Deteriorating Situation in Venezuela

[NorseThing]

Pretty much the Monroe Doctrine is whatever the current sitting President and administration state it to be. In general, the Org. of American States cooperates on opposing outside interference. This is why Venezuela wants to withdraw (still in), but that does not change the OAS opposition to European states such as Russia injecting into the affairs. The OAS is a creature of the USA and other states and thus by extension it is an operational forum for the Monroe Doctrine.

[Love Mountain]

Russian troop presence is not significant. Most likely specialized personnel and advisors. I'm expecting Russians to send more aid in an attempt to stabilize the regime. I doubt that any serious military presence will ever make it to South America. Not only does Russia lack the logistical capability for a large operation in South America, but they are trying to recover their financial exposure, they aren't trying to create more of it. I don't know how much Venezuela owes Russia, but the amount is likely in the billions.

[NorseThing]

Agreed that this is simply Russia using uniforms to assist in their distribution of their aid. If this was serious, they would not be obvious.

[swabian]

I don't see any evidence that would support such assertions. On the other hand we have rather positive track record of legalization in Europe. The notion of "substance-abuse epidemic" happening is mostly just propaganda, backed by the same groups and lobbies that make so much profits from so-called "war on drugs".

HAHAHA. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. Its acutely hilarious how you of all posters here adopts irresponsibly naive, liberal hippie-views when a heavy-handed approach is clearly necessary. I don't know where you got that BS from. Don't listen to junkies, if that's the problem - they are the most delusional of them all for obvious reasons. I know how they can come accross all savvy and street-wise with seemingly rational and realistic views on substance abuse, but in reality they are the worst bullcrappers who will show off with their dramatic anecdotes but eventually come back to rationalizing substance abuse and relativizing addiction. They can't help it. Their brains have been programmed over time to themselves over and they probably have dismal judgment in general, which is why they got addicted in the first place.

However TF this unexplicable liberal spasm took a hold of you: forget it. The world is filled with drug-swamped places that prove beyond any doubt how destructive liberal drug policies are. One rather dramatic example is Seattle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw

[Ludicus]

@ Sukyama

She wasn't lying. Modern liberals and especially neoliberals don't believe in sphere of influence

As she puts it,

And when NATO and the Western values won out and the Soviet Union collapsed peacefully one December night in 1991, there were a lot of people who questioned whether NATO would even survive. After all, the Warsaw Pact was gone. After all, the Soviet Union was gone. What was the purpose for NATO?The Alliance is also different because it is taking on new challenges...

Sure, new challenges...

We didn't go to Iraq to bring democracy to Iraq, we went to Iraq to overthrow Saddam Hussein

John Kerry in 2013, declared that "the era of the Monroe Doctrine is over, you don't in the twenty-first century behave in nineteenth century fashion by invading a neighbor"
Sure...
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@ NorseThing

Pretty much the Monroe Doctrine is whatever the current sitting President and administration state it to be

Precisely.
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Without comments,
1986 - Nicaragua - Cour internationale de Justice
2009- UN court judge quits The Hague citing political interference | Law | The ...

... John Bolton, the national security adviser to the US president, held a speech last September in which he wished death on the international criminal court,” he said.
“If these judges ever interfere in the domestic concerns of the US or investigate an American citizen, he said the American government would do all it could to ensure that these judges would no longer be allowed to travel to the United States – and that they would perhaps even be criminally prosecuted.

“The American security adviser held his speech at a time when The Hague was planning preliminary investigations into American soldiers who had been accused of torturing people in Afghanistan. The American threats against international judges clearly show the new political climate. It is shocking. I had never heard such a threat.”
Flügge said the judges on the court had been “stunned” that “the US would roll out such heavy artillery”.
“It is consistent with the new American line: ‘We are No 1 and we stand above the law,’” he said.

[Exarch]

i just think it's hilarious that the US is powerless to do anything about blatant soviet presence in latin america. That could be

[Ludicus]

I can't edit, so...Post 445. Where is "As she puts it", I was quoting the ex-State Secretary Condoleezza Rice.
--
Finally...Venezuela: Red Cross brokers Maduro-Guaidó deal to allow aid delivery

Today’s Red Cross development is clear evidence that independent shuttle diplomacy and separate negotiations with Maduro and the opposition can pay off in Venezuela,” tweeted Geoff Ramsey, a Venezuela analyst at the Washington Office on Latin America. Rocca stressed that the delivery of aid must remain "independent, neutral, impartial and unhindered”.

As we know ( from a previous post) last month Red Cross refused to send help and slammed USAID help.Christoph Harnisch, Colombia’s International Red Cross (ICRC) spokesperson, stated "We will not be participating in what is, for us, not humanitarian aid"
Humanitarian Aid Stalls..The New York Times

Caritas, the charitable arm of the Catholic Church, and the International Committee of the Red Cross have declined to participate, saying they must remain politically neutral.

Also, according to the UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric, "the Humanitarian action needs to be independent of political, military or other objectives"

[Vanoi]

That kind of logic was used in Syria too. It helped lead to the deaths of thousands.

[Ludicus]

Ah, Syria. Latin Americans fear precedent set by legal justification for Syria ...

Latin American states say that one of the most important questions in international law – when is it permissible to wage war on another country’s territory – is being settled by stealth, by a small group of military powers, with no global debate.
... the little-known “West Point group” hammered out a set of principles, including the “unwilling or unable” standard... it gives the US and others the leeway to just consistently flag Article 51 and bomb away.”

[Aexodus]

Actually Latin America mostly recognises Guaido as President.

[conon394]

i just think it's hilarious that the US is powerless to do anything about blatant soviet presence in latin america. That could be

Ain't no Soviets anymore dude. Last time the US overreacted the results were not exactly fun and chuckles. Anyway Exarch want to dig that old super computer thread you like so much?

[Vanoi]

Ah, Syria. Latin Americans fear precedent set by legal justification for Syria ...

Aexodus makes a fair point. Being politically neutral in regards to aid doesn't help anyone. Just like when the Syrian government would not allow international aid to areas they were war-siegeing. But we have to cooperate with the Syrian government right?

Not all of us are content to deny people aid under the guise of being neutral.

[Aexodus]

The president has called for the military to support him. Things seem to be escalating fast, National Guards are attacking and arresting other national guards: Twitter

[The Gurkhan]

Hah

This human waste has spent much of the last few months trying to engineer a scenario which would lead to a devastating US led attack on the very personnel he is trying to sweet talk. A total embarrassment of a human being, but nevertheless it's behaviour one would expect from a man who looks like a lowlife petty drug pusher.

Mr Guaidó, who declared himself interim president in January, called for more members of the military to help him end Mr Maduro's "usurpation" of power.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-48103858

The real conundrum is why there are so many non-Americans desperate to give Neocons and Zionists another notch on their scythe?

[Aexodus]

Unironically supporting a murderous regime because of tha gringos. Nice one.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

The real conundrum is why there are so many non-Americans desperate to give Neocons and Zionists another notch on their scythe?

Indeed, why are non americans supporting democracy? how absurd.

[NorseThing]

Trump threatens "full and complete embargo" against Cuba over Venezuela

From CNN's Nikki Carvajal
President Trump threatened that a “full and complete embargo, together with the highest-level sanctions” would be placed on Cuba if the country’s troops don’t stop its military operations in Venezuela.
“Hopefully, all Cuban soldiers will promptly and peacefully return to their island!” the President said in a series of tweets.

Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump

· 1h



If Cuban Troops and Militia do not immediately CEASE military and other operations for the purpose of causing death and destruction to the Constitution of Venezuela, a full and complete....

Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump



....embargo, together with highest-level sanctions, will be placed on the island of Cuba. Hopefully, all Cuban soldiers will promptly and peacefully return to their island.

Some background: Cuban officials have rejected the opposition group. Earlier Tuesday, Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez Parrilla tweeted that the country was standing in solidarity with President Nicolás Maduro.

https://www.cnn.com/americas/live-ne...tes/index.html


I have a bad feeling about this. Feels like I am watching Bay of Pigs Pt 2. This could end bad and not just for Maduro and the assorted Russians and Cubans scattered about. This is not what people who elected Pres. Trump had bargained for. Keep out of foreign wars and get out of foreign wars was the model many voted on.

How this ends may have a great deal to now do with the House of Representatives and potential impeachment hearings. Weird. I could not write a more challenging script that anyone would believe as possible.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I wonder, where the money for Gaido's coup is coming from? I doubt the military suddenly discover their selfless love for democracy...

[The Gurkhan]

Unironically supporting a murderous regime because of tha gringos. Nice one.

This doesn't address the very specific charges made. Namely that Neo-cons and Zionists are key drivers behind an obvious foreign backed attempt to overthrow or militarily attack the Venezuelan state. Are you denying this?

"Murderous regime" is an emotive statement with no substance behind it and can be applied to pretty much anywhere based on political bias. You could perhaps say economically incompetent, assuming one were to accept that the economic crisis is entirely the fault of the government. However we both know why you won't, as that would not in anyway justify clear attempts to openly attack Venezuela. After all no country on earth should be declared war upon and have its citizens killed by foreign invaders because of inflation or some such.
It would also be laughable because quite a few places in the world are in far worse fiscal shape yet you and other foreigners aren't frothing at the mouth for the US to topple those states.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

This doesn't address the very specific charges made. Namely that Neo-cons and Zionists are key drivers behind an obvious foreign backed attempt to overthrow or militarily attack the Venezuelan state. Are you denying this?

What does Zionism have to do with this?