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Thread: Recruiting Legions

  1. #1

    Default Recruiting Legions

    Ok so i dont really understand the new legion feature. When you build a legion's base do you just recruit a full legion(like a full stack army with 20 units)? Or is a legion one unit and you recruit troops to put into the legion units army? About what will legions cost?

    Just some questions, thanks for answers in advance
    Last edited by Jimexander the Mighty; January 17, 2007 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Reworded it to better understand

  2. #2

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    I'll let DVK answer that cos he's the one doing the coding.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  3. #3
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    There will be ten 'Roman Military Bases'...basically an AOR region.....where the 'Very Early Legionary' will become available in an Army barracks. This is a (game) pre-marian unit that represents a small window of time (105BC-34BC) between the actual Marian Reforms and the appearance of the named and numbered Legions that will have their own individual textures and banners. When the 'game activated' Marian Reforms occur, with an Imperial Palace built in a region of 'Italy' (but not Rome), these 'Very Early' Legionaries will disappear in favor of the 'Consular' or 'Republican' Legions (pre-Imperial). You'll then build a 'Legion' in one of the ten Bases (and there may be one or two different Legions available in that Base) that should probably consist of a 1st cohort, auxilia units (light infantry, archers) a General, and cavalry...and the rest the matching cohorts of that Legion. The unit cards are all different, so you'll know what units belong together even if there are several Legions available in that base.
    They are expensive, roughly 2000 per unit or so, starting in areas closer to Italy (but not in Italy), and they get more expensive the further away from Italy the base is. This is to depict the true added cost of maintaining a standing army around the world, especially when it's far away.
    After the Marian Reforms, you'll have to build these bases up until finally you can built the 'Roman Military Base' barracks...the last one in the building tree.
    You'll need an Imperial Palace and Royal Barracks to build it. Then the 'Imperial Legions' will appear in only that base. So one at a time, you have to build and build until you can recruit them all.
    The cost is high, and you have to build a lot of stuff, but Roma Surrectum is intended to be a meticulous, long-haul campaign; and hopefully, the Legions will appear at least somewhere closer to 105BC than they usually do in RTW.
    Because of the AOR system in this Mod, what and where you can build anything is very restricted...especially for the Romans. The reason is that they are very powerful...but in every case you'll most likely be fighting armies with greater numbers than your own. You might have 1200 men in your army up against 2000 in the enemy's.....and it will be close to an even match. Again, this is to depict a Roman military that was very organized, well-trained and disciplined, and very adaptive to changing situations on the battlefield; and able to win against far greater numbers most of the time. You could say that only climate, terrain, and idiotic leadership ever beat a Roman army.
    However, my philosophy in Roma Surrectum isn't to make it 'pushover easy' to win as the Romans (or anyone, really). You'll have 35 armies (unless you cheat and duplicate them, no, no, no!) to control the whole known world...and that's it. And you won't be able to build any of them in Italy, so much of your Empire will be wide open to invasion and rebel incursions anywhere where you haven't totally crushed your enemies. You'll have to retrain and reinforce your Legions where they were recruited, and from there. You can't build them anywhere else.
    So I guess if you play Rome, you'd better be in it for the long haul. You've got 480 years.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    DVK,
    This is really interesting stuff. So do you recruit a whole legion in one go or is it a question of recruiting each unit within the legion separately? And the cost is 2000 per unit? Wow.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  5. #5
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Many of these Legions, if you read their history, were in service for hundreds of years. Heck, some of them levied in the times of Augustus and Caesar later became Eastern Empire Legions when the West fell, so may have been around in some form for a thousand years. So the intention is that once that Legio is created, it'll be there as long as you play.
    And yes, you recruit one 'cohort' at a time.....expensive, yes. But with '0' turn recruitment, if you can afford it, you could build the Legion in maybe three turns. From then on it's just reinforcing, retraining, replacing auxilia and cavalry, etc.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  6. #6

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Thats the greatest idea ever thought of in a mod and THANK YOU!

    P.S.Do you know when the mod will be realised

  7. #7

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    So you ll be responsable for one of the greatest experiences in playing as the romans then
    I dont understand very well though,could you try to explain better,if you have time is clear.As I understood you ll be able to recruit let's say the Alaudae legion,in which city I dont know but in a predetermined one,and this legion is the first cohort right?Then you ll get all the auxiliarie troops together with the other cohorts right,and these will be just regular troops.They re going to be 20 units??And the legion isn't really the first cohort maybe I confuse these to different things,however can you tell me if there is a difference in these to two terms.
    You re really good,and you know history very well.You know latin too .We can expect only good things from you.


    xhaxhi Skenderbeu

  8. #8

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Can you explain it more detailed iam sure i dont understand it.
    A legion is 5,000?
    A cohort is under 1000 ?
    Can you give a excample of this 3 turn to build a legion, when units usely have 80 to 100 emn per unit.

    thank you

  9. #9

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by swhunter View Post
    Can you give a excample of this 3 turn to build a legion, when units usely have 80 to 100 emn per unit.
    0 turn recruitment.
    What do we mean by patriotism in the context of our times? I venture to suggest that what we mean is a sense of national responsibility ... a patriotism which is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime.

  10. #10
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    OK, I'll try. As far as the Historical numbers and makeup of a Legion, go here:

    http://www.redrampant.com/

    As far as in this mod, the 'cohort' of legionaries will consist of 30 men if you play on 'normal' settings. 60 on 'Large'. 120 on 'Huge' (I think). So if you had one 1st cohort, and 19 cohorts...you'd have at most 2400 men.

    The Legion in Roma Surrectum I would build would consist of:

    1 General
    2 Archers of some kind
    2 Legionary Cavalry
    1 First Cohort (carries the Legion Eagle)
    8-10 Cohorts
    the rest, light Auxilia or Auxilia Infantry, onager, whatever.

    So a 'Consular' Legion will probably cost you 25-35000 denarii to build. An 'Imperial' Legion....35-55000. So even though there is '0' turn recruitment, you better be rich beyond belief to spam a Legion!

    The "First Cohort" is just acohort like any other, except they were historically made up of the best men in the Legion, and had the distinct honor of carrying the Legionary Eagle. But they aren't THE Legion, they're just part of it. They also traditionally 'anchored' the right side of the battle formation (looking from the back), and were looked to (because they carried the Eagle) for guidance and direction on the battlefield. Various horns and flags were used to relay orders, etc.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  11. #11

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Lol this is so ultra- cool
    i Love Games with this...you know..."We come from x, and we are proud of it."
    maybe you'll know what i mean when you use the Spartan unit Phalanx in RTW

  12. #12

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Ok i think i have it.
    So will there be at least a few legions for the romans at this time?

    and to make it balanced with other other factions?

    Some more or less army stacks?

    One thing i do like is haveing units ready for defence and invasion if need be.
    Some modds you have to wait allmost 50 to hundred years before any real fighting takes place. And of course we all do enjoy buidling our empires as we go on.

    When does the game start ? 270 b.c. to 100 a.d. or what?

    thanks sorry i have alot of questions.
    Maybe i just need to wait for it to come out!

    In most modds i love to set my Preferances for units to 100
    if barbarians or phal. it goes to 150 men per unit.
    2 things! Love bigger battles more historical i guess.

    another question sir.
    Will changing the grass settings change game play?
    i have 9600 game card! a good pend. 4 .
    most modds i have no trouble will i still see the FX in the clouds?
    and the units? Even if unit is placed on high?

    On Bi what will we have to do to use it .
    I almost dont care about the units crossing ruinning rivers that move over
    10 miles per hour. most men would be sweep away!
    Or the feezeing cold!

    thanks for the help, advice and info,
    you have something cool going here!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by swhunter View Post
    Ok i think i have it.
    So will there be at least a few legions for the romans at this time?
    Not sure exactly what you mean. At the game start their will of course be none.
    When does the game start ? 270 b.c. to 100 a.d. or what?
    280BC-200AD
    Will changing the grass settings change game play?
    No, but having no grass improves computer preformance if your computers struggling.
    What do we mean by patriotism in the context of our times? I venture to suggest that what we mean is a sense of national responsibility ... a patriotism which is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime.

  14. #14
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    I know exactly what you mean, ZorboZ.....so did Flavius Josephus. That's why I quoted him in my sig...."which seems to them a signal of dominion, and an omen that they shall conquer all against whom they march....."
    Last edited by dvk901; January 18, 2007 at 03:44 PM.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  15. #15

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by swhunter
    Ok i think i have it.
    So will there be at least a few legions for the romans at this time?

    Not sure exactly what you mean. At the game start their will of course be none.

    Quote:

    What i am saying is some standing armys?
    like 4,000 men ? to protect its citys in each faction.
    encase of other factions attacking too eary.
    Haveing a few stacks in their kingdom or empire.

  16. #16
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    There are 'sufficient' troops to protect yourself.....but money is scare at first, so no faction starts right off attacking you full scale with big stacks....except perhaps in isolated cases where the player will have to decide whether to defend or cut loses and run.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  17. #17

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by dvk901 View Post
    I know exactly what you mean, ZorboZ.....so did Flavius Josephus. That's why I quoted him in my sig...."which seems to them a signal of dominion, and an omen that they shall conquer all against whom they march....."
    heh,nice to hear that one of the Devs of the Mod feels like me

  18. #18

    Icon6 Re: Recruiting Legions

    Are there named or numbered legions of pre-marian troops (hastati, principes, triarii)?

    I thought I saw it in one of the screenshots, but I'm not sure.

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  19. #19
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    There are three distinct pre-marian Republican Legions. Republican Legion Rome, which can only be recruited in Rome, and Republican legions I & II. One can be recruited in Italy, and Two in the AOR bases outside Italy. I had 12 at one time, but decided it was very confusing and offered minimum advantage. Also, we're so short of slots in DMB for units that I had to remove some of the variations I originally had for them. The added advantage is that you get all the Republican units at the same time (Hastati, Principe, Triarri), so you can assemble a more historical Roman pre-marian Legion. And, a 'Very Early Legion' becomes available later on to replace them....Republican Legions I & II VE (for Very Early)...which sort of span a vague little known period from just before the Marian Reforms to around 34BC. It isn't really known exactly when the Roman military switched from the 'Maniple' configuration of Hastati, Principe and Triari to the 'Cohorts', which basically were comprised of soldiers who were all the same. I surmise that their capabilities were probably much like the Principes, with slightly better armor perhaps, and sincerely doubt that the Romans switched 'overnite' to a totally different Legion configuration just because Marius created a paid, standing army. So these 'Very Early' Legions represent a transition from the 'maniples' to the 'cohorts', and then eventually to the Marian Legions that were named and numbered and paid soldiers.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  20. #20

    Default Re: Recruiting Legions

    Hi
    What did you think of the 3 time changes in the roman empire?
    the eary romans, then Marian changes, which happened around 210 b.c.
    then the late romans by August.

    This is seen in EB. I was just thinking not suggesting!

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