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Thread: US Government Shutdown

  1. #321
    Praepositus
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Anyway Trump had offered an extension of the legal status of Temporary Protected Status holders, it was rejected. Good. It was stupid to compromise to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    ''You are sayin...?'' No.
    Trump did something stupid, but it wasn't stupid?
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  2. #322

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown



    A liberal retard posted this on reddit.

    Here's what Trump's retort should be:
    - declare national emergency, use the army to build the wall
    - scrap DACA completely, replaced by Australian style law that makes it impossible for illegal immigrants to obtain legal status and/or citizenship
    - de-fund universities, forcing administrators to scrap the ideological nonsense, divert funds to the wall
    - withdraw from NATO
    - roll-back the totality of environmental regulations
    - education reform, banning all post-modernist fields, declare degrees majoring in those fields invalid
    - abolish student debt refinancing, create an agency that collects collateral for it; if not, convert to jail time

  3. #323
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    By refusing to compromise, Democrats just shot themselves in the foot. It is interesting to see that Trump actually is willing to compromise and come up with bipartisan solutions, which comes in sharp contrast with his predecessor, who prioritized partisanship over his actual job.
    What comprise did he offer that was not less then he could have had a year ago? He has indicated for long time he views a shutdown as a tactic and cares not damn for the cost. The Democrats can't do anything but demand a CR during negotiations else they will be trapped into every budget year.

    'actual job' like running the government?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #324

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Extended status for TPS holders.

  5. #325
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post

    A liberal retard posted this on reddit. (snip)

    Here's what Trump's retort should be:
    - declare national emergency, use the army to build the wall
    - scrap DACA completely, replaced by Australian style law that makes it impossible for illegal immigrants to obtain legal status and/or citizenship
    - de-fund universities, forcing administrators to scrap the ideological nonsense, divert funds to the wall
    - withdraw from NATO
    - roll-back the totality of environmental regulations
    - education reform, banning all post-modernist fields, declare degrees majoring in those fields invalid
    - abolish student debt refinancing, create an agency that collects collateral for it; if not, convert to jail time
    Well in a generous mood this morning. However its good post if you are going to throw long why not dream.


    How about this the wall for a return to IKE era tax rates in the US. Money gained to spend on anything but the military until it reforms its spending a acquisition methods such that it can no admit to loosing 800 million dollars in a year or not figure out how much money it wasted in Iraq or A-stan. Personally I say at minimum restore pre 1980s funding to the NIH and NSF. I can't see how legalizing pot does not make sense (I would add prostitution and cocaine as well.)

    But this is all beside the point the government simply should not shutdown. I would give trump the wall money I suppose for a law designating a standard inflation adjusted CR automatically when no budget is passed. Then at least this fiasco cannot happen again no matter who you think is to blame.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #326
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post


    A liberal retard posted this on reddit.

    Here's what Trump's retort should be:
    - declare national emergency, use the army to build the wall
    - scrap DACA completely, replaced by Australian style law that makes it impossible for illegal immigrants to obtain legal status and/or citizenship
    - de-fund universities, forcing administrators to scrap the ideological nonsense, divert funds to the wall
    - withdraw from NATO
    - roll-back the totality of environmental regulations
    - education reform, banning all post-modernist fields, declare degrees majoring in those fields invalid
    - abolish student debt refinancing, create an agency that collects collateral for it; if not, convert to jail time
    That would be far more stupid and detrimental to US citizens' interests and wellbeing than the somewhat wishful screed you quoted. Im embarrassed for you that you just got rolled by your own straw man.

    If this idiot wall was such a great idea why wasn't it passed when Trump has the numbers? He wants the US divided, same old red-blue . He's just another swamp creature, one that's pretty bad at it too.

    BTW not sure you understand the "Australian style law", it doesn't work how you seem to imagine it does.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  7. #327

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post


    How about this the wall for a return to IKE era tax rates in the US. Money gained to spend on anything but the military until it reforms its spending a acquisition methods such that it can no admit to loosing 800 million dollars in a year or figure out how much money it wasted in Iraq or A-stan. Personally I say at minimum restore pre 1980s funding to the NIH and NSF. I can't see how legalizing pot does not make sense would (I add prostitution and cocaine as well.)

    But this is all beside the point thew government simply should not shutdown. I would give trump the wall money I suppose for a law designating a standard inflation adjusted CR automatically when no budget is passed. Then at least this fiasco cannot happen again no matter who think is to blame.
    They won't work. We can do that btw, so that you guys realize the problem with them.

    Here's why:

    You look at the history of US income taxes, the first hike is in 1917 from 15% to 67%. It's because of WW1. It goes down in 1922 (end of the war), up in 1932 (New Deal), up again in the 40s (WW2) and 50s (preparation for WW3 when the Warzaw Pact happened), then they go down from the 60s, spiral further during the Reagan era. Since that, you have radical free movement of capital and tax havens. Most ultra wealthy also have their wealth increased because the value of the assets they own increases, not because of income. When it's income, before the tax man can touch it, it's paid in options, preferred stocks or similar financial instruments.

    In short:
    -you don't have a war economy, nor the national solidarity that makes the rich willing to pay that much of income tax; the US is a low social cohesion country
    -even if they did, there's still the incentive to divert income from tax havens
    -even if they didn't exist, wealth increase for the rich goes primarily through financial instruments and income is taxed after that, not before

    Honestly, progressive that want income tax increases first need to have a talk with Hollywood celebrities that campaign for it on social media and then evade taxes anyway. Until that happens, it's pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    That would be far more stupid and detrimental to US citizens' interests and wellbeing than the somewhat wishful screed you quoted. Im embarrassed for you that you just got rolled by your own straw man.

    If this idiot wall was such a great idea why wasn't it passed when Trump has the numbers? He wants the US divided, same old red-blue . He's just another swamp creature, one that's pretty bad at it too.

    BTW not sure you understand the "Australian style law", it doesn't work how you seem to imagine it does.
    Next time I'm putting a trigger warning for you.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; Today at 07:00 AM.

  8. #328
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Nonetheless, Trump’s approval among hispanics is rising because of his stance on the border, same as it did last time in June when there was an incident.
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  9. #329
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Since that, you have radical free movement of capital and tax havens.
    Are you aware of the Jones act? Look it up

    Simply do the same for banking make it illegal as American to hide you money, stop cutting the IRS budget so that it the staff to enforce the law. Impose a transfer tax or penalty on moving your money to a tax haven.

    -even if they didn't exist, wealth increase for the rich goes primarily through financial instruments and income is taxed after that, not before
    A capital gain is income I not sure I see you point. If happens (gain) and you are an American welcome to the IRS.

    Most ultra wealthy also have their wealth increased because the value of the assets they own increases, not because of income. When it's income, before the tax man can touch it, it's paid in options, preferred stocks or similar financial instruments.
    All that requires again is simple altering the tax to be properly efficient.

    In any case the skew in both wealth and income demand higher tax rates and reduction at the lower end of the brackets. A higher estate tax as well.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  10. #330

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Are you aware of the Jones act? Look it up
    You mean this one?
    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/jonesact.asp

    I'm missing your point here.
    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Simply do the same for banking make it illegal as American to hide you money, stop cutting the IRS budget so that it the staff to enforce the law. Impose a transfer tax or penalty on moving your money to a tax haven.
    Problem is, it's already there. Cayman and similar places. Whenever it's brought back to the US, it's through philantropic foundations. Why do you think Soros put his 18 bn Dollars into Open Society? So that the IRS can barely touch it.



    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post

    A capital gain is income I not sure I see you point. If happens (gain) and you are an American welcome to the IRS.
    Due to the bs rules ongoing, short term capital gains are treated differently from long term and before the IRS can touch them most rich simply reinvest it into assets, which increase the value of the asset itself, makes the rich richer and you still can't touch them.


    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    All that requires again is simple altering the tax to be properly efficient.

    In any case the skew in both wealth and income demand higher tax rates and reduction at the lower end of the brackets. A higher estate tax as well.
    Now you are (almost) getting it. You don't need to tax income (as in the flow of wealth), you need to tax wealth (as in the stock), especially when it comes to inheritance. Seriously, I can make an argument for a 150% inheritance tax for billionaires.

    Other than that, you need to embargo tax havens, otherwise it's not going to work. That'd also require a major argument with the UK since the most popular tax havens are oversea territories of the British crown.

  11. #331
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    you need to embargo tax havens
    That was my point on the Jones act. W/O it all ships in the US would likely be foreign flagged.

    Move to make tax havens illegal or circumvent them - Americans have to bank with accepted us banks under us law.

    Due to the bs rules ongoing, short term capital gains are treated differently from long term and before the IRS can touch them most rich simply reinvest it into assets, which increase the value of the asset itself, makes the rich richer and you still can't touch them.
    All capital gains are taxed when they are realized. On this point I would say yes you can not realize you investment gains and simply if you are wealthy enough use the asset for credit but you legally supposed to be going to be taxed for the gain realized. Obviously all too many wealthy people have too many good accountants that can fix that. I would defiantly favor tax simplification for that reason. But more importantly not the insistent drum beat to lower or remove the estate tax. Fine hide you wealth all your life but pay up to country when you are having the final boat ride.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  12. #332

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    That was my point on the Jones act. W/O it all ships in the US would likely be foreign flagged.

    Move to make tax havens illegal or circumvent them - Americans have to bank with accepted us banks under us law.
    The safest way is to:
    a) block flights/ships etc directed to them, people, goods etc.
    b) anyone caught having an account in such places loses everything he owns in the US

    It isn't even that hard but there's no will behind it.


    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    All capital gains are taxed when they are realized. On this point I would say yes you can not realize you investment gains and simply if you are wealthy enough use the asset for credit but you legally supposed to be going to be taxed for the gain realized. Obviously all too many wealthy people have too many good accountants that can fix that. I would defiantly favor tax simplification for that reason. But more importantly not the insistent drum beat to lower or remove the estate tax. Fine hide you wealth all your life but pay up to country when you are having the final boat ride.
    There are ''swaps'' and other instruments that allow for an immediate reinvesting. I highly recommend reading ''Rich Dad Poor Dad'' since everyone in the financial world reading and it's the foundation of the mentality. I'm not even disagreeing with you, but as it is right now there are infinite loopholes to be exploited and this is why I suggest to focus on wealth rather than income. The simpler, the better. If something is 200 pages, then 198 are loopholes.

  13. #333

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Extended status for TPS holders.
    A permanent structure for merely extended status? I think you don't know how this works. That needs to be permanently resolved to have a shot at a wall.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  14. #334

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    It's dead anyway. Nancy said no. I forgot to add to my list:
    -defund the UN, use money to add laser guided turrets with machine guns on the WallTM


  15. #335
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    It's dead anyway. Nancy said no. I forgot to add to my list:
    -defund the UN, use money to add laser guided turrets with machine guns on the WallTM

    Silliness aside why do think a wall should be a priority of the myriad things the US could spend on, and why is it worth shuttering the government.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  16. #336

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    It'd close the discussion on one of the most divisive and polarizing topics.Then indeed you can move to something else.

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