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Thread: The House of Noble Discourse

  1. #1
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default The House of Noble Discourse



    Welcome everyone to the House of Noble Discourse! The Curia has voted and ratified the establishment of our humble gathering. To business!

    First of all, I'd like to invite anyone interested to signal their desire to join the House and follow the rules that were suggested. As per the initial proposal, the idea is for us to adhere to a self-policing higher code of conduct when it comes to debate. This may naturally mean keeping our cool in the face of terrible debating but I think doing so will only serve everyone well in the long run.

    The Code
    Respect. Debate in good faith and be respectful to all members. Avoid using language that is deceptive, inflammatory or disruptive. Do not be rude, hostile, or overly sarcastic. Display your wit, but don't be a tit.

    Logic. Argue rationally and as objectively as possible. Avoid using logical fallacies or overly-emotional language.

    Substance. Contribute to the discussion and include worthwhile material to debate.

    Evidence. Support your assertions of truth or fact with evidence. Link your sources - videos and images alone are foolish. Unless accompanied by other sources, refrain from using tabloids, blogs, social media comments and conspiracy-theory sites.
    Once there are enough of us, we can figure out how to improve the general level of debate, as well as to encourage folk to join the House and adhere to the higher standard. Some initial ideas I had include creating signatures for members, 'Katsumoto of the House of Noble Discourse', or with some sort of quote, as well as House rewards for good debating.

    I am also perfectly happy to alter the name of our society/group as well as the code of conduct if there is consensus, I'm not precious about either.

    Otherwise, feel free to use this thread to discuss matters relating to the House, topics of debate or just to shoot the breeze. As I understand it, anyone is also welcome to open a thread in the Symposium just as if it were the D&D if they wish to debate a topic.

    Thanks all!

    Members:

    Seether
    Aexodus
    Sukiyama
    Elfdude
    Alwyn
    Pikestance
    Katsumoto
    Iskar
    Abdülmecid I
    Last edited by Katsumoto; December 20, 2018 at 11:08 AM.
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  2. #2
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Thanks! I like your idea and it's good to see the House of Noble Discourse being established.

    The Code looks like a helpful endorsement of reason, evidence and fairness in debate. Like others, I'd enjoy debates without bad-faith tactics such such as dismissing evidence when it's inconvenient, trying to shift the goal-posts and attacking the opponent instead of their argument.

    My only small reservation is about the complete exclusion of the use of blogs without extra evidence. It's true that anyone can write anything in a blog, regardless of whether it's accurate or a total fabrication. However, suppose we were discussing ancient history - would it be a problem if I linked to one of these ancient history blogs without providing an extra source saying the same thing? As I see it, anyone who doubted the evidence provided by such a blog would be free to question it (for example, by pointing out whether it was written by anyone with expertise in the subject, such as a teacher of ancient history).
    Last edited by Alwyn; December 15, 2018 at 04:04 AM.

  3. #3
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    That's a fair point, yeah. Blogs can be of a higher quality than even some established sites. Unless there are some reasonable objections from others we can remove that requirement. Cheers Alwyn!

    I forgot to mention, the House was obviously proposed and voted on in the Curia as a thing by Citizens, since I do think Citizens should hold themselves to a higher standard. But I think we could allow non-citizens to join as well, since more people debating better is obviously good, but as our base is in the Symposium they wouldn't officially have a say in the way it's run. I figure ideally this could maybe serve as a bit of an incentive for people to become Citizens.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

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    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Thanks! I'll be interested to see the views of others on my question about allowing blogs. Yes, I see how this could be an incentive to join.

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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Thanks! I like your idea and it's good to see the House of Noble Discourse being established.

    The Code looks like a helpful endorsement of reason, evidence and fairness in debate. Like others, I'd enjoy debates without bad-faith tactics such such as dismissing evidence when it's inconvenient, trying to shift the goal-posts and attacking the opponent instead of their argument.

    My only small reservation is about the complete exclusion of the use of blogs without extra evidence. It's true that anyone can write anything in a blog, regardless of whether it's accurate or a total fabrication. However, suppose we were discussing ancient history - would it be a problem if I linked to one of these ancient history blogs without providing an extra source saying the same thing? As I see it, anyone who doubted the evidence provided by such a blog would be free to question it (for example, by pointing out whether it was written by anyone with expertise in the subject, such as a teacher of ancient history).
    There is nothing inherently wrong with using a blog. Like anything else, one must conduct a simple source analysis. In the context of a history, as I tell my students, history is not a truth, but facts and interpretation of facts. ost of what people read is an interpretation of facts. Knowing who they are and their motivation is essential for the basis of any discussion of the value and limitation any source that is used regardless if it is a blog or a publication. Alternatively, a blog generally is not scrutinized by peer review like a publication is.

    I think the name is fine unless you want to remove "discourse" but then you will be removing a descriptive element.
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    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Welcome everyone to the House of Noble Discourse! The Curia has voted and ratified the establishment of our humble gathering. To business!

    First of all, I'd like to invite anyone interested to signal their desire to join the House and follow the rules that were suggested. As per the initial proposal, the idea is for us to adhere to a self-policing higher code of conduct when it comes to debate. This may naturally mean keeping our cool in the face of terrible debating but I think doing so will only serve everyone well in the long run.

    The Code


    Once there are enough of us, we can figure out how to improve the general level of debate, as well as to encourage folk to join the House and adhere to the higher standard. Some initial ideas I had include creating signatures for members, 'Katsumoto of the House of Noble Discourse', or with some sort of quote, as well as House rewards for good debating.

    I am also perfectly happy to alter the name of our society/group as well as the code of conduct if there is consensus, I'm not precious about either.

    Otherwise, feel free to use this thread to discuss matters relating to the House, topics of debate or just to shoot the breeze. As I understand it, anyone is also welcome to open a thread in the Symposium just as if it were the D&D if they wish to debate a topic.

    Thanks all!
    Instead of the signature thing we could all add "HND" behind our nicknames, as is the custom with some knights' orders in the UK (KG, CBE, etc.) So that would be "Iskar HND" for me.
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  7. #7
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    I like that - we're knights-errant on a quest for better debate! Though I know people can be a bit particular about their username (I know I am) - asking them to stick HND on the end might be annoying, but certainly could have it as a voluntary thing.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    In the past, groups as of this would put something in their signature with a link to a thread like this. (e.g. S.I.N.)
    I think having something in the signature that brings any curious seekers to the OP with the codes etc... would be a better way of spreading the word, apart from the higher discourse of course.
    The Art guys can probably make a bar for you.
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  9. #9
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    So, who's in on this? Can we get a rough list of commitments? We can also set up a group for this.
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    I'd limit the membership to only the most elite group first. I can think of a few names who would be a good "Vanguard" for this project, and maybe we could send messages to those people. I think the selection process right now is really important as less qualified members might discredit this project before it gets a good start.

    Just off the very, very top of my head I'd say,

    Abdul, Iskar, epic-fa1l, Prince of Essling, Dante, and Paleo.

    Edit; Conon as well. I'll add more as I think of them.

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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I'd limit the membership to only the most elite group first. I can think of a few names who would be a good "Vanguard" for this project, and maybe we could send messages to those people. I think the selection process right now is really important as less qualified members might discredit this project before it gets a good start.

    Just off the very, very top of my head I'd say,

    Abdul, Iskar, epic-fa1l, Prince of Essling, Dante, and Paleo.

    Edit; Conon as well. I'll add more as I think of them.

    I think I prefer Kat's proposal better

    Fellow Citizens,


    I come before you today with a humble proposal - the establishment of the House of Noble Discourse. It will aim to improve the state of debate within the discussion fora of our site by encouraging more productive and friendly discourse.

    What?
    Essentially, the idea is to establish a voluntary group dedicated to civil and rational debate based on a jointly agreed code of conduct. The idea is to set an example, by following a self-induced higher standard.

    Why?
    To positively foster productive and respectful discussion, without any obligations or restrictions for those who are not interested.

    The Code
    This is by no means final and obviously based off a previous idea (with some added drollery for good measure) - it's meant to serve as a starting point, depending on what others would like to see included:
    Respect. Debate in good faith and be respectful to all members. Avoid using language that is deceptive, inflammatory or disruptive. Do not be rude, hostile, or overly sarcastic. Display your wit, but don't be a tit.Logic. Argue rationally and as objectively as possible. Avoid using logical fallacies or overly-emotional language.
    Substance. Contribute to the discussion and include worthwhile material to debate.
    Evidence. Support your assertions of truth or fact with evidence. Link your sources - videos and images alone are foolish. Unless accompanied by other sources, refrain from using tabloids, blogs, social media comments and conspiracy-theory sites.
    The trouble previously was that this was all based on 'negative enforcement' i.e. at the hands of moderation. The idea here is to do it in a more positive way, by coming together and setting an example.

    How?
    Adherence to all this would be self-policing - I'm not proposing any official regulations. After you agree to join the House, you would naturally be expected to follow the code - once you're in, you're in (you can leave or be removed but just when you thought you were out, we'll pull you back in).


    Technically, I imagine a thread (and/or social group) could be created in the Curia to serve as a hub for the House. Among other things this is where people could challenge the behaviour of the members in regards to their adherence to the code. Members of the House could then vote to kick out those who have failed to follow bushido the code.



    I didn't support this idea so that it can become a clique. People volunteer to be apart of a higher standard would logically follow those higher standards. The group will ensure that a consistent understanding is communicated.
    Last edited by PikeStance; December 16, 2018 at 12:32 AM.
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Yeah I think it would defeat the purpose if it was exclusive somehow, obviously if people don't follow the Code they can be removed.
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    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    So how are we gonna proceed? Send out invitations to those we think might be interested in this and/or post an announcement in the D&D?
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    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Yeah both of those ideas are good. Do you want to write up the announcement? Feel free to suggest names of who to invite as well.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    let me know if you want a front page/forum wide announcement for this (PM me please, I might be missing the replies here, sorry!)

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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Um. Don't ask Flinn if you want a Front Page Announcement. Ask me.

    Do ask Flinn if you want a forum-wide announcement, though - I can't do those.

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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    hey, I need to justify my salary in a way or another!!

    jokes aside, you can ask directly to Hitai for front page/news

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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    jokes aside, you can ask directly to Hitai for front page/news
    Well if you truly can't bear to talk to Cai directly then I can pass the message along I suppose He's a nice bloke though; he doesn't bite or anything, I promise.
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  19. #19
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    A little sig bar if people want to use it, perhaps to link back here:



    I'm happy to provide a smaller/bigger version, customised with names or quotes. Can do something else altogether if you like. Anything to spread the word!
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

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    Default Re: The House of Noble Discourse

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    let me know if you want a front page/forum wide announcement for this (PM me please, I might be missing the replies here, sorry!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Caillagh de Bodemloze View Post
    Um. Don't ask Flinn if you want a Front Page Announcement. Ask me.
    Do ask Flinn if you want a forum-wide announcement, though - I can't do those.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    hey, I need to justify my salary in a way or another!!
    jokes aside, you can ask directly to Hitai for front page/news
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitai de Bodemloze View Post
    Well if you truly can't bear to talk to Cai directly then I can pass the message along I suppose He's a nice bloke though; he doesn't bite or anything, I promise.
    OMG, Stop, my head is spinning!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    A little sig bar if people want to use it, perhaps to link back here:



    I'm happy to provide a smaller/bigger version, customised with names or quotes. Can do something else altogether if you like. Anything to spread the word!
    You might want to go sig bar size for some. I will stick to text because I found a fifth image to be too cluttered.
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