Returning after years - Overwhelming differences

[Alwyn]

I was asking about different factions than mine.

I want to cause my enemies to have a civil war, so I can take up the pieces. Or, in my case, buy some time.

Oh, I see, I'm sorry for misunderstanding. I could be wrong, but I don't think that AI factions have civil wars. You could try using a dignitary with the Persuasive trait to bribe an enemy commander to join your faction, which would be a small step in that direction if it worked.

I expect this to change as I have to hire generals from the other families. Is the only way to get generals\politicians in your family adoption and having children (That would grow up in like 15 years = 15 x 12 = 180 turns = end of the campaign) ?
[Am I to end up with like 3-4 generals\admirals out of like 15 from my party? That would be horrible in case of secession.

Does it matter whether they're in your family, if they're in your party?

[alhoon]

Ehh... I can have generals (without adoption) in my party that are not of my family? That would be good.

About secessions to other people: But I have seen sessionists in previous games. Rebel factions that have become quite powerful. Is the only way to cause a civil war to cause province loyalty to drop and then assist the rebels?

[Alwyn]

Ehh... I can have generals (without adoption) in my party that are not of my family? That would be good.

Yes, you can. Here's the Characters screen from a Cimmeria campaign.



The column on the right (headed Other Nobles) are members of my ruling party, but not members of my family. The character at the top of the list is a general. You can add to the Other Nobles list using Hire Politicans (although politicians of your own party are not always available.)

About secessions to other people: But I have seen sessionists in previous games. Rebel factions that have become quite powerful. Is the only way to cause a civil war to cause province loyalty to drop and then assist the rebels?

Were they secessions or rebellions? If you're referring to previous games, I wonder if you're thinking of rebellions.

As you know, a rebellion happens when public order gets too low for too long in a region. When this happens, a rebel army appears in the region. If the rebel army takes the region capital, this becomes a rebel region. This happens both in previous games and in Rome II.

A secession happens when loyalty gets too low in a rival party. When loyalty gets too low, there is a percentage chance (shown on the politics screen) that a secession will occur. If a secession happens, then the regions governed by the rival party will break away and form a seccesionist faction. (Have you used the filter on the map to see which regions are governed by rival parties?) Usually several regions break away at the same time. Armies and fleets commanded by members of the rival party usually break away too; if they don't have any (or have hardly any) forces, then secessionist armies will spawn. I've only seen this happen in Rome II and only to the player's faction.

You asked if there's a way to cause a province's loyalty to drop and assist the rebels. It sounds like you're looking for an equivalent of the Monk's Incite Revolt ability in Shogun II, is that right? You can see Carthage's agent abilities by following links here. I think the one you're looking for is the Disruption trait of Carthaginian spies which allows them to Incite Unrest, reducing public order in the enemy city by between -20 and -60, depending on the skill level of the spy. Ideally, you'd probably a second spy deployed in the region (I believe this increases the chance of success for other spies attempting actions in the region; it may also help to protect other spies from enemy agents), or perhaps to Incite Unrest as well.

Of course, you may also want to reduce public order by deploying a dignitary in an enemy region (just checking - do you know that it's necessary to click a button on the agent's panel to deploy them in a region? I didn't realise this initially) and giving them the traits which maximise cultural conversion.

[alhoon]

I would prefer if there was a secession among my enemies. Rebels as you describe them are hostile to everyone and I would have to go over there and make the area either mine or a client state etc.

Dropping the province stability is not that hard for me, because I have a mod that allows me to sack (loot without occupy) installed. I can go to a province and wreck it and then keep the armies of the enemy away so that the rebels take it over. But if I do that, I won't be able to trade with the rebels etc.

The ability to incite a -20 to -60 to a province

actually scares me

. If my minor faction enemies do that to me, I am screwed.
I used to use dignitaries and destabilizing actions (like burning cultural buildings) in previous campaigns in the past to incite rebellions. Now with the sack action and being big and powerful I can save the money and destabilize them with armies.

[Alwyn]

I would prefer if there was a secession among my enemies. Rebels as you describe them are hostile to everyone and I would have to go over there and make the area either mine or a client state etc.

Yes, if it was possible to encourage part of an enemy nation to secede (and if the secessionist nation might be friendly) that would be more useful than a rebel state (hostile to everyone). Part of me would like to see AI factions having to deal with secessions too (and, as you said, for the player to be able to encourage this). On the other hand, this would make the campaign easier for players, and veteran players tend to say that they want a harder campaign.

Dropping the province stability is not that hard for me, because I have a mod that allows me to sack (loot without occupy) installed. I can go to a province and wreck it and then keep the armies of the enemy away so that the rebels take it over. But if I do that, I won't be able to trade with the rebels etc.

That's true. I've sometimes tried using rebel regions as a buffer between my nation and enemies, when I can't defend all of my borders.

The ability to incite a -20 to -60 to a province

actually scares me. If my minor faction enemies do that to me, I am screwed.

I see what you mean. This hasn't been a significant problem in my campaigns. I guess that AI factions mainly use their spies for other things.

I used to use dignitaries and destabilizing actions (like burning cultural buildings) in previous campaigns in the past to incite rebellions. Now with the sack action and being big and powerful I can save the money and destabilize them with armies.

Yes, the sacking option sounds very effective. I guess the only downside, if you did this for several regions quickly, would be the effect on your public order of the surge in the number of slaves (as shown in this video by Skye).

[The Wandering Storyteller]

All I can say is from 2013 what they promised...and now what they delivered in 2018....big change. Very big changes as to what was a empty feeling of politics.

Glad they actually did it!

[alhoon]

Well, rebels are much more hard-core than I remember. They get their stacks to full within a few turns (much faster than the old game I think) and they even "expand". Whether this is because of the extra unhappiness or because they send out armies I don't know but I suspect it is the former.
Regardless, a rebel stack would go from peanuts to full 30 units (I play with 30 units per stack) within a 4-5 turns and obliterate an enemy. Frankly, when rebels take over center cities I have to either bring two stacks or wait them out in a siege (which is what I do).