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Thread: Public order is making me really mad

  1. #1

    Default Public order is making me really mad

    So I've been enjoying my KH campaign so far, with lots of drama and great conquests. However, since a few turns from now, the game is almost unplayable because of the public order. I'm on H/H and never had a problem with this, but now suddenly a lot of cities rebel spontaneously (they're yellow or blue and in the turn end a revolt starts).

    Also, a very weird thing happens. All my cities have better public order if there's no governor in them. I check out every trait and ancillary and even if they're all positive, when I put the governor in tje city, the public order decreases like a 30%. So right now I leave all the generals out of the cities and they sometimes rebel... But it's better than having them inside and making the whole city rebel. I filled all my cities with spies but nothing is changing.

    For example, I have a governor in a city and shows me red public order. I take him out and the public order becomes yellow. The next turn I bring him in again and the city is still in yellow even with him inside. Then after a turn or two again it's red and I hace to repeat. I don't find any logic in this...

    Could this be a bug or something? I think maybe it has to do with the hellenic reforms... But I don't know, I remember to have completed them. Please help!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    How many turns are you at?
    Are the rebellious cities Huge cities or even the small cities are rebellious as well?
    Also which cities in particular by the way?
    Do your governors have high influence?
    How does your Faction Leader fare as governor?
    Does he improve unrest or make them more rebellious?

  3. #3
    Frtigern's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    May have to do with govt type. Greek city states and Hellenic western Greek ones that arent KH have public order hits, forgot the name of it. Theres two kinds, but you can see them in the buildings, which I suspect is the way they stimulated the historical unrest at the time. One has a wall it looks like on top of a column building and the other has a spear on it (public strife?). Basically, build an allied govt so as not to incur negative public order penalties.

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
    Swords don't kill people, people with swords kill people.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    The general Hellenistic reforms have nothing whatsoever to do with order, they're just flags for the change of military practises.

    KH's own reforms do have revolt-linked mechanics involved with them. Have you reached the post-Sympoliteia stage of the reforms? There are 16 turns of unrest before that happens.

    There's also the Stasis and Autonomia features, if you choose non-Allied governments for Greece as a Greek faction, you get order penalties. Those don't disappear for KH until the end of their faction's reform.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  5. #5

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertykov View Post
    How many turns are you at?
    Are the rebellious cities Huge cities or even the small cities are rebellious as well?
    Also which cities in particular by the way?
    Do your governors have high influence?
    How does your Faction Leader fare as governor?
    Does he improve unrest or make them more rebellious?
    Hi, I hope this clarify things, I took some pictures of the current state of my campaign. As you see, in Petra I have a very good general but the city seems better governed without him. In Singidunon, the city is blue with the general but after the turn it becomes red (this happens to 4 or 5 cities). Also I added a picture of Athens and the level it has (I remember seeing something about the Sympoliteia being complete, and that revolts were over).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1.jpg   2.jpg   3.jpg   4.jpg   5.jpg  

    6.jpg   7.jpg   8.jpg  

  6. #6

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by Frtigern View Post
    May have to do with govt type. Greek city states and Hellenic western Greek ones that arent KH have public order hits, forgot the name of it. Theres two kinds, but you can see them in the buildings, which I suspect is the way they stimulated the historical unrest at the time. One has a wall it looks like on top of a column building and the other has a spear on it (public strife?). Basically, build an allied govt so as not to incur negative public order penalties.

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
    I don't know... this happens to me with different types of government (Democracy, Oligarchy, Tributary state...

  7. #7

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    The general Hellenistic reforms have nothing whatsoever to do with order, they're just flags for the change of military practises.

    KH's own reforms do have revolt-linked mechanics involved with them. Have you reached the post-Sympoliteia stage of the reforms? There are 16 turns of unrest before that happens.

    There's also the Stasis and Autonomia features, if you choose non-Allied governments for Greece as a Greek faction, you get order penalties. Those don't disappear for KH until the end of their faction's reform.
    I have completed all the KH reforms (I remember seeing something about the Sympoliteia being complete, and that revolts were over). I haven't seen anything about Hellenistic reforms, though. In the pictures I uploaded you can see the kinds of government and what do I have in Athens

  8. #8

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Both the cities shown in the screenshot are on the fringes of your empire in non-greek areas. It would be more helpful to post the offending governor's character sheets to see if there are any nasty traits causing public order maluses IMO.

    FTR in the past the team has noticed a mysterious public order drop that can come from a governor entering a previously ungoverned city(provided he does not have a host of order increasing traits for eg.), but it wasn't anything game breaking for the most part.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Both the cities shown in the screenshot are on the fringes of your empire in non-greek areas. It would be more helpful to post the offending governor's character sheets to see if there are any nasty traits causing public order maluses IMO.

    FTR in the past the team has noticed a mysterious public order drop that can come from a governor entering a previously ungoverned city(provided he does not have a host of order increasing traits for eg.), but it wasn't anything game breaking for the most part.
    It happens also in some central regions, but not so much. Also I realized in Petra they give a 25 garrison bonus for public order, even almost is full stack. Is that normal? Also they are in red for lots of turns and don't revolt, but in some cities after a turn in red they revolt... i'm missing a lot of things about the gameplay mechanics (I read the player guide pdf but doesn't say anything about this...). Where can I find a complete guide about the mod?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by gangster19 View Post
    It happens also in some central regions, but not so much. Also I realized in Petra they give a 25 garrison bonus for public order, even almost is full stack. Is that normal? Also they are in red for lots of turns and don't revolt, but in some cities after a turn in red they revolt... i'm missing a lot of things about the gameplay mechanics (I read the player guide pdf but doesn't say anything about this...). Where can I find a complete guide about the mod?
    It's a camp; order bonuses for garrisons are halved, just as order penalties for distance are also halved.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  11. #11

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Ok people, I actually realized what is going on after reading all your answers. I conquered, made an client state and didn't actually recruit the client ruler. So I put a family member to rule and it gave the interloper negative trait. When I took him out after a turn it went out, I put it again in the city and again the negative trait appeared. I'm gonna rebuild every client state and recruit the rulers properly. By the way, if the ruler dies, what do I have to do? Destroy the client state and re build it again? Thank you so much for the ideas!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by gangster19 View Post
    Ok people, I actually realized what is going on after reading all your answers. I conquered, made an client state and didn't actually recruit the client ruler. So I put a family member to rule and it gave the interloper negative trait. When I took him out after a turn it went out, I put it again in the city and again the negative trait appeared. I'm gonna rebuild every client state and recruit the rulers properly. By the way, if the ruler dies, what do I have to do? Destroy the client state and re build it again? Thank you so much for the ideas!
    Yes, you have to destroy the building and rebuild again. It represents the change in government and the problems that arise from it

  13. #13
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    A lot of things affect this, but the major ones are placing governors in cities where you've already built an allied democracy or oligarchy government. You need a core factional government if you want to place a governor there instead of recruiting a local governor/general and client ruler bodyguard unit from an allied vassal government building. This allows your settlement time to convert to your Hellenistic culture. Also, you should focus on building infrastructure that improves public order right away and build stuff that improves finances and population growth later on. As others have alluded here, there are also problems with certain cities in the Hellenistic Greek sphere, especially in mainland Greece, where certain cities have very poor public order if you do not construct an allied democracy or oligarchy.

    If it really drives you nuts and you feel helpless about it, you can always reconquer those cities and enslave/exterminate the populace. If you're really desperate, you can also cheat! You can decrease the population of any city this way, which usually undercuts unrest. Use this is a last resort, though, especially since recruiting a local client ruler usually solves the public order problem for a few decades, bringing stability and ensuring your culture spreads.

    For the cheat, open up the console with the "~" button on your keyboard while staring at the campaign map. Type in the following, with the city of "Sparte" as an example, but any city, town, or nomadic camp can work with this cheat:

    Code:
    add_population "Sparte" -4000
    Notice how there is a minus symbol "-" before the number 4000. You need that, otherwise you'll be adding people to your settlement. LOL. If the city has such a huge population that lowering taxes after that still doesn't help, just continue the cheat above, using the enter key in the console, until the settlement decides to be a good girl and behaves itself. Like everything in life, the game just needs a good spanking when it decides to throw a temper tantrum and defy you, its master, in your quest for fun and diversion.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Both the cities shown in the screenshot are on the fringes of your empire in non-greek areas. It would be more helpful to post the offending governor's character sheets to see if there are any nasty traits causing public order maluses IMO.
    Interesting!

    The "governor" you have placed in Singidunon is 18 years old with a +1 influence. Doesn't seem right to me... Maybe the city is rejecting your underqualified governor lol..

    But personally, I wouldn't let a super junior FM with weak stats and experience lead an army to take a city or govern one.. (for obvious reasons)

    *Also could we see Niarchos Rhodios list of traits? Perhaps he is not of local ethnicity with could affect his influence and effectiveness outside of his homeland/comfort zone?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    If it really drives you nuts and you feel helpless about it, you can always reconquer those cities and enslave/exterminate the populace. You can decrease the population of any city this way, which usually undercuts unrest.
    I have done that before as a last resort and it works. For historically rebellious cities eg Syracuse, it is a brutal but effective method to show them who is boss. Hehe

  16. #16

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    It's a camp; order bonuses for garrisons are halved, just as order penalties for distance are also halved.
    Why is Petra a camp and not a city?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    A lot of things affect this, but the major ones are placing governors in cities where you've already built an allied democracy or oligarchy government. You need a core factional government if you want to place a governor there instead of recruiting a local governor/general and client ruler bodyguard unit from an allied vassal government building. This allows your settlement time to convert to your Hellenistic culture. Also, you should focus on building infrastructure that improves public order right away and build stuff that improves finances and population growth later on. As others have alluded here, there are also problems with certain cities in the Hellenistic Greek sphere, especially in mainland Greece, where certain cities have very poor public order if you do not construct an allied democracy or oligarchy.

    If it really drives you nuts and you feel helpless about it, you can always reconquer those cities and enslave/exterminate the populace. If you're really desperate, you can also cheat! You can decrease the population of any city this way, which usually undercuts unrest. Use this is a last resort, though, especially since recruiting a local client ruler usually solves the public order problem for a few decades, bringing stability and ensuring your culture spreads.

    For the cheat, open up the console with the "~" button on your keyboard while staring at the campaign map. Type in the following, with the city of "Sparte" as an example, but any city, town, or nomadic camp can work with this cheat:

    Code:
    add_population "Sparte" -4000
    Notice how there is a minus symbol "-" before the number 4000. You need that, otherwise you'll be adding people to your settlement. LOL. If the city has such a huge population that lowering taxes after that still doesn't help, just continue the cheat above, using the enter key in the console, until the settlement decides to be a good girl and behaves itself. Like everything in life, the game just needs a good spanking when it decides to throw a temper tantrum and defy you, its master, in your quest for fun and diversion.
    Thank you for the answer! Actually, with the reforms I'm doing in my empire I'm doing fine, also I hate cheating . One thing I don't understand is when I can build only client states or actually a factional government... These things aren't explained anywhere right?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertykov View Post
    Interesting!

    The "governor" you have placed in Singidunon is 18 years old with a +1 influence. Doesn't seem right to me... Maybe the city is rejecting your underqualified governor lol..

    But personally, I wouldn't let a super junior FM with weak stats and experience lead an army to take a city or govern one.. (for obvious reasons)

    *Also could we see Niarchos Rhodios list of traits? Perhaps he is not of local ethnicity with could affect his influence and effectiveness outside of his homeland/comfort zone?
    I didn't realize there was actually a bad trait for my governors in the client cities, as I said before. It gave them the interloper trait, that decreases public order and that was the main problem. Now that I actually recruit correctly the rulers, it's fine!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    Well then, that solves that. The Interloper trait is more than enough to explain such order maluses IMO. Case closed.

    Why is Petra a camp and not a city?
    Because in the early period for the Nabateans, to my understanding, it was not as important as an urban centre as it would later become. At the game start, most of the Nabatu are still living nomadic lifestyles. As time progressed, the Nabateans became more and more settled/urbanized(switching to agriculture, building famous aqueducts etc.), but it really just doesn't make sense for Rekem to start out either as a full urban province or a pastoral settlement just yet IMO.
    Last edited by Genghis Skahn; November 29, 2018 at 07:08 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Public order is making me really mad

    A side question, is there any way to actually know if I've completed the KH reforms? I kinda remember it... But I'm not sure

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