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Thread: Protests in Hungary because of the planned new overtime law

  1. #1
    Marcus_Iunius_Brutus_Caepio's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Protests in Hungary because of the planned new overtime law

    It seems Orban is finally going too far with the planned new overtime law.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Protests in Hungary

    Up to 400 overtime per year?

    Hungary wants to approve up to 400 overtime per year by law. Thousands protested against the plans. Because the opportunity to refuse, most employees do not have, according to unions.

    In the Hungarian capital of Budapest, thousands of people took to the streets against a planned law that significantly increases the number of possible overtime hours per year.

    So far, the limit on overtime allowed in the year is 250. But on Monday, Parliament wants to pass an amendment that gives the employer the right to oblige his employees to work at least 250 overtime hours per year. More hours beyond the normal working hours, up to the 400 limit, must then be discussed with the employee. In Germany, each dependent employee spent an average of 54 overtime hours in 2017 - throughout the year.

    Remuneration can take years

    If the bill is to be approved, overtime hours will no longer have to be compensated by money or days of leave within one year. According to the new directive, the employer could take three years to do so.

    The biggest unions of the year called for the protest in front of the Parliament in Budapest. Laszlo Kordas, chairman of the Hungarian Federation of Trade Unions, said in a speech at the meeting: "In Hungary, we carry the biggest burdens on our backs, in return we get the lowest salary in Europe."

    In Hungary, a statutory minimum wage has been in place since the beginning of 2018: According to the European Job Mobility Portal, this is 138,000 forints per month, the equivalent of around 430 euros. By comparison, in Germany, until the end of the year, a legal minimum wage of 8.84 euros per hour and thus a monthly salary of about 1500 euros with 40 working hours per week applies. In 2019, the claim increases to 9.19 euros per hour.

    Low earnings are like coercion

    The low wage in Hungary is a compulsion for many working people to work overtime and for the employers a lever, the unions emphasize. Thus, the impression given by the bill is wrong, all overtime from the 250 mark would be in consultation and thus voluntarily.

    The German IG Metall solidarized with protesters in Budapest. The alleged readiness of the Hungarians to work more overtime is only an indicator of under-paid wages.

    https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/un...rbeit-101.html


    In short: Hungarian government plans a new overtime law, which give a employer the right to oblige his employees to make at least 250 overtime hours per year, every further overtime hour must then be discussed with his employees till a maximum of 400 overtime hours. The employer should get the right to compensate overtime hours within 3 years instead of one year. The trade unions have organised massive protests against this, as Hungarians already earn only 430 € per month.

    Another articles in english with similar content:

    https://www.dw.com/en/hungarian-workers-protest-slave-law-overtime-rules/a-46649065

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hungary-protest/hungarians-protest-against-slave-law-overtime-rules-idUSKBN1O70FM

    https://apnews.com/a66395a55ea54d29bf5e3afec6b2f51c

    This shows clearly, that Orban doesn't care about the prosperity of his country. He is only interested in enriching his clique of supporting industrial oligarchs by dumping down workers rights. Hungary is far away from european standard, its more like a southamerican banana republic, where workers rights are surpressed for the benefit of a small group of industrialists. Those states are very hampered in their developement because of their missing purchasing power.

    So Orban is damaging Hungary's future developement.
    Last edited by Marcus_Iunius_Brutus_Caepio; December 08, 2018 at 01:15 PM.
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  2. #2
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Protests in Hungary because of the planned new overtime law

    Sad to watch this rather interesting thread being ignored. To be honest, worker rights are an often neglected topic, as it doesn't fit the agenda of the prevalent right-wing political correctness, while mass and social media remain obsessed with juicier stuff, ranging from Hollywood divorces to Facebook gaffes and immigrant mischief. Anyway, in the unfortunate case of Hungary, I particularly enjoy the evident contradiction between the Prime-Minister's fiery and populist rhetoric and his government's actual policy. Corruption, nepotism and censorship aside, his attack on his people's most basic rights is exceptionally remarkable, as it directly involves Hungary's poor masses and not the usual scapegoats, such as "sneaky Bolsheviks, bloodthirsty Muslims and shady magnates of Jewish ancestry". It's always nice to verbally defend your country's racial purity, cultural heritage and the individual safety of your voters, against the terrifying European imperialism, but when the dreaded time of action arrives, absolute silence follows.

    Of course, Victor Orban's hypocrisy is nothing special, but instead simply confirms the rule of far-right activists actually safeguarding the interests of the elite, to the detriment of the lower classes, despite their initial promises and the partial copy-paste of Marxist terminology. From Hitler patiently reassuring the national industry establishment of his benign intentions and his dedication to combat against the worryingly strengthened Communism in Great Depression-stricken Germany of the early '30s to the Golden Dawn fighting for tax-exemption for the absurdly wealthy shipowners, while simultaneously assaulting "provocatively demanding" trade unions, in modern Greece, suffering from a debt crisis, the history of the far-right is marked by brutal violence against the proletariat, of which it claims to be derived. Personally, I don't believe in miraculous interventions from the European saviour. On the contrary, with the help of controversial legislation like this, it is up to the Hungarian people to realize how easily they are manipulated by professional opportunists, while their attention is distracted away from the real issues, by emotional appeals to xenophobia and tribalism. I understand that the lack of any serious alternative (the largest opposition group, Jobbik, is literally composed of Nazis), but the need to appropriately punish the notoriously insincere Fidesz party in the next elections is imperative. Frustratingly, as long as the society keeps on being misled by false dilemmas and chauvinist delusions, the emergence of an organisation more competent and more humane than the Socialist Party and Jobbik is highly unlikely, which is why I am quite skeptical about any optimist scenarios.

  3. #3
    Diocle's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Protests in Hungary because of the planned new overtime law

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Sad to watch this rather interesting thread being ignored. To be honest, worker rights are an often neglected topic, as it doesn't fit the agenda of the prevalent right-wing political correctness, while mass and social media remain obsessed with juicier stuff, ranging from Hollywood divorces to Facebook gaffes and immigrant mischief. Anyway, in the unfortunate case of Hungary, I particularly enjoy the evident contradiction between the Prime-Minister's fiery and populist rhetoric and his government's actual policy. Corruption, nepotism and censorship aside, his attack on his people's most basic rights is exceptionally remarkable, as it directly involves Hungary's poor masses and not the usual scapegoats, such as "sneaky Bolsheviks, bloodthirsty Muslims and shady magnates of Jewish ancestry". It's always nice to verbally defend your country's racial purity, cultural heritage and the individual safety of your voters, against the terrifying European imperialism, but when the dreaded time of action arrives, absolute silence follows.

    Of course, Victor Orban's hypocrisy is nothing special, but instead simply confirms the rule of far-right activists actually safeguarding the interests of the elite, to the detriment of the lower classes, despite their initial promises and the partial copy-paste of Marxist terminology. From Hitler patiently reassuring the national industry establishment of his benign intentions and his dedication to combat against the worryingly strengthened Communism in Great Depression-stricken Germany of the early '30s to the Golden Dawn fighting for tax-exemption for the absurdly wealthy shipowners, while simultaneously assaulting "provocatively demanding" trade unions, in modern Greece, suffering from a debt crisis, the history of the far-right is marked by brutal violence against the proletariat, of which it claims to be derived. Personally, I don't believe in miraculous interventions from the European saviour. On the contrary, with the help of controversial legislation like this, it is up to the Hungarian people to realize how easily they are manipulated by professional opportunists, while their attention is distracted away from the real issues, by emotional appeals to xenophobia and tribalism. I understand that the lack of any serious alternative (the largest opposition group, Jobbik, is literally composed of Nazis), but the need to appropriately punish the notoriously insincere Fidesz party in the next elections is imperative. Frustratingly, as long as the society keeps on being misled by false dilemmas and chauvinist delusions, the emergence of an organisation more competent and more humane than the Socialist Party and Jobbik is highly unlikely, which is why I am quite skeptical about any optimist scenarios.
    OMG Abdul! For a moment (but it was just a moment!) it seemed to me I was reading Правда in the seventies!

    If the new Hungarian Law follows, or doesn't berach the European Directive on Working Time and Part Time Work, this one:

    .
    The EU Directives on working time and part-time workTwo EU Directives are of direct significance to the regulation of overtime - the 1993 Directive (93/104/EC) on certain aspects of the organisation of working time and the 1997 Directive on part-time work(97/81/EC) (EU9706131F)

    The working time Directive provides that the period of weekly working time in Member States must be limited by means of laws, regulations or administrative provisions or by collective agreements or 'agreements between the two sides of industry'. The average working time for each seven-day period, including overtime, must not exceed 48 hours, over a reference period not exceeding four months. Furthermore, all workers are entitled to: a minimum daily rest period of 11 consecutive hours per 24-hour period; in each seven-day period, a minimum uninterrupted rest period of 24 hours plus the 11 hours' daily rest referred to in the previous point, over a reference period not exceeding 14 days (this rest period should in principle include Sunday, but if objective, technical or work organisation conditions so justify, a minimum rest period of 24 hours may be applied); and where the working day is longer than six hours, a rest break. The normal hours of work for night workers must not exceed an average of eight hours in any 24-hour period.
    The part-time work Directive defines a 'part-time worker' as an employee whose normal hours of work, calculated on a weekly basis or on average over a period of employment of up to one year, are less than the normal hours of work of a comparable full-time worker. In respect of employment conditions, part-time workers must not be treated in a less favourable manner than comparable full-time workers solely because they work part time unless different treatment is justified on objective grounds. Where appropriate, the principle of 'pro rata temporis' shall apply

    .
    I don't see on which basis you EU-supporters are complaining ..

  4. #4

    Default Re: Protests in Hungary because of the planned new overtime law

    So... were there any protests? Sounds like Diocle's post debunked the OP.

  5. #5
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Protests in Hungary because of the planned new overtime law

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    If the new Hungarian Law follows, or doesn't berach the European Directive on Working Time and Part Time Work, this one:
    I don't see on which basis you EU-supporters are complaining ..
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    So... were there any protests? Sounds like Diocle's post debunked the OP.
    I suppose neither of you read the linked articles, because the absurdity of the tu quoque fallacy is clear and doubtless. Firstly, as I made clear in my Pravda comment, I'm not a blind supporter of the European Union, so deflection is not going to work here. Summarily put, even if the European Union legalized slavery, that would not excuse the Hungarian government eagerly curtailing worker rights. Secondly, EU directives are not binding, but they usually set a specific goal, allowing each country to gradually achieve it in a unique way. In the case of the "overtime directive", the European Union simply establishes the limits of worker exploitation (which, by the way, I personally consider as unacceptably high). Therefore, poor little Orban is definitely not legally obliged to undermine the worker rights of his beloved Magyar people, so not only his behaviour is not inexcusable, but also the overused bogeyman of the European/Soviet Union is irrelevant. After all, I naively believed that we all praised Hungary for having the courage to resist against the orders of the European Commissars. Thirdly and quite ironically, his proposed amendments actually violate the European Directive, as they are significantly harsher against the unprotected Hungarian workers. For example, the reference period is increased from the previous maximum of 1 year to... 3, giving the opportunity to mainly multinational companies (so much for Victor Orban, the sworn enemy of cosmopolitanism) to severely abuse the overtime regulations. In a rather interesting note, Fidesz is promoting this legislation through a parliament committee, thus taking advantage of a constitutional loophole and succeeding in avoiding any public discourse with the trade unions and the opposition parties.

    Consequently, now that the most basic facts have been explained and Victor Orban's merciless attack against the Hungarian society's quality of life and most principal rights is undeniably confirmed, let me repeat the inconvenient question: Why do you so adamantly refuse to criticize the corruption, authoritarianism and anti-grass roots policy of Victor Orban. I thought that Orban's international defenders appreciated his alleged brave stance against the decadent elites of the West and in favour of the threatened commoners. Unfortunately, as common sense and reality indicate, his claims are purely hypocritical. In practice, the Prime-Minister doesn't hesitate to undermine the most essential interests of the Hungarians, so I am really troubled at the continuous support he receives, despite blatantly and remorselessly lying to his domestic followers. To be frank, this self-destructive partisanship is why I am totally incapable of taking far-right activism seriously, even when liberal newspapers had panicked at the prospect of Donald or Le Pen grabbing the presidency. The far-right is so desperate to upset its imaginary adversaries, that it will gladly encourage the first available charlatan to manipulate it, although the Messiah of xenophobia, orange, Magyar or bald, has absolutely no intention of fulfilling his promises.
    To sum up, Victor Orban happily demolishes the worker rights, in direct contradiction with his propaganda image of the popular Saint George impaling the serpentine monster of multicultural bankers and their Communist sponsors. Considering that he's now proudly harming the interests of his people, it is the moral duty of anyone prioritizing the well-being of the lower classes, regardless of his political affiliation, to reprimand him and his government. Am I wrong?

  6. #6
    Marcus_Iunius_Brutus_Caepio's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Protests in Hungary because of the planned new overtime law

    I'm criticizing Orban for obliging employees to work 250 overtime hours per year for their employer, nearly for free, as the employer has time to compensate it within full three years...

    Its nothing else than forced labor.

    And it will decrease Hungary's productivity further, which is already lower than Westeurope.

    See the table at the end of this article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...-working-hours

    Hungary will stagnate in its status as low-wage-country.
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