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Thread: US Government Shutdown

  1. #381

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    But then what happens when the aggressor is claiming to be the one who was attacked first? The Nazis didn't just decide to kill Jews because they thought they were icky or gross, they claimed the Jews were trying to exterminate the Aryan race.

    I should also add that even before that, the Turks justified their genocide of Armenians by claiming that the Armenians betrayed them in their early campaigns in WW1. They were just a scapegoat to cover for incompetence, but the Turks genuinely believed that they were being undermined and even attacked by the Armenians. Ergo, mass extermination is now acceptable. You see the problem with this line of thinking?
    Last edited by The spartan; Today at 06:52 PM.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  2. #382

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    The Nazis didn't just decide to kill Jews because they thought they were icky or gross, they claimed the Jews were trying to exterminate the Aryan race.
    Ummm...yea...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Wielu%C5%84
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Westerplatte

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  3. #383
    Harley_Quinn's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Hitler feared, the Germans could revolt, if the German Empire starts the war without being attacked.

    So the SS arranged the Gleiwitz Incident:

    The Gleiwitz incident (German: Überfall auf den Sender Gleiwitz; Polish: Prowokacja gliwicka) was a covert Nazi German attack on the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz on the night of 31 August 1939 (today Gliwice, Poland). The attack is widely regarded as a false flag operation, staged with some two dozen similar German incidents on the eve of the invasion of Poland leading up to World War II in Europe.[1] The attackers had been posed as Polish nationals. Adolf Hitler invaded Poland the next morning after a lengthy period of preparations. During his declaration of war, Hitler did not mention the Gleiwitz incident but grouped all provocations staged by the SS as an alleged Polish assault on Germany. The Gleiwitz incident is the best-known action of Operation Himmler, a series of special operations undertaken by the Schutzstaffel (SS) to serve Nazi German propaganda at the outbreak of war. The operation was intended to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany to justify the invasion of Poland. Evidence for the Gleiwitz attack by the SS was provided by the German SS officer, Alfred Naujocks in 1945.[1]

    ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
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  4. #384
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    You have a good point, but I still find it hypocritical of certain dems who voted for a fence 5 years ago to turn around now and say walls are immoral.
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  5. #385

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I never meant to imply the Nazis' were correct, but they did certainly seem to see Jewish conspiracies everywhere, mostly in Communism. So they claimed to be acting defensively when really they were the aggressors. In their opinion, they were attacked first. It is messed up.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  6. #386

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    I never meant to imply the Nazis' were correct, but they did certainly seem to see Jewish conspiracies everywhere, mostly in Communism. So they claimed to be acting defensively when really they were the aggressors. In their opinion, they were attacked first. It is messed up.
    Well, I only meant to present the first step. Which the Nazi's did dress up as getting attacked first, last I checked. I will defer to a history specialist.

    Their dealing with the Jewish society went way back into the thirties I believe and didn't start at 1939(when the war started) and was a lot more intricate than....well...war. Apologies.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  7. #387

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    There was the Gleiwitz incident in which the Nazis faked a Polish attack, but I am speaking more the overall ideology of the Nazi party, which involved viewing their race as eternally at war with the Jewish race and so Jews were responsible for bad things happening in Germany. The Stab-in-the-Back myth made popular after WW1 was particularly influential.

    The point in regards to Basil is that some of the most horrific things people have done have been claimed to have been in self-defense for perceived wrongs. Jumping to handle it violently hasn't worked well.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  8. #388

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    So your big priorities mostly focus on hurting people? Do you think you are the good guy in all of this?
    What an awful argument. Change your valuse from some sort of emotional response to a practical response and you'll see you're not the good guy in all of this, despite what CNN claims you are. Who are you hurting? By every measure it is Americans over immigrants. So congrats, you are actually screwing over your fellow countrymen but the media has brainwashed people to such an extent that this same brainwashing will be considered a social virtue.
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  9. #389

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    You have a good point, but I still find it hypocritical of certain dems who voted for a fence 5 years ago to turn around now and say walls are immoral.
    The last time a bill of this type actually got voted for was under Bush. You can mostly thank your majority leaders that didn't want Obama to succeed at anything. See, Obama was willing to negotiate. Well...too bad for 5 years ago. You're looking at something like 13 years ago. Do your math right.

    At the moment what's the negotiating point? Open the government. Game. Set. Match.

    And what has everybody in this thread missed? Trump split the Republican Party. The Capitol will talk while the people will rant. You all posters have fun with that development.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  10. #390

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    What an awful argument. Change your valuse from some sort of emotional response to a practical response and you'll see you're not the good guy in all of this, despite what CNN claims you are. Who are you hurting? By every measure it is Americans over immigrants. So congrats, you are actually screwing over your fellow countrymen but the media has brainwashed people to such an extent that this same brainwashing will be considered a social virtue.
    First, I don't read or watch CNN. Secondly, I am not supporting policies of violence, property seizure, or extra-judicial justice. This is not the first time you have prescribed positions for me, but if you want to quote me on supporting such policies, feel free to do so. And I don't mean an assbackwards twisting of words; something like "because you don't want to mass deport all illegal immigrants immediately means you want to hurt Americans!". Basil actively wants war. He wants people to shoot at each other and kill each other. That is incredibly different.

    I should also add that I don't want my political opponents to suffer. I don't want to cause them angst or hurt them out of some misguided sense of justice. I am not going to just give in to their demands, but I want other Americans to be well.
    Last edited by The spartan; Today at 08:22 PM.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  11. #391

    Default Re: US Government Shutdown

    Well then I apologize. Your views are clearly more moderate than what I assumed they would be.
    Roads go ever ever on,
    Over rock and under tree,
    By caves where never sun has shone,
    By streams that never find the sea

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