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Thread: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

  1. #41

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    You're not. You're picking on the lowest common denominator and attack a strawman.
    No, I'm just pointing out that your argument isn't based on a fact.
    Not really, but there are real racists out there who patrol our borders with guns, and they don't work for the government.
    How are they racist? For preventing illegal aliens from entering their country?
    Show me where I said policies first.
    So where is that "racism"?

  2. #42

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    No, I'm just pointing out that your argument isn't based on a fact.
    My argument was based on both data and videos to give examples of racists. You didn't address the data, all you said, "These guys are LARPers and not a real force". Except for the fact there are over 500 similar groups. Right-wing militias who share similar ideologies and arm themselves to the teeth.

    How are they racist? For preventing illegal aliens from entering their country?
    They do no have the authority to do that. Yes it is racist to go to the Mexican border for the sake of preventing illegals from entering the country. What is the justification for doing so?

    So where is that "racism"?
    Pretty obvious, major disparities in targeting minorities and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Voter ID has pretty racist outcomes as well.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Sukiyama now redefines racism as anything he doesn't like, according to the post-modernist playbook.

    Of course protecting your borders is now racism, because white people do it, and we know what liberals want to do with white people. Otherwise, every society in history protected its borders and that was fine so long that they aren't white, according to liberals.

  4. #44
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Of course protecting your borders is now racism, because white people do it, and we know what liberals want to do with white people. Otherwise, every society in history protected its borders and that was fine so long that they aren't white, according to liberals.
    When I see armed yahoos roaming around Boston looking for Illegal Irish I might bite on ideal there is no racism involved.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  5. #45
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    When I see armed yahoos roaming around Boston looking for Illegal Irish I might bite on ideal there is no racism involved.
    It looks like that's happening already, the increase in arrested Irish is rather shocking. I didn't even think there were so many (non-plastic) Irish in America.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...ston-1.3322514

    But I don't see the problem. If they're criminals, they're criminals: it doesn't matter if they're white, Irish or brown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    They do no have the authority to do that. Yes it is racist to go to the Mexican border for the sake of preventing illegals from entering the country. What is the justification for doing so?
    How is it racist? It is stopping criminals in the area where the crime is most commonly committed. Surely it is more racist to suppose that certain groups should be exempt from the law because of their race?
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  6. #46

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    My argument was based on both data and videos to give examples of racists. You didn't address the data, all you said, "These guys are LARPers and not a real force". Except for the fact there are over 500 similar groups. Right-wing militias who share similar ideologies and arm themselves to the teeth.
    So? They exercise their constitutional rights, same rights as minorities have.
    They do no have the authority to do that. Yes it is racist to go to the Mexican border for the sake of preventing illegals from entering the country. What is the justification for doing so?
    It is legal for them to do so, and there is nothing racist about preventing illegal aliens from entering your country.
    Pretty obvious, major disparities in targeting minorities and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Voter ID has pretty racist outcomes as well.
    Not really. People chose to neglect such things, can't really blame racism for that.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Sukiyama now redefines racism as anything he doesn't like, according to the post-modernist playbook.
    You're a walking pot of irony. You don't like what I said, so you're just projecting your ideas on to me.

    Of course protecting your borders is now racism, because white people do it, and we know what liberals want to do with white people. Otherwise, every society in history protected its borders and that was fine so long that they aren't white, according to liberals.
    Heavily armed hooligans with zero legal authority aren't protecting borders. They are scaring locals and immigrants, and our law-enforcement. They're not protecting any borders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    It looks like that's happening already, the increase in arrested Irish is rather shocking. I didn't even think there were so many (non-plastic) Irish in America.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...ston-1.3322514

    But I don't see the problem. If they're criminals, they're criminals: it doesn't matter if they're white, Irish or brown.
    These are not militias. The arrests are made by the authorities, as they should. Strangely enough, I don't see any right-wing militias patrolling Boston.
    How is it racist? It is stopping criminals in the area where the crime is most commonly committed.
    They have no legal authority to stop any crime except where their own safety might be in danger. It is racist, because their racism is well-documented, in fact, even the FBI monitors their activity due to the inherent danger such volatile groups present to the general public. It's quite clear what the of these militias are.

    Surely it is more racist to suppose that certain groups should be exempt from the law because of their race?
    Except these groups are targeted far more by law enforcement than any other racial group. They're not exempt from the law, in fact, they are disproportionately targeted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    So? They exercise their constitutional rights, same rights as minorities have.
    Harassing and planning extremist actions isn't a constitutional right.

    It is legal for them to do so, and there is nothing racist about preventing illegal aliens from entering your country.
    They do no have any legal authority to arrest anyone or to "prevent illegal aliens" from doing anything. They're not police.

    Not really. People chose to neglect such things, can't really blame racism for that.
    Not really. They continue to enforce laws to deliberately target minorities. I certainly can and will blame racism for that.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Harassing and planning extremist actions isn't a constitutional right.
    Except that's not what they do, at least based on the video you posted. Its called freedom of speech. They have a right to say what they say.
    They do no have any legal authority to arrest anyone or to "prevent illegal aliens" from doing anything. They're not police.
    So? They are a militia. Perfectly constitutional.
    Not really. They continue to enforce laws to deliberately target minorities. I certainly can and will blame racism for that.
    But they don't target minorities. Its individual responsibility to get your own ID. I'm surprised I even have to explain this.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Except that's not what they do, at least based on the video you posted. Its called freedom of speech. They have a right to say what they say.
    Freedom of speech doesn't allow you to harass others. This is why you can't stand outside someone's driveway shouting about how their evil leftist ways are destroying the country while being heavily armed.

    So? They are a militia. Perfectly constitutional.
    Unregulated militias are not allowed by the constitution.

    But they don't target minorities. Its individual responsibility to get your own ID. I'm surprised I even have to explain this.
    Neither were poll taxes. I'm not surprised you'd ignore obvious facts and data. It's your modus operandi.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Freedom of speech doesn't allow you to harass others. This is why you can't stand outside someone's driveway shouting about how their evil leftist ways are destroying the country while being heavily armed.
    Not really. Plenty of states have open-carry laws.
    Unregulated militias are not allowed by the constitution.
    Do you know what "regulated" means "well-supplied and trained" within the context of US Constitution, right?
    Neither were poll taxes. I'm not surprised you'd ignore obvious facts and data. It's your modus operandi.
    One's responsibility to have ID is a fact. Its not that hard to have one. "Racist outcomes" in general is a terrible argument, I'm surprised I even have to explain that.

  11. #51
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    These are not militias. The arrests are made by the authorities, as they should. Strangely enough, I don't see any right-wing militias patrolling Boston.
    Well there are IRA agents frequenting Boston seeking funding for upcoming events. But I see your point.

    They have no legal authority to stop any crime except where their own safety might be in danger. It is racist, because their racism is well-documented, in fact, even the FBI monitors their activity due to the inherent danger such volatile groups present to the general public. It's quite clear what the of these militias are.
    Okay, yes, I'll concede that point. That does seem racist.

    Except these groups are targeted far more by law enforcement than any other racial group. They're not exempt from the law, in fact, they are disproportionately targeted.
    Here I disagree.
    I question your cause and effect schema here. If they break the law disproportionately it can't be said that they're disproportionately targeted. And I think it can be fairly said that they are disproportionately breaking the law.

    They continue to enforce laws to deliberately target minorities. I certainly can and will blame racism for that.
    Everyone needing a voter ID sounds like the opposite of racism to me. Maybe America has a different definition of racism than other English speaking countries?
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  12. #52
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    If black people were being turned away at the booth an ID to prove their identity, like I use myself, sounds like a pretty good way to combat that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
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  13. #53
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    It looks like that's happening already, the increase in arrested Irish is rather shocking. I didn't even think there were so many (non-plastic) Irish in America.
    Yes I realize ICE is have fun all over the place. My point was in regards to militias and where they congregate and it not in Boston looking for Irish or New York (or other large city) scouring the old ethnic neighborhoods looking for Russians, Romanians or Chinese...
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    If black people were being turned away at the booth an ID to prove their identity, like I use myself, sounds like a pretty good way to combat that.
    As if we would ever allow such Irish garbage like you to vote in our elections!

    (speaking as a son of disgusting Welsh immigrants)

    The fact is that they aren't. Black voting is up, in all polls, thank goodness. Everyone should vote really. The dems get salty they aren't voting for the right people (dems). Where things get interesting is when illegal immigrants vote. The invariably vote for the party willing to give them the most free stuff (dems) who then tell states that they are racist for requiring people (dem voters) to prove they are entitled to vote in order to vote. I can't imagine why this could be seen as dems seeking an unfair advantage at the ballot box as opposed reps just being disgusting racists. Oh wait...

  15. #55
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Racism in the US: Goodbye to the American Dream?

    Where things get interesting is when illegal immigrants vote.
    OK show some evidence where is the vast illegal immigrant vote? Really find it for me pretend I stupid. Your a self proclaimed lawyer show me your case.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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