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Thread: Russian-Ukrainian naval incident

  1. #161

    Default Re: Russian-Ukrainian naval incident

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Russia supplies mostly older, T-62 and T-64s, to Eastern Ukrainian rebels. Russia still has hundreds in their inventory. Plus, modernizing all of these tanks isn't actually that hard. Russia already has a lot of diesel engines that they themselves manufacture, and the T-64 isn't exactly a heavy tank. Plus, there's hundreds if not thousands of T-64s and T-62s in their inventory, Russia probably doesn't even know how many exactly they have. To demonstrate the issue, one of Russia's newer tank modernizations that are due to enter service in 2019-2020, is the T-80BVM. Now the T-80 uses Gas Turbine engines which were produced by Ukraine. What happened was, someone in Russia found a storage unit with a thousand of these spare engines, and that's why Russia decided to modernize the T-80. So... yeah, there's a ton of excess inventory that Russia can use. Especially in a limited conflict like Ukraine.

    More than that, despite the fact that the upgraded T-72 variants will be the primary Russian tank for the next decade or so... the demand for T-72s and their upgraded variants is actually really high. Russia sold a lot of these tanks. I'm actually very sure that they don't have enough production capacity to rearm all of their divisions fast, which means they might have to send older tanks to their units for training. Russia's arms industry is improving every year, they are quickly retooling all of their factories, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more transitions towards more advanced equipment. Recently the air-defense component for Gorshkov frigates was finished, in another 5 years a turbine will be designed for them as well. I think Adar was pretty spot-on with his analysis a couple years ago when he predicted that Russia is quickly rearming and becoming a very dangerous force.
    Russia has produced over 25,000 T72's, around 5000 T80s and 3000 T90's. Russia could equip all of their Catergory A and B divisions with T72's as far back as 1990, these days even the lowest level catergory C units have T72's while the A and B units get the T80's and T90's.

    Why the hell would they need to use obsolete T62's and t64's? When they have already been caught sending T72's to the rebels anyway? Russia could even afford to spare T80's for the bloody Syrians.

    Modernising antiques like the T62 and T64 is more trouble than it's worth. It;d be like the British or Israelis going back to Centrions.

  2. #162
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russian-Ukrainian naval incident

    The Ukranians made a great modernized version of the T-64, the T-64BM Bulat. Also have their own upgraded T-80UD, the T-84
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  3. #163

    Default Re: Russian-Ukrainian naval incident

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    The Ukranians made a great modernized version of the T-64, the T-64BM Bulat. Also have their own upgraded T-80UD, the T-84
    The South Africans made a great modernised version of the Centurion, the Oliphant. Doesn't mean the Russians would bother when they have so much, better, kit to use and send to the rebels.

  4. #164

    Default Re: Russian-Ukrainian naval incident

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    Russia has produced over 25,000 T72's, around 5000 T80s and 3000 T90's. Russia could equip all of their Catergory A and B divisions with T72's as far back as 1990, these days even the lowest level catergory C units have T72's while the A and B units get the T80's and T90's.

    Why the hell would they need to use obsolete T62's and t64's? When they have already been caught sending T72's to the rebels anyway? Russia could even afford to spare T80's for the bloody Syrians.
    Depends on their condition. You'd be surprised but depending on what version of T-64 you are using, they'll be superior to T-72s. In fact, one of the limiting factors of "modernization" when it comes to T-72, is that only T-72B models, which were produced from 1980ish till the collapse of the Soviet Union, are capable of being upgraded to the latest variant T-72B3M. Plus, if they are actually planning to send tanks to Eastern Ukrainian rebels, sending them T-72s seems like a waste, especially if they're modernized versions. No, I think Russia is simply planning to send rebels the most modern equipment that they can afford to lose.

    Modernising antiques like the T62 and T64 is more trouble than it's worth. It;d be like the British or Israelis going back to Centrions.
    Depends on who you're fighting and your budget. For example, if all you're doing is upgrading ERA on your old tanks, you're not really losing anything since that same ERA can go on newer tanks as well. For Russia and Ukraine, it's good for them to go with a cheaper route of upgrading older tanks. Neither really has the money, especially Ukraine, to produce large quantities of new tanks. Developing new technology and putting it into the old tank is a cost-effective way of pushing forward R&D and building up production capacity. Production is particularly important. While we often criticize American military-industrial complex, it's one of the reasons why we can continually produce very high-quality military products. Right now, Russia and Ukraine are suffering from more than two decades of low-rate production. It's likely, that Ukraine couldn't build more T-80 Oplots even if they had all the money in the world. They simply don't have the human capital or even the production capacity for such a task.

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