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Thread: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

  1. #1
    El Monstero29's Avatar Miles
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    Default An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    I'm very much a fan of the AA's new Norsemen play style. Anywhere that has river or ocean access is vulnerable to their wrath. There is no better way to shake up a seemingly normal campaign than by landing the AA in Eriador and starting up a new Empire on Enedwaith's door or in Lindon. However, I lament the fact that something like that cannot happen when the player isn't controlling that faction. It would make the game so much more interesting if, let's say, 25 turns in, suddenly there is an event and a massive AA navy sails up the Gwathlo River and totally upsets the normal balance of the region!

    So, I'm wondering if anyone would be interested in a submod that does exactly that! I've been toying with the idea of writing a script that would do the following:

    1. On turn 1 there would be a random dice roll, this dice roll would determine the AA's target. Whether it be their traditional heartland of Umbar, or Enedwaith, or Gondor, or Lindon, or where ever else people think a valid target would be!

    2. Depending on the outcome of the turn 1 dice roll, there would then be a delay. The further the target is from their starting position the longer it would take for the AA to show up at that target.

    3. Once they reach their target then it would essentially do what already happens for AI controlled AA; they would be given 3 starting settlements in that region. I'm thinking I would also change the culture a bit in the region so they would be able to recruit right away as well. Ideally, these would be rebel settlements, but if they are not, then I would probably check if the settlement is held by a player controlled faction. If it is, then the player would have to defend themselves from this invasion. If it's just the AI, then they would be compelled to surrender their settlements without a fight. Depending on how far away their target is, I may give AA a few scripted bonuses to help make up for the fact that they are starting from scratch 60 turns in.

    4. I would delete the script that has AA attack Lindon on turn 90 or whatever it is. Instead, it would be up to the RNG on who gets attacked and when.

    One other change I would like to make is to expand some more rivers to make even more of the map open to naval invasions. I was thinking about extending the Harnen River another province or two East, thus opening up Khand to invasions, and I also would like to make part of the Brandywine River sailable. This would not only open up more possibilities for my script, but also give a player controlled AA even more options at the beginning.

    Outside of the map change and the script, I wouldn't touch anything else. This would almost certainly be included in my Flames in the East submod instead of stand alone. Just so I don't have two separate script altering mods to keep track of!

    I'm interested to hear what you guys think about this and if you have anything further to add! Again, I won't be making any unit changes or anything like that, just scripts.
    Last edited by El Monstero29; January 11, 2019 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Sir Matthias's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    I mean, script-wise it looks easy and idea-wise it sounds decent so I'd say go for it.

  3. #3

    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    Great idea, make it a script you can choose to activate in the beginning and it will be great. Don't think it should be auto expansion though.

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    skylli's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    I like the idea, but instead of RNG attack on turn 90 I think it would be cool if they attacked the strongest opponent thats avaliable to be attacked, with some big armies, after all they want to have the mightiest empire of all

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    Sir Matthias's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    You can already access faction rankings and you can detect regions so you could make it confined to the belegear and gwathlo alongside the anduin.

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    Tar-Falassion's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    I also think it would be easier to modify the Lindon script to become RNG, I agree with John Noble up here on this one, it shouldn't be straight auto-expansion.

    Apart from that I very much dig widening rivers further. As things are now, Enedwaith is steamrolling Eriador in pretty much all of my games, and making the Brandywine sailable would increase their difficulty a bit when their AI attacks Lindon for instance (plus it would make the Sarn Ford more relevant, since lore-wise it's the last possible crossing point of the river, hence its important location as a Dunedain outpost). And the upper Harnen is a good idea too (though I'd be in favour of widening the northern branch and not the southern, it would make conflict with Mordor more of a possibility if they actually share borders with them at some point).

    But why just stop at the Brandywine and the upper Harnen though ? Go crazy with it, make the Angren sailable too, along with the lower Ringlo !

  7. #7
    El Monstero29's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Steward Denethor II View Post
    Great idea, make it a script you can choose to activate in the beginning and it will be great. Don't think it should be auto expansion though.
    That's a good idea to make it optional at the beginning! I'm not dead set on it being auto expansion, but if it's just rebel held regions then I don't see any reason not to. We'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylli View Post
    I like the idea, but instead of RNG attack on turn 90 I think it would be cool if they attacked the strongest opponent thats avaliable to be attacked, with some big armies, after all they want to have the mightiest empire of all
    Making them attack the most powerful current faction would certainly be interesting. I'm not entirely sure how I would make that work, I'll have to look into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Matthias View Post
    I mean, script-wise it looks easy and idea-wise it sounds decent so I'd say go for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Matthias View Post
    You can already access faction rankings and you can detect regions so you could make it confined to the belegear and gwathlo alongside the anduin.
    Yeah, I think it will be kind of tedious to create the script, but the effect would be pretty cool. I don't know much about accessing faction rankings and such via script, so maybe I'll shoot you a pm about that at some point. This project will likely wait until after 2.3 comes out anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tar-Falassion View Post
    I also think it would be easier to modify the Lindon script to become RNG, I agree with John Noble up here on this one, it shouldn't be straight auto-expansion.

    Apart from that I very much dig widening rivers further. As things are now, Enedwaith is steamrolling Eriador in pretty much all of my games, and making the Brandywine sailable would increase their difficulty a bit when their AI attacks Lindon for instance (plus it would make the Sarn Ford more relevant, since lore-wise it's the last possible crossing point of the river, hence its important location as a Dunedain outpost). And the upper Harnen is a good idea too (though I'd be in favour of widening the northern branch and not the southern, it would make conflict with Mordor more of a possibility if they actually share borders with them at some point).

    But why just stop at the Brandywine and the upper Harnen though ? Go crazy with it, make the Angren sailable too, along with the lower Ringlo !
    Lol we'll just finish the Great Sea's work when it swallowed up Beleriand! All of ME will drown in the sailableness of our rivers!

    I don't actually want to go too terribly crazy with the rivers. Every province that touches the water will need a port, and every port will alter the economy of the region. I could leave the ports out, but the game creates ghost ports when you do that and that is just unseemly! If we make every river sailable then I would also need to rebalance the whole sea trade side of the building line. I'd rather not do that if I can avoid it.

    I am open to making the Northern branch of the Harnen the one that gets expanded though. I may also alter the border mountains between Mordor and Khand a bit so that there is a new pass in the South that Mordor could be accessed from. I've always thought that would be a good change anyway. I'm thinking a new pass in the Chelkar region.

  8. #8
    Sir Matthias's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    For the faction ranking just take a look at the dunland rises script.

  9. #9

    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    I like the idea of this script. When is AA supposed to land? If they "launch" at turn 0, there is at least a 3 turn travel time to Gondor and at most a 20 turn travel time to Lindon if it's approximating actual travel time via ship. Arriving this early in the campaign is good for balance (the other AI factions won't have too much of a head start) but it means you can't have them invade a fledgling AI faction right off the bat. They would have to land in between AI factions in regions that are likely to be rebel controlled. You could easily test if the settlements they attack are rebel controlled and then apply auto_win, but it's harder to test which faction controls the settlements if they're not rebel controlled.

    Or was the idea to delay the arrival longer than that? In which case, you would definitely need the culture boosts for the regions to make up for the other AI factions' head start.

    As far as targeting, you could test which faction is human controlled and then use that to pick the weighted probabilities of the landing sites. For example, if the player is a good faction in Eriador, the probability of landing at Lindon, Tharbad, etc. would be higher than for landing at the Isen, Umbar, Gondor, etc. And vice versa for when the player is an evil faction.

  10. #10
    El Monstero29's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Matthias View Post
    For the faction ranking just take a look at the dunland rises script.
    Oh yeah! Good call.


    Quote Originally Posted by Callistonian View Post
    I like the idea of this script. When is AA supposed to land? If they "launch" at turn 0, there is at least a 3 turn travel time to Gondor and at most a 20 turn travel time to Lindon if it's approximating actual travel time via ship. Arriving this early in the campaign is good for balance (the other AI factions won't have too much of a head start) but it means you can't have them invade a fledgling AI faction right off the bat. They would have to land in between AI factions in regions that are likely to be rebel controlled. You could easily test if the settlements they attack are rebel controlled and then apply auto_win, but it's harder to test which faction controls the settlements if they're not rebel controlled.

    Or was the idea to delay the arrival longer than that? In which case, you would definitely need the culture boosts for the regions to make up for the other AI factions' head start.
    I haven't really determined when the invasions should take place with any certainty. Having it happen early is good for AA since they won't have much of a developmental disadvantage, but, potentially it would be really bad for the factions in the immediate area. If AA lands in the Enedwaith region on turn 10 or something, I fear Enedwaith wouldn't stand even the remotest chance of surviving for long. On the other hand, making the invasions happen later would put AA at a technological disadvantage, however, I think I could overcome some of that by console commanding in some buildings for them in their target settlements which would give them a bit of a boost in the later stages of a campaign.

    I don't want this invasion to immediately destroy factions if I can help it, but at the same time, I don't want to make AA too easy to defeat when they do show up. Because of this, I'm leaning towards having a window of anywhere between turn 15 - 80ish where the invasion could take place. With the later invasions receiving some extra boosts to compensate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callistonian View Post
    As far as targeting, you could test which faction is human controlled and then use that to pick the weighted probabilities of the landing sites. For example, if the player is a good faction in Eriador, the probability of landing at Lindon, Tharbad, etc. would be higher than for landing at the Isen, Umbar, Gondor, etc. And vice versa for when the player is an evil faction.
    I'll need to look around in more detail at what regions aren't immediately taken via auto expansion on turn 1 to figure out what the best targets will be for each region. I'm thinking in cases like Lindon or Gondor, I will just have them seize a portion of the factions' starting domain. And instead of auto_winning the battles I will just tell them to attack, this way it won't matter if the player or AI is in control.

    I like the idea of changing the probabilities based on what faction the player is controlling. Though, that would increase the size of this script by a lot, but it would also add some nice variation too. I'll have to think about that.

    I should stress that none of the stuff I've said here is absolutely written in stone, I'm completely open to discussing any part of this. All I know for certain is that this would be cool as hell if I can make it work, but what I don't know is the best way to make it happen!

    If you, Sir Matthias, or anyone else would be interested, I'd gladly accept some help when it comes to implementing what is seemingly going to be a pretty large endeavor. I should also say that this is something I'd want to wait until after 2.3 is released to even begin.

  11. #11

    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    Problem with auto expansion is that most regions will no longer be rebel, especially the good ones. If I was in the position they will be in, I'd go for the valuable heart of the enemy, not the limbs. Better to keep it on the coast too.

    Anyways here's an idea for a list of possible targets.

    Mithlond
    Ered Luin capital
    Lond Daer
    Dol Amroth
    Pelagir
    Minas Tirith
    Harad capital
    Umber (possibly ruled by Haradrim)
    Possibly that city on the coast of South West Harondor as well

    Probably not Tharbad because it's a ruin and surrounded by nations that won't like the corsairs.

  12. #12
    Sir Matthias's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    I suggest a turn thirty or so invasion. That's about the time when I start going active instead of turtling and when the AI gets their act together

  13. #13

    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    If the objective is to have AA establish themselves somewhere (without having a fallback in Umbar) but without killing off another AI faction, then they need to land in between AI heartlands. Regions like Dol Caladir (west of Tharbad), Eryn Vorn, western Gondor, and the mouth of the Isen are good candidates. However, the longer it takes for them to arrive, the more likely it will be for them to effectively kill an AI faction when they do. For example, if they arrive at Caladir at turn 15, there probably won't be anyone there. But if they arrive turn 80, it's conceivable that by that point, it would be a serious loss for Dunland or Enedwaith's remaining territories, possibly even the new core of their empire (I have seen Dunland migrate completely into Cardolan in many campaigns).

    I concur with Matthias. I think turn ~30 should be the upper limit for their arrival so that the geopolitical boundaries haven't changed much.

    Another thing to consider is multiple invasions. I.e., if their first colony fails (I_NumberOfSettlements russia < 1), then wait a random 5-10 turns and do another invasion bigger and badder than the last one. You could even have it on a continual loop.

    I am definitely interested in helping develop this script. From everything that has been discussed so far in this thread, the script could be made modular so that it could be copy/pasted into any submods that want to use it.

  14. #14
    El Monstero29's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    I'm loving the ideas guys keep 'em coming!

    The more I think about it the more it makes sense to have the invasions happen earlier, like you guys are saying. The earlier it is the more it will potentially affect the campaign as a whole, which is the entire point of this idea. I don't want it to be a fixed turn number, though. I want there to be some element of surprise involved about when it will actually hit. I would say anywhere between turn 5 and 35 would be good and will depend on how far north the target is.

    As for targets, I think each region will have to be tailor made. I'm starting to think that we can't use a cookie cutter method for each different area of the map, since there is a lot of variation in the type of enemy AA will face in each different area. The target settlements should always be accessible via ocean or river, that should be the cardinal rule.

    Here's my thoughts for each region:

    Umbar- If the dice roll lands here then I'm thinking this would just be business as usual. They get the starting domain they get in the current version of the game. And we also activate the corsair invasion script...which I just realized will need to be disabled if they end up anywhere else. I don't want to rebuild this thing too. One giant script at a time!

    Harondor- I'm thinking we give AA a big chunk of the region if this is the target, 4 regions instead of 3 and we also make them have terrible relations with everyone in the area. Gobel Mirlond, Barad Harn, Tir Ethraid and Amon Eithel for settlements. I know Tir Ethraid doesn't have sea access, but that should be fine in this case. All of these settlements start as rebel held so this start would basically make AA a pain for everyone in the region without actually starting at war with any of them. I think it could lead to interesting results.

    Harad- Faen'obel, Tal Aljaff, and Amon Eithel would be my choices for settlements. Nothing really special for this one. It would just put AA at war with Harad and it's allies.

    Gondor and Dol Amroth- I think it would make the most sense for both of these factions to be targeted at once. So, AA would attack 2 coastal Gondorian cities and one DA city at the same time. This way, if the player is in control of either of those factions then they instantly will also have their ally's support in the war. We could also make this particular invasion a bit beefier to help AA survive. This makes the most sense to me lore wise and balance wise. As to which city's should be attacked, I'm leaning towards making it a 50/50 chance of hitting Western or Southern Gondor. Edhellond, Lond Galen, and Annulond in the West. And Pelargir, Fanuilond, and Linhir in the South.

    Enedwaith/Dunland- If this region is targeted then I propose the settlements attacked should be the two Tharbads, Argond, and Barad Vin. AA is going to outclass Enedwaith and Dunland quite badly, so I think it makes sense to have both factions targeted togther. This will give AA a decent starting position while not taking the most critical towns from either Enedwaith or Dunland. Plus, since Tharbad is an old Numenorian town I think it's fitting for AA to set up shop there. They may be ruins, but they wouldn't necessarily stay that way. AA could potentially rebuild them! AA would have a slightly reduced starting troop count here to help give the two defenders a better chance.

    Up the Brandywine- I'm thinking I'll make the Brandywine sailable up to Sackville. So, if AA targets this region they would attack Sackville, Cor Wilisher, and Metraith. Bree would almost certainly be screwed by this invasion, so I think having only one core settlement attacked would be for the best. We might also look into making this trigger Bree's merc choice earlier than normal.

    Lindon- Mithlond and Harlond would be attacked by elite AA armies. This would be one of the later firing invasions I'm thinking.

    Ered Luin- Thorin's Halls and Fahamgathol, this would essentially be a clone of the Lindon invasion.

    So that's 7 potential invasion targets. I think that's probably good. I don't really want to have them sail up the Harnen and attack Khand, because I don't think it makes sense to have them target those crappy nomadic villages, plus, Khand has it hard enough with the Blue Wizard script. So, I would just leave that up to a player controlled AA, if they want to attack there then it's an easy option.

    I'd like for Mordor to be a target too, but I'm not really sure how to do that one. They would have to come up the Anduin, but Gondor could be in control of any of the settlements on the Eastern bank, so that would be a crapshoot. So I think that will again just be up to the player.

    I'm not sure how I feel about having the invasions be recurring. I'm leaning towards balancing it in such a way that they are guaranteed to win at least one town in every invasion they undertake. By that I mean to say that one army would just be a full stack of decent troops that would always win an autoresolve. So, the player could potentially win, but the AI would lose everytime. Doing it this way would mean they couldn't completely fail an invasion. That said, I'm not opposed to having a fail safe built in that would trigger another invasion if the first failed. Though, I would want to limit it to two total invasions. I don't think they should just keep pooring men into a war they can't win.

  15. #15
    Sir Matthias's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    Doesn't seem hard to do.

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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    The idea with recurring invasions is that they wouldn't be guaranteed to win, neither by auto_win nor massive stack. They could be repelled and come back until they establish a foothold. They would only need to target 1 or 2 regions since they can come back instead of targeting 3 or 4 which has a higher chance of messing with other AI factions and feels more artificial. If the southern Black Numenorean empire really were trying to establish themselves in northern Middle-earth, I don't see why they would just send one massive army instead of a series of colonial expeditions. After all, they would be aware that large regions of northern Middle-earth are sparsely inhabited and ripe for the taking. We could also tune and randomize the time between invasions. It could provide a bit of a challenge for the player through the entire campaign.

    The script that we're discussing so far is essentially the Lindon script but with more locations and without AA having a fallback in Umbar. The problem with the Lindon script is that it's static. As soon as the player retakes Mithlond, AA's threat is completely neutralized (until the late game when the player finally makes it down to Umbar, but with the proposed script, this wouldn't exist either). Without scripting progressively larger armies, AA's first colony is most likely to succeed. All the subsequent colonization attempts would really just be "spicing up" the coastal regions in the mid-late-campaign, reminding the western Middle-earth player than the coast is still vulnerable.

  17. #17

    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    Looks like I'm late to the party and have nothing to offer but my opinion, but here it is:

    I would look at what people expect. The AA are (at least partially) what was the umbarim faction. We expect them to be pirates who live in Umbar and raid the coasts. The AA of course have much more potential when controlled by the player, but I don't think this has to be used for the AI.

    IMO the biggest problem with AI AA right know in 2.2 is that they just steamroll Dol Amroth EVERY ING TIME. At least in my games which may not be representative.

    So what would be a really fun way for them (unfortunately I'm not sure wether this is possible in med2) is to act exactly like the Norsca factions in TW:WH.

    AI AA gets Umbar right at the start but stays there. They don't send those massive armies straight to Dol Amroth but leave the fun for Harad, Mordor and probably Khand.

    Instead, every 10 turns or so they send a raiding party at one of those wonderful random destinations (of course biased against player-held provinces) but not to take them but just raid and pillage.

    The only way to stop those annoying raids would be to get to Umbar and destroy the faction there.

    This way there are no worries about balancing the destinations and they add a constant tension to the game.

  18. #18
    Sir Matthias's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    AA are the black numenoreans of the far south, not umbarim (much to my dismay, I liked the umbar faction). So the idea of them wanting to just settle for umbar wouldn't be in their "character" so to speak.

  19. #19

    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    Apologies for not being clear enough here.

    I didn't mean their lore-wise heritage but more gameplay kind of heritage; They in fact did replace the umbar faction.
    However they inherited the corsair units and the black ships.

    So IMO nothing wrong with letting the AI go full "Corsairs of Umbar" style with this faction while the player retains the freedom the Black Numenoreans offer.

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    El Monstero29's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: An idea to make Ar Adunaim play a larger role in the campaign when controlled by the AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Callistonian View Post
    The idea with recurring invasions is that they wouldn't be guaranteed to win, neither by auto_win nor massive stack. They could be repelled and come back until they establish a foothold. They would only need to target 1 or 2 regions since they can come back instead of targeting 3 or 4 which has a higher chance of messing with other AI factions and feels more artificial. If the southern Black Numenorean empire really were trying to establish themselves in northern Middle-earth, I don't see why they would just send one massive army instead of a series of colonial expeditions. After all, they would be aware that large regions of northern Middle-earth are sparsely inhabited and ripe for the taking. We could also tune and randomize the time between invasions. It could provide a bit of a challenge for the player through the entire campaign.

    The script that we're discussing so far is essentially the Lindon script but with more locations and without AA having a fallback in Umbar. The problem with the Lindon script is that it's static. As soon as the player retakes Mithlond, AA's threat is completely neutralized (until the late game when the player finally makes it down to Umbar, but with the proposed script, this wouldn't exist either). Without scripting progressively larger armies, AA's first colony is most likely to succeed. All the subsequent colonization attempts would really just be "spicing up" the coastal regions in the mid-late-campaign, reminding the western Middle-earth player than the coast is still vulnerable.
    I think I should explain where I got this idea from, I probably should have done that in the first place. In Crusader Kings 2 there is a dlc called Sunset Invasion, this dlc adds an optional scripted invasion to the game that makes a giant Aztec army invade Europe from the West. This army is guaranteed to win it's first attack as they are given ridiculously powerful event troops. After this invasion happens, the Aztecs are then a very real threat to all the surrounding factions. It can alter the way a campaign plays completely. There is no second wave of invasion troops if the first is destroyed. Once the Aztec scum are gone they stay gone.

    I should also mention that this dlc is universally panned as the worst of the lot for that game, and I don't use it myself. But the idea behind it is absolutely perfect for the AA, in my opinion.

    So, the way I imagine this script working is to give AA a guaranteed foothold somewhere in Middle Earth. From which, they can expand and alter the campaign however they may. With the goal being that other factions don't just immediately implode, but rather they are put to a new test that they would normally never face. I want the AI controlled AA to be able to start a campaign almost anywhere and then see how that changes a campaign overall. It will throw a monkey wrench into a normal campaign and alter the outcome to, what I think, would be almost unrecognizable to what we have now in 2.2 DAC.

    I feel that small incurring raids like you describe would just feel like an extension of the Corsair Invasion script. If we made the script with small raids that slowly build overtime then we would also need to script in a way for the player to make the raids stop. If they spawn indefinitely from an off map location like the far south then that would feel far more artificial to me than a single large invasion. I

    That said, something I would be in favor of would be reworking the corsair invasion script so that it could work based on the location AA end up establishing themselves in. They would be able to send small raids from whatever their new capitol is and the player could stop the raids by capturing that capitol just like that script works now. BUT, I feel this script would need to come after we get the primary invasion script working. This would do what you said, make the coast vulnerable even after the initial invasion, but I just think that would be a better way to go about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Auerode View Post
    Looks like I'm late to the party and have nothing to offer but my opinion, but here it is:

    I would look at what people expect. The AA are (at least partially) what was the umbarim faction. We expect them to be pirates who live in Umbar and raid the coasts. The AA of course have much more potential when controlled by the player, but I don't think this has to be used for the AI.

    IMO the biggest problem with AI AA right know in 2.2 is that they just steamroll Dol Amroth EVERY ING TIME. At least in my games which may not be representative.

    So what would be a really fun way for them (unfortunately I'm not sure wether this is possible in med2) is to act exactly like the Norsca factions in TW:WH.

    AI AA gets Umbar right at the start but stays there. They don't send those massive armies straight to Dol Amroth but leave the fun for Harad, Mordor and probably Khand.

    Instead, every 10 turns or so they send a raiding party at one of those wonderful random destinations (of course biased against player-held provinces) but not to take them but just raid and pillage.

    The only way to stop those annoying raids would be to get to Umbar and destroy the faction there.

    This way there are no worries about balancing the destinations and they add a constant tension to the game.
    I'd say what you're describing is a massively beefed up version of the Corsair Invasion script that already exists. I could see some merits in using the Corsair Script to accomplish what I want. But something I don't like about this is that it would give AA territories scattered all over the map. The AI is not good at dealing with a situation like that. The campaign AI functions best when its realm is all connected together. I fear that scattering AA all over the map would end up being more annoying than anything. They'd just hold random cities here and there but they would be very unlikely to be able to expand from those conquests. Their expansion would be entirely dependent on the script armies. I don't think that would lead to very fun gameplay, honestly.

    It is possible to make AA not attack Northward into DA, but that would require us to change their AI preset to "passive" which would only compound the problem of them not doing anything.

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