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Thread: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

  1. #1

    Default Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Just made the switch from EB1 to EB2 recently. Love the new systems, especially recruitment mechanics and non-psychotic diplomacy. Finally can have a sensible game. Very fine job overall.

    But...

    Just a quick whine about the animations - I realize this is a M2TW issue, but I really think the animation speed in RTW was much better. Everything now seems like it's in slow motion. The units don't look like actual men moving around fighting now. Charges are very underwhelming. It really detracts from the immersion, is there any feasible way to speed the animations up to RTW levels? It's especially pronounced with cavalry, it's looks like they are under water.

    Now to topic of thread..

    I started playing Pahlava as almost always, finally got the reforms (one city had to console a final 300 pop to get to city size so I could build the required farm level as couldn't see any other way to get there - Rhagae - might want to look at that). So I'm getting excited to access more Parthian units, but nothing shows up. I guess it must be tied to turns elapsed or later buildings or something. So I check the recruitment viewer, but it seems there are basically no new units after the reforms besides more access to some filthy Greek types and such?

    No improved cataphracts

    Access to Daha cavalry removed with nothing to replace them besides inferior Parthian HAs

    Budget Hellenic infantry that seems to have worse stats and fewer men than the eastern spearmen you can access from the start

    But worst of all, my favorite unit by far from EB1, Pahlava Noble Medium Cavalry, has disappeared


    So now it looks like the only real Pahlava specific elite units you have are cataphracts? All of the others are local levies accessible to other factions, not counting the HAs which are inferior to other recruit-able types you need to give up when you reform. Even the cataphract HAs are gone, though I never used those anyway.

    Will any of the above be changed in future?

    Thanks for the massive work that's gone into this mod.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Just like every other faction, the Pahlava are still incomplete because they're still being worked on.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Ok, cool. I wasn't sure how far along the mod was.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Firstly, and I seem to keep needing to repeat this, EBII is not simply EB1 ported to a new engine. The sooner people stop expecting things to be remotely similar, or for EB1 to be suggestive of what will be in EBII, the sooner their expectations will become appropriate. Nothing has "disappeared" or been "removed", it's a different game and you can't simply copy units across from RTW to M2TW - and even if we were able to, there are many units in EB1 which don't meet the standards expected in EBII.

    Pahlava's reforms have nothing whatsoever to do with units, it's about the types of governments available to them and how they can administer captured lands. The changes to their roster with the new governments reflect the new ability to levy troops from settled regions, which are unsurprisingly comprised of locals from those regions. This enables an Imperial Pahlava to field armies equivalent to the Seleukids, including Greek heavy infantry (which is generally the best of that type available in the east).

    Faction-specific units are a rarity, if you are hoping for this in EBII you'll be sorely disappointed. Those factions that have anything exclusive have no more than one or at most two units that fall into that category. Other steppe factions, with the right governments in the right places, can recruit Parthian Cataphracts, for example. Just as Pahlava can recruit theirs. There are still eastern steppe units to come, including the Dahan Nobles, but they won't be Pahlava-only units, but regional ones available to anyone in the right location with the right kind of administration.

    I don't understand the complaint about "inferior horse archers", the Dahan Riders never disappear.

    If you're having trouble getting a settlement to grow, chances are you need to change the governor to one who has traits which are more pro-growth than the incumbent.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  5. #5

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Fair enough re expectations for the game - I will keep that in mind. Just wanted confirmation on whether this is incomplete or intentional. If other factions are done like that it's not so bad.

    Greek heavy infantry? You mean the eastern Thureophoroi? They have less men and less attack than eastern spearmen (available from start), less shield, a point more armor or something, same (bad) morale. Can also recruit cannon fodder levy phalangites. I'd rather raise eastern spearmen units, renowned throughout the world for being crap infantry. If I'm missing something and Pahlava can recruit actual hellenic infantry that is better or cheaper than eastern natives let me know.

    I must say that area specific recruitment seems more historically accurate to me.

    Re growth I was looking for a governor who could give a growth bonus but couldn't find one, still getting used to the new systems in EB2.

    Re animation speed / sluggishness, any way to change that?

    Anyway, thanks for reply. Don't take criticism the wrong way, I'm a huge fan of the mod, just trying to figure things out.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    The only thing missing from Pahlava's roster are eastern steppe units, which are predominantly cavalry. As far as infantry goes, what they have is what there is. With the Satrapeia Philellenike (only available in settlements which already have a polis present) you can recruit an imitation of what the polis normally offers - as in actual Greek units. They're better than eastern natives, though not cheaper. However, the closer to Syria you are, the better the available units.

    Certain traits and ancillaries boost population growth. Have a browse of the EDCT/EDA to find the ones concerned.

    Nothing you can do about animation speed - it's linked to movement speed - short of changing that of each unit listed in the EDU.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  7. #7

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Saying the only thing missing from Pahlava's roster is steppe cavalry is like saying the only thing missing from Rome's roster is legionnaires. Great cavalry and HAs define the faction. You put up with rubbish infantry to have excellent heavy cavalry and HAs.

    Just checked again and it seems on building Parthian satrapies I can no longer recruit any HAs whatsoever on the Iranian plateau, not even the standard 'Parthian horse archers'. If I want HAs I need to ship dahas from a couple of provinces way over in the east and recruitment could never keep up to give the right historical composition of Parthian armies.

    What I can recruit in the core territories with satraps are Greek levies and some assorted outdated lance cavalry, no HAs. With the royal satrapy it's the same plus cataphracts.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    No, I said the eastern steppe units are missing, not all the cavalry. If you want Sakans and other good horse archers, you need to go to source, where you should be building the Settled Nomadic Territory.

    But yes, you have to bring them, you won't settle your horse archers deep in Iran, beyond a handful with the Nomadic Enclave building (which is mutually exclusive with the Foreign Colony in 2.35 - not to be the case with later versions). Welcome to the real problem steppe invaders had when conquering settled territories - you can't feed horse herds on corn.

    No different to the problem the Romans had with only having legionaries coming out of Italy itself. That's part of the challenge of playing any faction, that your core roster often comes from a specific place and you can't simply set up shop wherever you like and start churning them out.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  9. #9

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Yes but Pahlava's core roster cannot be produced on their core territories, this is the difference with Rome. Pahlava start with one province and generally expands into Iran. They then find they can't produce their 'core' troops (HAs) anywhere other than in steppe territory, of which they have very little. If you look at the historical extend of the Parthian empire it is Iran with very little steppe territory. Yet they fielded hordes of HAs consistently and they showed up far to the west. This cannot be replicated in game from a one or two province supply.

    I don't want to be able to churn out core faction troops everywhere, just in the core would be nice.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Why don't you strike out into western steppe then? There are excellent units to be had there...in fact, Alan and Sarmatian nobles are, IMO, best HA/medium cavalry in game.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Because if I wanted to play a steppe faction I would just do that. I like to play Pahlava historically and stick to historical expansion areas, and historically composed armies.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Three provinces, Parthaiya, Astauene and Dahyu Daha will all churn out large numbers of Dahan and Parthian Riders with either an Allied Clan, Royal Clan or Settled Nomadic Territory government. Mazsakatai Ubastra will give you Alan Riders (they should be Mazsakatans, but we don't have them yet).

    You get them to the west by moving them there. That's without looking further north-east, or at the western steppe. Or the mercenary roster.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  13. #13

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    It seems I can't build satrap governments in a lot of the Iranian provinces, and it doesn't show on the building browser. Some of them only have options for nomad, or border march, or Hellenic. What am I getting wrong? I think I meet the culture requirements in those cities for a satrap.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Camcolit View Post
    It seems I can't build satrap governments in a lot of the Iranian provinces, and it doesn't show on the building browser. Some of them only have options for nomad, or border march, or Hellenic. What am I getting wrong? I think I meet the culture requirements in those cities for a satrap.
    Only the major settlements can be Satrapies - those with the hidden_resource satrapy. Outside that, yes your options are more limited.

    This isn't EB1, you don't have total freedom in where you establish your best governments.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  15. #15

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Well 'Border March' is not really a government at all?

    From in-game text - 'Quick fix' 'Once pacified, this province can be promoted to satrap status with more options available'

    So this is false?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Camcolit View Post
    Well 'Border March' is not really a government at all?

    From in-game text - 'Quick fix' 'Once pacified, this province can be promoted to satrap status with more options available'

    So this is false?
    Sounds like an old description, which wasn't updated, not everywhere can be promoted to satrap status.

    Beyond that, the Border March is a perfectly serviceable government, giving a decent tithe of local manpower. Only the Migration qualifies as "not really a government at all".
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  17. #17

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Ok, thanks.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Pahlava - Where are my lovely units!? :(

    Won't there be "late" units for the Parthians like the armored HAs and the late versions of the kataphracts, like the Grivpanar? I feel like that they were an important part of this faction's gameplay in EB1 and we are still lacking in EB2.

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