things, for example things such as this and that.

I didn't say they were benevolent, I said they couldn't do it worldwide.

Ever heard of Territorial disputes in the South China Sea

Yes I have but I also heard that China is willing to share it with its neighbors plus..... it is China's anyways......

As well as placing in-repayable debts on them, which come quite handy when you want to make a country your puppet, Zambia particularly has it rough, will China seize its national electric company, it remains to be seen. I'm sure debt repayment can be rearranged or partially forgiven in exchange for... something.

I'm sorry but what is the difference between the West and China? What is the difference between what the 2 are doing in Africa? At least the Chinese are building them up and I'm sure those African nations knew the risk plus nothing is free, they engaged in deals after all.

No, it didn't, and there's several reasons for it. First, Russia didn't invade Afghanistan, that was USSR, second, USSR collapsed due to multiple reasons, the war was only one of them and definitely not a crucial reason, third, Russian Federation, the current country, has successfully invaded Georgia and secured independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which are effectively Russian satellites, in addition to that, Russia has successfully seized military installations on Crimea and officially annexed the peninsula, after these actions, which happened more than 20 years after Soviet-Afghan War, Russia isn't collapsing.

Okay..... if Russia is so evil, why hasn't the world stopped it then?

Or, maybe, most people on this forum are from the US and Europe and, as Westerners, do not feel much inclination towards an authoritarian communist government dictating the World, some are from Eastern Europe, and for some reasons, do not remember fondly good old day when their true capital was Moscow.

"Oh, you are anti-US? You are anti-Western? You must be a dirty, communist, dictator loving, fool!"

[conon394]

Virtually all recent problems are the result of US meddling in the middle east (terrorism, refugee crisis, ISIS).

Because wait Europe never meddled there, no badly drawn lines, randomly picked kings, great games, inviting the Ottomans to join you in happy fun time back in 1914. I won't defend Iraq, possibly the greatest foreign policy blunder in last 100 years. World leaders really should get bed time readings from Thucydides - wars of choice rarely turn out well if ever the who opt for war are almost certainly desperate or deluded.

[athanaric]

Because wait Europe never meddled there, no badly drawn lines, randomly picked kings, great games, inviting the Ottomans to join you in happy fun time back in 1914. I won't defend Iraq, possibly the greatest foreign policy blunder in last 100 years.

Both of you are missing the point. The problems he listed have roots going much deeper than European and American meddling. It's disingenuous to present them solely as an outcome of the intervention by foreign powers x, y, or z.

[conon394]

I am aware of that, I was mentioning that in recent time the US is hardly the only Great Power to fail to not meddle. Its really sort of the human condition. At best its the same reason an IT guy grabs the key board and says arrogantly look let me do that you are not listening and doing it too slow. See I got my state in order and am rich and powerful - I know best just shut up and me do it... Of course there are all the darker alternatives like I bet it would be way cooler if we made them do all the hard wok because we can make them... My argument would be after WW2 the US avoided the most of the worst options when it had for a time almost all the opportunity. Before that well sort of middle of the pack but unless JATQ wants to rank every nation in Europe as well from 1500-1914 on some sort of point scale to find immaculate innocent ones he (she?) cannot keep trolling all of US history.

[dogukan]

Since the world is afraid to attack the US through force, can it attack it through its economy instead?


1.) The world will stop using the $.

This is where your question would normally end.
What you are basically saying is the end of the global economic system.
What currency will the world use if not $? There still is no valid alternative that everyone can agree on to this day.

2.) Trade, immigration, tourism, business, anything to do with the economy will stop flowing to the US.

Interestingly, US economy relies little on trade due to its financially deep and large own economy/domestic market.

3.) American businesses must shutdown and Americans living overseas are given 30 days to pack up and leave or face imprisonment and forced labor.

The rest of the world would lose tech, expertise if we ignore the military retaliation to such expropriations.

4.) All foreign businesses will shutdown and all skilled immigrants will leave the US.

Will they? And even if they do, do you think they'll succeed the same way when they go home? Human capital needs eco systems and the right environment. They are specifically drawn to certain regions in US for good reasions.

Will this make the US collapse and breakdown into smaller nation states?

Not likely.

Also would this hurt the world's economy too? Would it hurt the world's economy for long? Would it hurt the world's economy more than it would hurt the US's? If the US does collapse, will the world be more peaceful and happy?

The world economy would literally collapse. The whole system is based on USA, the dollar, the institutions of finance and trade mostly maintained by USA and security provided by USA.

I know, sounds like American arrogance again.

For an highly open economy, USA is actually quiet sufficient as an economy. Trade takes a small portion of American economy and they have a very deep financial market with a great demographic basis to sustain their system.
Their biggest partners are not the "world", basically, laaaaaargely Canada and Mexico. And even their share in total American economy is extremely low.

Most of the rest of the world actually relies on a trade system that is maintained by USA and actually highly benefit from it. The biggest benefitor in fact is China who stands to lose the most from the destruction of the global trade regime or the destruction of maritime security.

A better question is, CAN a new order be estalished after destroying this on?

[fkizz]

I don't understand where this irrational fear of China and Russia is coming from....... They both don't have the means to do what America does!
And at least China has been building up African nations economies.
And as for Russia, the last time they invaded a nation, they collapsed, so I don't think they'll make that stupid mistake again.

It's not fear of China or Russia. It's just that both have an power expansionist mindset (even if mostly via soft power by now) plus autocratic regimes when the West pushes for Democratic liberal regimes. There would be political conflict to say the least.
Russia is maturing at the moment. Maybe in 2030-2040 it can have the maturity to be a world leader in more than military power, it is growing in a decent way at least in terms of PR, but China is still too autocratic and uses too much surveillance.

Plus US was created by European colonials. There's more similiarity.

[Just answer the question]

.......in recent time the US is hardly the only Great Power to fail to not meddle. Its really sort of the human condition.

.......he (she?) cannot keep trolling all of US history.

Yes..... just because others do it, that makes it okay. That's like saying "It's okay to kill someone, my neighbors do it anyway."

AND of course, I'm a troll! I'm always a troll whenever I talk about this, how original and mature.

[Pontifex Maximus]

We'd save billions of dollars if the rest of the world decided to stop relying on us for their continued survival so it, I don't care. Cut us off at your own risk, I don't give a if your country descends into chaos.

[Just answer the question]

What currency will the world use if not $? There still is no valid alternative that everyone can agree on to this day.

There are plenty of other alternatives.

Interestingly, US economy relies little on trade due to its financially deep and large own economy/domestic market.

It earns more than $1 TRILLION in trade, that's pretty big.

The rest of the world would lose tech, expertise if we ignore the military retaliation to such expropriations.

Europe and Asia are tech hubs and I don't think they are that stupid to do anything with their military force. They might be the most powerful but the world still has the advantage in the long run.

Will they? And even if they do, do you think they'll succeed the same way when they go home? Human capital needs eco systems and the right environment. They are specifically drawn to certain regions in US for good reasions.

They will because when they do this, the US economy will be finished, After that, they will face the same problems Venezuela is facing.

People it can be done, the world is simply too cowardly and too in love with the $. So many other tiny, poor nations have proven that they can exist without them.

And yes, a new world order can be established. Did you forget that humans are resilient? We've survived the ice age, we will survive making a new...... a better world order.

After they are gone or when they don't have the power they have, when justice has been served, the world will discover better alternatives, better ways of system, better ways of diplomacy, better ways of equality, better ways of everything...... without them.

As I already mentioned it is not going to be easy, humanity will have to sacrifice many.

[dogukan]

The only plausible alternative to dollar was the Euro and it has lost its chance at becoming the global reserve currency with its internal problems and instability.
1 trillion is big, but in the grand scheme of things, it relatively small for USA. And you are assuming you can cut ALL their trade.

As for the rest of your post, I don't know what you are trying to get to. Humanity is not trying to destroy the USA. Many people are content with the US-led world and would rather have it that way as opposed to alternatives like China or Russia.

They will never reach the soft power the USa has in the next couple decades for sure. Nor the ability to provide reserve currency or the financial depth and economic structure to liquidfy the global markets easily.