Lying Liberal Media, episode 1: the kid with the MAGA hat and the native American

[Gaidin]

Now you're just moving goalposts. They went after them in the way they went after the students.

Heres the deal. Moving the goalposts happens when you get new information. If you don’t accept and account for new information you are committing the fallacy. This entire situation is a story of new information dropping on one day and the next and the next and the next. Smart posters would let this thread lie until all media had nothing to say for a week or more.

But bottom line. When you get new information, move the goalposts.

I will always account for new information from acceptable sources.

If no no new information is presented, leave the goalposts in place. With no new information to account for, moving the goalposts is then a fallacy.

[Big War Bird]

I could be wrong, but I believe Phillips said he was a 'Vietnam era veteran' which can be charitably interpreted to mean he was in during the 70's. It seems some outlets took that to mean he was a Vietnam vet.

[Gaidin]

I will not debate what “ Vietnam vet” means. To me if someone served they served. The military puts you where they want you. Someone better have a source or record saying he didn’t serve.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Stupid ,eta argument. Even if this moron old native dude was a medal of honor recipient it doesn't change the fact he acted in a moronic way in this instance. He's a liar, he has no credibility/ God how weak your argument must be if it centers on this dude.

CNN, Vox, MSNBC, NBC, Buzzfeed: all completely proven to be sources of fake news due to their journalistic failures. What a time we live in when all of these news sources are completely discredited.

You're directly promoting proven fake news. No way around that.

[Aexodus]

But he literally isn’t a veteran of Vietnam. He was never there.

[Gaidin]

You didn’t read I what said.

[Aexodus]

Smart posters would let this thread lie until all media had nothing to say for a week or more.

I mean... I don’t understand the logic here.

[Gaidin]

I mean... I don’t understand the logic here.

How many major news companies kept adding new information and kept adding new information as it was available?

When will it stop?

[Aexodus]

They didn’t do their research, and jumped to click bait conclusions, as well as calling the boys racist bigots. That is a problem.

[Gaidin]

Look man. I don’t care what your timeline is for click bait. At some point new information comes in. Goal posts legitimately move.

In this case it’s in the favor of the conservatives. Get over it.

[mongrel]

This is called prejudice, generally this is considered a negative quality in a person. I am heartened you have so accurately identified the fatal flaw in the people that jumped to the conclusion that these teen must have been in the wrong.

I see that I'm not the only person to have connected the issue with the perception that the kids were prats with a hat. Trevor Noah makes what I would say is the definitive assessment of the event. It is indeed prejudice. If only MAGA types fought against prejudice wherever it is to be found, eg against Mexicans and Muslims.

Contains bad language.

[tgoodenow]

While chanting and playing ceremonial drums, a group of Native American rights activists reportedly led by Nathan Phillips attempted Jan. 19 to enter Washington, D.C.’s Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception during a Saturday evening Mass.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...l-shrine-91038

This guy is just a professional victim looking for attention. Goes around trying to confront people and make them look bad while he does it.

[PointOfViewGun]

The initial reports from "MSM" revolved around the image of a young boy wearing a MAGA hat smirking in the face of a Native American that was chanting with a drum. What was fake about that?

[tgoodenow]

The initial reports from "MSM" revolved around the image of a young boy wearing a MAGA hat smirking in the face of a Native American that was chanting with a drum. What was fake about that?

Nah, the initial reports were that they were chanting build a wall and Trump 2020 (didn't happen), that the teens walked up and harrased him (his group approached the teens). In reality, they were called **s, the product of incest, their black friend was told that he would have his organs harvested because he was black. All this was by a bunch of Black Hebrew Israelites. The Native Americans then supposedly came to "neutralize" the situation. Not 100% sure how beating a drum in a kids face is supposed to defuse a situation. One voice is heard (likely from the Native American group) saying for the teens to to "go back to Europe" and that they "stole their land". Phillips states that he was "blocked from leaving" when the video shows he could've left at any minute.

This Phillips guy has a history of trying to incite groups then playing victim. The following day he was trying to break into a church and interrupt a mass because the church "perpetuates colonialism".

I mean this quote from Phillips is the exact opposite of what was going on:

They were in the process of attacking these four black individuals," Phillip said. "I was there and I was witnessing all of this ... As this kept on going on and escalating, it just got to a point where you do something or you walk away, you know? You see something that is wrong and you're faced with that choice of right or wrong. "

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...eo/2630256002/

Black supremacists are calling 16 year olds *** and the product of incest and somehow he tries to paint them as the victims. Likely because he thought it would help corroborate his victim hood.

[Mithradates]

He was trying to provoke conflict? That's a stretch. Why don't you tell me why you think that?

As he said/lied:

"It looked like these young men were going to attack these guys. They were going to hurt them. They were going to hurt them because they didn't like the color of their skin. They didn't like their religious views.
...
and here are American youth who are ready to, look like, lynch these guys. To be honest, they looked like they were going to lynch them. They were in this mob mentality."

"There was that moment when I realized I've put myself between beast and prey," Phillips said. "These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that."

And what the videos show:
He approached the teens, he intentionally walked into the middle of them with his entourage that was actively taunting the kids like telling them to “go back to Europe” than he walked up to Nick Sandmann and started loudly banging a drum in his face for minutes so close that you can see how the boy winks with his eyes when the drumstick barely misses him.

Phillips was hoping to bait a response out of them, when he realised that wont happen he walked away.

You realize he didn't actually say that right? Watch the video, the word "swarm" never enters the conversation. Was he surrounded? Yeah, definitely, but he's the one who made the choice to move between the students and the Black Israelites and to move through them to get to the memorial.

The Washington Post article said that, I did not watch all his interviews so yeah, also why is the "swarm" word so important?

Now you're just moving goalposts. They went after them in the way they went after the students.

If you say so.
Also lets not forget that for many people their main exposure to the news is through social media.

[Big War Bird]

I see that I'm not the only person to have connected the issue with the perception that the kids were prats with a hat. Trevor Noah makes what I would say is the definitive assessment of the event. It is indeed prejudice. If only MAGA types fought against prejudice wherever it is to be found, eg against Mexicans and Muslims.

Whataboutism

To the video - I think people wear the MAGA to make the emotionally immature flip out. Trumps policy positions are moderate, well within the bounds of American politics. It is just the way he talks that isn't moderate. I believe I've said before on this forum that Trumps nasty rhetoric is just him giving back to the "Left" what they have been saying to the "Right" for years. So every time there is a flip out over a red hat it it just illustrates the base irrationality of the Left. And what we had here were legions of Twitter verified check marks calling for the death/harassment/ruination of a smiling teenager in a red hat. That's a level paranoia to embarrass Stalin.

[Aexodus]

https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1...008576513?s=21

Not really sure what the member for Minnesota 5th was on about there...

[Big War Bird]

Any Congressman worth her salt knows that their slander is only protected when done from the Congressional floor. The targets for libel and slander suits keep on coming.

[Gaius Baltar]

I will not debate what “ Vietnam vet” means. To me if someone served they served. The military puts you where they want you. Someone better have a source or record saying he didn’t serve.

Undoubtedly his service records will be reviewed, if they exist at all. The Washington Times article posted Monday offers some interesting information ...

"Native American activist Nathan Phillips faces questions about reports that he’s a veteran of the Vietnam war.According to multiple news accounts, the activist is 64 years old, which means he would have been 18 years old in 1973, the last year any U.S. combat units were stationed in Vietnam.
Mr. Phillips also claims to be a Marine veteran, although the last Marine combat units left Vietnam in 1971.
A careful reading of Mr. Phillips‘ own descriptions does not make clear if he ever set foot in Vietnam. Instead, he has used much more careful language claiming he is a “Vietnam times veteran,” an ambiguous phrasing that led many media accounts to conclude he was a combat veteran.
Mr. Phillips could not be reached for comment Monday."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...atus-question/

[PointOfViewGun]

Nah, the initial reports were that they were chanting build a wall and Trump 2020 (didn't happen), that the teens walked up and harrased him (his group approached the teens). In reality, they were called **s, the product of incest, their black friend was told that he would have his organs harvested because he was black. All this was by a bunch of Black Hebrew Israelites. The Native Americans then supposedly came to "neutralize" the situation. Not 100% sure how beating a drum in a kids face is supposed to defuse a situation. One voice is heard (likely from the Native American group) saying for the teens to to "go back to Europe" and that they "stole their land". Phillips states that he was "blocked from leaving" when the video shows he could've left at any minute.
This Phillips guy has a history of trying to incite groups then playing victim. The following day he was trying to break into a church and interrupt a mass because the church "perpetuates colonialism".
I mean this quote from Phillips is the exact opposite of what was going on:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...eo/2630256002/
Black supremacists are calling 16 year olds *** and the product of incest and somehow he tries to paint them as the victims. Likely because he thought it would help corroborate his victim hood.

So many claims, so little to show up for. CNN's reporting, for example, merely describe what's on the video, the claim that the teens chanted "build the wall" is reported as Phillips' claim. CNN interview with Phillips also has him saying that he put himself in front of the group, that they were angry at someone else (likely the Black Hebrew Israelites) so at no point does CNN report him saying that the teens walked up to him and harassed him.

Video footage shows that (mark 1:12:20) the Native American group comes between the teens and the Black Hebrew Israelites. The Black Hebrew Israelites taunt Phillips' group for saving the kids from them. Phillips takes a few steps closer to the teens. A minute later bunch of people start to stand around Phillips. As the crowd gathers around Phillips he slowly moves around step by step. There was an other boy on his way first. That boys takes a step aside and then there is that boy standing still with the smirk. That's where it became a stand off. That comment from Phillips is only coming from Detroit Free Press article. Other news outlets also refer to the DFP for referencing that statement. I have not seen Phillips making that or a similar statement in other interviews he had.