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Thread: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

  1. #21
    Aexodus's Avatar stahp
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    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    I have no idea why you’re covering for China with whataboutism, but the no fly list as well as other knee-jerk legislation installed by Bush after 9/11 are utterly wrong and an example of how governments abuse terrorism to gain power. The no fly list is of a different nature to social credit however, being security related.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback.

  2. #22

    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    I have no idea why you’re covering for China with whataboutism, but the no fly list as well as other knee-jerk legislation installed by Bush after 9/11 are utterly wrong and an example of how governments abuse terrorism to gain power. The no fly list is of a different nature to social credit however, being security related.
    I'm not really covering for China in any shape or form. That's merely a baseless claim. What I'm doing is testing biased arguments. It's really fun!
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  3. #23

    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    This is fairly old news tbh. I've heard about this a couple years ago. While horrifying to libertarians, fact of the matter is, all countries employ a "social credit" system to a point. Obviously China is taking it too far and using it as a tool to control its population and identify "enemies of the state", but it's not an inherently broken idea. For one thing, there really are enemies of the state that every country needs to find a way to deal with. Two, certain offenses, crimes, and behaviors, should preclude you from certain privileges and expose you to extra scrutiny. At it's most basic level, a repeat violent criminal should not have access to guns. Storing and accessing such a system on a federal level is akin to social credit, though obviously on a very different scale. I'm on board with criticizing China for how far it's taken this and to what ends it seeks to use the information it gathers, but I am not inherently oppose to collecting citizen information to enact policy against segments of populations. A perpetual social security fraud individual should be scrutinized and his allowance controlled if he is to gain access to welfare, individuals with an awful driving history should be put under extra scrutiny to operate a motor vehicle or perhaps precluded altogether. Etc, etc.

  4. #24
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    I have no idea why you’re covering for China with whataboutism
    Some one must speak for the jack booted thugs. I might even do it for the lols if there weren't already those willing to justify any oppression.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; November 27, 2018 at 04:17 PM.
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  5. #25
    Aexodus's Avatar stahp
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    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    This is fairly old news tbh. I've heard about this a couple years ago.
    True, but it’s the trials that have just started. https://www.wibc.com/blogs/tony-katz...-credit-system

    While horrifying to libertarians, fact of the matter is, all countries employ a "social credit" system to a point. Obviously China is taking it too far and using it as a tool to control its population and identify "enemies of the state", but it's not an inherently broken idea. For one thing, there really are enemies of the state that every country needs to find a way to deal with. Two, certain offenses, crimes, and behaviors, should preclude you from certain privileges and expose you to extra scrutiny. At it's most basic level, a repeat violent criminal should not have access to guns. Storing and accessing such a system on a federal level is akin to social credit, though obviously on a very different scale. I'm on board with criticizing China for how far it's taken this and to what ends it seeks to use the information it gathers, but I am not inherently oppose to collecting citizen information to enact policy against segments of populations. A perpetual social security fraud individual should be scrutinized and his allowance controlled if he is to gain access to welfare, individuals with an awful driving history should be put under extra scrutiny to operate a motor vehicle or perhaps precluded altogether. Etc, etc.
    But should a state have the power to use mass surveillance with facial recognition, and should such lists not be used at the most basic functions, such as banning weapons for repeat violent offenders, but the actual ranking and with points is a no-go no matter how its used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback.

  6. #26

    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    True, but it’s the trials that have just started. https://www.wibc.com/blogs/tony-katz...-credit-system



    But should a state have the power to use mass surveillance with facial recognition, and should such lists not be used at the most basic functions, such as banning weapons for repeat violent offenders, but the actual ranking and with points is a no-go no matter how its used.
    I agree China has taken it too far, but at the same time, I'm cautious of dismissing the entire concept because I know just how trigger-happy people are with their Orwell whistles. I don't have issues with people doing whatever they want in general. I'm a pretty big believer in freedom, like, the sex offender laws in USA are honestly ridiculous. Just let teenagers if they want to. Same with a lot of gun control laws. However, I'm also wary of abuse by individuals and the need to hold them accountable. If someone repeatedly acts like a very unpleasant person by smoking in non-smoke zones, speeding in school zone areas, littering, or other similar nonsense. Yeah, I'd love to see that guy punished, face increased taxes, or other similar penalties. Who wouldn't? Of course we all know who wouldn't, people who constantly whine about big government. Yeah, well, China takes it too far, other countries don't go far enough. God forbid we have national firearm registries or a tightly controlled process for selling firearms and firearm related purchases. The world will implode, the responses in this thread are just indicative of how, if China does something awful, we can't possibly entertain a similar idea because we don't want to be commies.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Yeah, well, China takes it too far, other countries don't go far enough.
    Is it not better to not go far enough, than to go too far?
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback.

  8. #28

    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Is it not better to not go far enough, than to go too far?
    It depends on the issue. I think, if we are at a point where we discuss things case-by-case, then by and large, we are at an acceptable level of "social credit" system that's neither too authoritarian nor too libertarian.

  9. #29

    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    For those constantly complaining about American "imperialism" and cheering American weakness and isolationism: without America, it would be countries like China exporting their political system and culture to your country. Careful what you wish for, lads.

    At the big annual gathering of Chinese lawmakers and political advisors that kicked off March 3, Xi said that China is offering a “new type of political party system”—a Chinese solution that contributes to the development of political parties around the world, according to state media.

    The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has always said the country will never copy the political systems of other countries, in particular the Western notion of democracy. But under Xi—the most powerful Chinese leader in four decades—China’s own one-party system is one that is ready to be exported to regimes everywhere.
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  10. #30

    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
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    the ridiculous porn pass .
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Do they offer a way to buy social credit points?

  12. #32

    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    Fully expect the EU to follow suit with this soon.
    Indeed, reading about this seems like an average leftist's pipe-dream of ostracizing everyone who disagrees with their self-contradicting neoliberal nonsense.

  13. #33
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Indeed, reading about this seems like an average leftist's pipe-dream of ostracizing everyone who disagrees with their self-contradicting neoliberal nonsense.
    In you fervor dream HH would you care to define leftist or neoliberal?
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  14. #34

    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    In you fervor dream HH would you care to define leftist or neoliberal?
    I prefer to use terms for their conventional meaning, which is easily accessible on the Internet.

  15. #35
    Diocle's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    In you fervor dream HH would you care to define leftist or neoliberal?
    Since it seems to me you spend your time on TWC repeating this same question again and again, just to help you and just to make your life easier, here the definitions I found on Free Dictionary (I use it extensively being English not my language, thank God) I hope this will offer you a DEFINITIVE answer, once for all to the issue which seems afflicting you:

    Leftist:

    1. a member of the political Left; liberal or radical. - Or: a person who supports or belongs to the political left

    2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or advocated by the political Left. - Or: of, tending towards, or relating to the political left or its principles

    Neoliberal:

    Noun 1. neoliberal - a liberal who subscribes to neoliberalism. - Or : a liberal, liberalist, progressive - a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

    Adj. 1. neoliberal - having or showing belief in the need for economic growth in addition to traditional liberalistic values, liberal - Or: tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition

    Do you need more? Is that okay with you? I ask because I've the secret dream (I don't dare to write: HOPE) of not having to read anymore those questions repeated infinite times like a mantra with no meaning at all (because anyone living on this planet knows, or should know the actual meaning of "Leftist" and "Neoliberal", just to say you don't need a degree in Political Science to get it.). Anyway if you want or need it I can post even the definitions by Oxford Dictionary.

  16. #36
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: China decides to become the people’s moral authority, and abolish private life - social credit system

    @Diocle and HH. I am aware of the definitions the problem I can particularly associate either of them with HH's statement in #32. I was wondering if had special one(s). Lots of People all across the political spectrum like to ostrize or people they don't like. I fail to see that a self described Neo-libral is any more likely and a conservative evangelical christian to potentially to have or not have such a view.

    Since it seems to me you spend your time on TWC repeating this same question again and again
    Which question. Just being annoyed at HH rants or snarky comments that generally lack any basis in source or evidence and add nothing useful to the topic?
    Last edited by conon394; December 04, 2018 at 10:08 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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